Dr Todd Lee - what do you think?

[bananafeet]

From what I can understand from his videos he recommends the TRT test, HGH and masteron due to the lack of ancillaries needed.

That's why he doesn't like EQ or Decca because each compound makes it more difficult to manage.

There seemed to be some contention between primobolan vs masteron. His idea was that masteron is resistant to 3a reductase so is an anabolic DHT. Whereas primobolan is an anti estrogen which complicates dosing and side effect control. So in his mind at least it's a relatively sid effect free anabolic.

I can see where he is coming from in a mass treatment approach that simplifies dosing by removing possible side effects of other compounds. (High/Low E2, prolactin, progesterone activity, erythropoesis etc)

That's my understanding after watching quite a few of his videos.

 

[Eddie.]

Regarding his suggested HRT "stack" i'd like to say my opinion. This is just another bs coming out of him. When we talk about HRT we mean using biointentical hormones, masteron is a drug for female breast cancer, any other than test and GH and you can call it a mini permacycle.

I don't understand how some of you think that using masteron for life it's ok when we refer strictly to HRT and a better health outcome.

A succesful HRT protocol means having your biointentical hormones in check. This can be done by using only Test, preferably enough to be at the top of the range or slightly above, a couple IU's of HGH and DHEA + Pregnenolone to stay in range too because with time they tend to get down, otherwise a low dose of HCG to keep the neurosteroids going.

If you need AI or mast to control your estrogens in HRT then it's not HRT, it's a cycle and if anyone needs AI with eg 140-175mg of test then he needs to address this with ways other than taking an extra drug.

HRT is something for life, you need to keep it simple and consistent. Most of us here do silly things, we take big dosages of different drugs but the goal is different here, we don't look to optimize health, our priority is to gain as much muscle without compromising health TOO much. These are 2 different things.

 

[BabaJagga]

our priority is to gain as much muscle without compromising health TOO much. These are 2 different things.

and veins, dont forget the pipeline

 

[Irish28]

Probably don’t need aas outside of test for this. If you want the best long term, it’s probably beneficial to leave a lot of other compounds alone. Especially if you want to consider longevity or oxidative stress.
Optimizing trt? Is your test replaced? Yes is your estrogen in a good place? Yes. Ok the trt is optimal

Should I be investigating hgh as part of the ultimate trt protocol?

 

[Irish28]

Regarding his suggested HRT "stack" i'd like to say my opinion. This is just another bs coming out of him. When we talk about HRT we mean using biointentical hormones, masteron is a drug for female breast cancer, any other than test and GH and you can call it a mini permacycle.

I don't understand how some of you think that using masteron for life it's ok when we refer strictly to HRT and a better health outcome.

A succesful HRT protocol means having your biointentical hormones in check. This can be done by using only Test, preferably enough to be at the top of the range or slightly above, a couple IU's of HGH and DHEA + Pregnenolone to stay in range too because with time they tend to get down, otherwise a low dose of HCG to keep the neurosteroids going.

If you need AI or mast to control your estrogens in HRT then it's not HRT, it's a cycle and if anyone needs AI with eg 140-175mg of test then he needs to address this with ways other than taking an extra drug.

HRT is something for life, you need to keep it simple and consistent. Most of us here do silly things, we take big dosages of different drugs but the goal is different here, we don't look to optimize health, our priority is to gain as much muscle without compromising health TOO much. These are 2 different things.

I just found out about DHEA and pregn from a vigorous Steve podcast.

As part of a long term trt protocol that I am on what dose do you recommend?

 

[Eddie.]

I just found out about DHEA and pregn from a vigorous Steve podcast.

As part of a long term trt protocol that I am on what dose do you recommend?

You'll have to address that via bloodwork, others need 100mg and some others 25mg. Don't go blind because if you're already high you may exceed the normal range and feel worse, agitated etc.

From the time you seek balance long term bloodwork should be your primary guide and then assess how you feel. For example, if your DHEA is in low-mid range and you start supplementing and feel good, then success. If you can't tolerate it then throw it in the trash. There's no need to endure something just to raise your levels to X point.

My DHEA on bloods was mid-low, i started with 25mg per day and after 6 months it went up, above the mid of the reference range. It goes well so far.

For pregnenolone unfortunately i can't test it in my country, as in most EU countries but decided to start with 10mg nonetheless. Without knowing what my levels were, i can tell you it really messed me up. It's literally the single compound, supplement, drug that gave me side effects. After 3 days i start to feel depressed with anhedonia and no motivation at all. I made 3 seperate efforts to implement it, tried simple, micronized, morning, evening..nothing worked on me so i threw it all in the bin.

 

[Slowww]

Should I be investigating hgh as part of the ultimate trt protocol?

This is up to you as it regards to what you want in terms of outcomes and blood work. hGH isn’t really something that is considered good for longevity but can increase quality of life. It’s one of the peptides for legitimate hormone replacement that I wouldn’t write off

 

[Eddie.]

This is up to you as it regards to what you want in terms of outcomes and blood work.

I wouldn't consider it only because he has mentioned in his other thread that his baseline IGF-1 is 250, which i think it's quite impressive for 43 yo.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Should I be investigating hgh as part of the ultimate trt protocol?

TRT is TRT

Get that straightened out first and while you're at it, read up more about GH.

Might be something to consider down the line but not a game changer or part of some ridiculous sounding "ultimate TRT protocol."

 

[Irish28]

TRT is TRT

Get that straightened out first and while you're at it, read up more about GH.

Might be something to consider down the line but not a game changer or part of some ridiculous sounding "ultimate TRT protocol."

I didn't mean to make it sound ridiculous.....I'm trying to say if testosterone levels are one component of an older man trying to optimize his hormones....is it the opinion on the folks on this board that as part of that optimization older gents should also be paying attention to hgh.

 

[Irish28]

This is up to you as it regards to what you want in terms of outcomes and blood work. hGH isn’t really something that is considered good for longevity but can increase quality of life. It’s one of the peptides for legitimate hormone replacement that I wouldn’t write

This is up to you as it regards to what you want in terms of outcomes and blood work. hGH isn’t really something that is considered good for longevity but can increase quality of life. It’s one of the peptides for legitimate hormone replacement that I wouldn’t write off

Thanks man. I'm reading what I can about it at the moment.
There is definitely two schools of thought that yes..."quality" of life will increase but also the "quantity" of life you have will be impacted (e.g. it could shorten lifespan)

 

[Irish28]

You'll have to address that via bloodwork, others need 100mg and some others 25mg. Don't go blind because if you're already high you may exceed the normal range and feel worse, agitated etc.

From the time you seek balance long term bloodwork should be your primary guide and then assess how you feel. For example, if your DHEA is in low-mid range and you start supplementing and feel good, then success. If you can't tolerate it then throw it in the trash. There's no need to endure something just to raise your levels to X point.

My DHEA on bloods was mid-low, i started with 25mg per day and after 6 months it went up, above the mid of the reference range. It goes well so far.

For pregnenolone unfortunately i can't test it in my country, as in most EU countries but decided to start with 10mg nonetheless. Without knowing what my levels were, i can tell you it really messed me up. It's literally the single compound, supplement, drug that gave me side effects. After 3 days i start to feel depressed with anhedonia and no motivation at all. I made 3 seperate efforts to implement it, tried simple, micronized, morning, evening..nothing worked on me so i threw it all in the bin.

Thanks very much for your detailed reply man. Really appreciate it.

I'll have a look at the available blood tests here I can order privately and see if I can find a test do Dhea.

 

[Irish28]

I am on TRT, sure, but we aren't talking about TRT.

He's approach to ALL cycling is to use low/moderate test and high masteron. It just doesn't work like that for me. I think I was using 350-525mg test a week and upwards of 700-980mg mast e weekly and just not seeing the results. Once I increased the test to an equal amount of masteron I started to grow.

I did the same cycle with test/primo and test/eq and made great progress through all the dosage ranges.

It just didn't work for me with mast bruh.

Thanks for the reply man and yes....i can confirm because I just listened to Dr Todd Lees latest show today that he does indeed say
Once you have maxed out your testosterone that triggers max estrogen with no sides (adds in hgh at this point) then you are indeed DONE with your testosterone dose....

From here on our your total anabolic load WILL ONLY INCREASE if you add masteron.

 

[Jaxino]

Been listening to him for a few months ...
Some take away points.

- inject daily
- testosterone is only used to drive up estrogen
- estrogen is the main driver for igf-1 production

- health igf-1 range for trt fellas (like myself ) is 300


What do you guys think of his ideas?

It's entirely misleading, and I would recommend directing your time and attention toward more credible educators.

 

[Jaxino]

Been listening to him for a few months ...
Some take away points.

- inject daily
- testosterone is only used to drive up estrogen
- estrogen is the main driver for igf-1 production

- health igf-1 range for trt fellas (like myself ) is 300


What do you guys think of his ideas?

These days, people tend to overcomplicate everything:

• Administer the highest tolerable dose of HGH from the very first cycle — yes, even generics. A full vial daily is ideal; none of that diluted 3–6 IU nonsense.
• Begin with 250mg of Test E and incrementally increase the dosage only when progress begins to plateau.
• Once your testosterone dosage approaches the 1g threshold, consider introducing compounds such as Equipoise or Primobolan.
• Conduct comprehensive blood work every four weeks, and incorporate Arimidex if estrogen levels require regulation.

Frankly, the pharmacology of performance enhancement is remarkably straightforward, it only becomes complicated when misinformation prevails.

Anyone advising you to run low testosterone is simply uninformed and should not be taken seriously.

 

[Slowww]

Thanks man. I'm reading what I can about it at the moment.
There is definitely two schools of thought that yes..."quality" of life will increase but also the "quantity" of life you have will be impacted (e.g. it could shorten lifespan)

Well I mean first does your blood panel merit it’s use at all?
I think those trade offs are not necessarily implied in strict hormone replacement therapy.
Personally I run (much) more than I need because I don’t need any hrt medically , and I blast gear so that is where I have to logically decide whether the cost associated is worth the benefits. In your case if you actually need it as HRT and don’t abuse it, I really can’t imagine you will have to deal with the sane concerns. I’m saying this because you talk about hrt but you don’t really seem like you want those things for hrt haha. I don’t mean this with any judgement btw it’s just if you go past hrt then you have a different set of concerns

 

[lukiss96]

Regarding his suggested HRT "stack" i'd like to say my opinion. This is just another bs coming out of him. When we talk about HRT we mean using biointentical hormones, masteron is a drug for female breast cancer, any other than test and GH and you can call it a mini permacycle.

I don't understand how some of you think that using masteron for life it's ok when we refer strictly to HRT and a better health outcome.

A succesful HRT protocol means having your biointentical hormones in check. This can be done by using only Test, preferably enough to be at the top of the range or slightly above, a couple IU's of HGH and DHEA + Pregnenolone to stay in range too because with time they tend to get down, otherwise a low dose of HCG to keep the neurosteroids going.

If you need AI or mast to control your estrogens in HRT then it's not HRT, it's a cycle and if anyone needs AI with eg 140-175mg of test then he needs to address this with ways other than taking an extra drug.

HRT is something for life, you need to keep it simple and consistent. Most of us here do silly things, we take big dosages of different drugs but the goal is different here, we don't look to optimize health, our priority is to gain as much muscle without compromising health TOO much. These are 2 different things.

While I agree with most of what you wrote, except for AI part. Some people can't help but to use some anastrozole here and there (like 0.25mg every once in a while, not 1mg+ per week). Besides TRT for most people starts at about 100mg/week and ends up at 150mg/week, while 125mg/week seems to be the most optimal.

A small amount of AI is better than mast or add ons any day.

 

[Eddie.]

While I agree with most of what you wrote, except for AI part. Some people can't help but to use some anastrozole here and there (like 0.25mg every once in a while, not 1mg+ per week).

Yes i won't argue on this because there's always outliers. I've seen ppl on 1gr test only no AI and e2 of 40 but 99% of people won't need AI on ~140mg test if the rest of boxes are in check.

Besides TRT for most people starts at about 100mg/week and ends up at 150mg/week, while 125mg/week seems to be the most optimal.

For myself i haven't tried to go that low but with 200 i had 930ng/dl so i guess with 125-140 I'd have 500-600 which i don't think it's optimal.

Although i believe when we talk about TRT and not cruise phase or whatever, it would be great if at some point as a community start talking about ng/dl instead of milligrams. We could all agree on a certain range, which in the end translates to different dosage for each one.

A small amount of AI is better than mast or add ons any day.

I definitely agree

 

[lukiss96]

it would be great if at some point as a community start talking about ng/dl instead of milligrams

Definitely, and here comes in the individuality factor in.

I fully understand your personal choice and response.

I believe 600-800ng/dl is the optimal range for a true TRT, however if someone feels better at say 1000ng/dl it is fully justifiable to use more T.

If we talk about ng/dl more it would be awesome. But perhaps this forum is not yet ready as it not mainly TRT oriented place.

Personally, I have experienced 800+ ng/dl at 125mg/week of Testosterone undecanoate and I felt pretty damn good.

However we must consider FT and SHBG among other things and possible health issues of said individual before we can apply that to them. Overall, it is very difficult to do one size fits all method here. I believe we must start low and adjust is the best approach to find a TRT protocol that works well. It takes time and patience.

 

[Irish28]

Well I mean first does your blood panel merit it’s use at all?
I think those trade offs are not necessarily implied in strict hormone replacement therapy.
Personally I run (much) more than I need because I don’t need any hrt medically , and I blast gear so that is where I have to logically decide whether the cost associated is worth the benefits. In your case if you actually need it as HRT and don’t abuse it, I really can’t imagine you will have to deal with the sane concerns. I’m saying this because you talk about hrt but you don’t really seem like you want those things for hrt haha. I don’t mean this with any judgement btw it’s just if you go past hrt then you have a different set of concerns

Appreciate your input mate.
Yea I guess you are on the money....i spent years feeling like dog shit so trt has just brought me up to levels that "normal Jo blow" should be at....and now I'm thinking we'll there must be a grey area between 500mg test a week cycling and 150mg hormone replacement therapy that could get me to an place where I feel and look even better!

I'm not of the opinion that if a person goes 1mg over a certain dose he's instantly blasting gear and a juice head and a bodybuilder if that makes sense?

I've seen vigorous Steve call it HRT-plus lol
It's not quite blasting gear but it's definitely not "replacement hum drum doses"

I'm new to Pharmacy side of things so just researching researching researching at the moment.
Thought I found a GEM in Dr Todd but there are many fellas saying take his advice with pinch of salt