Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

I think your dna is broken your ancestors survived by hiding in a hole and this is programed in you!
You are wrong every couple of years,some times more some times less Russia tries to invade europe its how it always has been .
If Europe is weak they get fucked they get they're wife's raped , house destroyed , money stolen and possibly even killed .
Even when my country alowed russian army to pass they did the same .
So no there is no way to talk this out i don't expect you to understand because your dna is weak and you think siding with the agressor will land you favors and you are to dumb to form your own opinion so you listen to general fuckwith or colonel sausage on the internet to form ideas for you that are aligned with your weak dna.

My DNA is from the war torn borderlands of England, Scotland and travelers from Denmark.

I'd show you quickly what your teeth looked like laying on the pavement for the insult of questioning it.

I like to fight anyway.

I'm trying to tell you this war is not to help the ukranian people. It's to enrich western banks and allow them to plunder ukranian resources when it's all over.

You want to wave your dick in the wind and die for the people who's intentions are to rape your country and toss your traditions and culture in the trash, then be my guest. Be a useful idiot.

We'll just agree to disagree.
 
My DNA is from the war torn borderlands of England, Scotland and travelers from Denmark.

I'd show you quickly what your teeth looked like laying on the pavement for the insult of questioning it.

I like to fight anyway.

I'm trying to tell you this war is not to help the ukranian people. It's to enrich western banks and allow them to plunder ukranian resources when it's all over.

You want to wave your dick in the wind and die for the people who's intentions are to rape your country and toss your traditions and culture in the trash, then be my guest. Be a useful idiot.

We'll just agree to disagree.
War torn borderland where your ancestors where hiding like Rats!
Ukrainian people did not invade Russia !
You can side with the aggressor as much as you want but that wont get respect from me you soy boy !
 
Well based on Russias initial attack, it seems their goal was to take Kyiv and thus basically all of Ukraine. That did not unfold the way they expected, so they had to move the goal posts to save face.

Lukashenko had shown some map earlier in the war that implied Russia was planning to link to transnistria in Moldova, that failed to happen thus far as well.

I can't disagree.
Obviously Russian strategy has shifted more than once so far.

But I'm not convinced that thier objective was ever to occupy all of Ukraine. Maybe the parts where they can get enough local native support for sure. But I don't think they had any reason to think they'd get any real support west of Kiev, or even the Dnieper river for that matter.

It just doesn't make sense that they'd try to "occupy" a large area where the residents would be the base of an insurgency.

For the record im not american, so im not speaking some biased pro-biden shit, im just looking at whats happening. I do however think Russia has no business being in Ukraine, and i think Putin over estimated the capabilities of his military.

I'm not sure that's the case either. As Putin has chosen to use less than 20% or less of his available military capabilities.

He seems to me like he wants to halt the expansion of NATO in Ukraine under some kind of terms that leaves Russia open to do business in Europe with regard to energy trading.

Otherwise he could've simply bombed all Ukraine into the stone age and walked away already.


You can point to his troop numbers and lay blame there, but that merely proves my point, he (or his generals) thought they could achieve their targets with the allotted troops, only to discover they had over estimated their own capabilities.

As i stated earlier, putin can throw a lot more troops at this, much like Stalin did in WW2, im sure youve seen the massive losses of life the soviets incurred in WW2 as Stalins strategy was to send as many poor SOBs into the fray as he could muster. Putin has yet to do that, it worked for Stalin, but the assymetrical loss of life was astounding. Could Putins regime survive that kind of loss of Russian lives, politically? Im not sure, and i get the feeling he doesnt want to find out either. Im sure if Russia sent all the troops they could muster they would storm Ukraine by sheer numbers, but it would be at a substantial human cost to Russia and that loss may unravel Putins grip on power.

I really can't say what thier intentions are and I'm just speculating.

It does not make any sense at all that he wanted to "occupy all of Ukraine" then attempted to "conquer other countries".

He knows he doesn't have the capability to do that even if he wants to. I don't see any evidence anywhere that was his goal and his actions certainly don't point in that direction.

As far as regime change in Russia?
Let's be realistic, that's not going to happen. Russia has plenty food, fuel and resources to take care of it's people.

Europe by contrast, does not and will soon be hungry and cold. I think we'll see governments in Europe change first and even Joe Biden is more likely to get tossed out on his ass over this than Putin.


Also hughinn, im curious to hear your thoughts on all the recent deaths of prominent Russians. Whats going on with that? Why are all these prominent russians dying from suicides and murder-suicides? Somethings going on internally in Russia, and i dont think its a mental health issue.

I'm not sure what to make of it.
It could be the Russian version of the Clinton "suicides" or it could simply be anguish because the US government has siezed alot of wealth from many prominent Russian people and they're in despair.

Right now I just don't have enough information to draw any conclusion of my own.
 
War torn borderland where your ancestors where hiding like Rats!
Ukrainian people did not invade Russia !
You can side with the aggressor as much as you want but that wont get respect from me you soy boy !

I'm actually siding against the aggressors.

The US could have prevented this whole thing easily with simple low cost diplomacy and should have.
They could've saved Ukraine from war and still helped the ukranian people without provoking Russia into war.

I'm well north of forty years old and don't get all puffed up and ready to condone violence and turmoil just because my dick gets hard.
That's you snot nosed twenty something's idiots that think you know it all.

Nobody has ever conquered my people. From the English to the Roman empire. But we know what it's like to be on the receiving end of an ass kicking too.
There's no reason to throw your life away if you don't have to.

I'm not willing to throw my life or yours away for a bunch of greedy, rich globalist bastards that hate us both.

But you do whatever you want
 
@NorthMich @malfeasance @Big_paul

Any of you resident DNC propoganda guzzling blue pill addicts got any coherent rebuttals here?
Rebuttal to what? Most of what you posted, for once in over thirty pages of thread, appeared to be basically factual, with a few reasonable inferences drawn to opinions, none of which I strongly disagree with. You even left room for some factual areas in which you might be wrong.

Why the "DNC propaganda guzzling blue pill addicts" nonsense?
 
But I'm not convinced that thier objective was ever to occupy all of Ukraine. Maybe the parts where they can get enough local native support for sure. But I don't think they had any reason to think they'd get any real support west of Kiev, or even the Dnieper river for that matter.

It just doesn't make sense that they'd try to "occupy" a large area where the residents would be the base of an insurgency.
I don't think this was every his goal, either, but capturing the capital quickly and with a multi pronged attack would have gotten him to his goal a lot more quickly. The Russians woefully underestimated the Ukrainians' will and capability.

Given the "mobilization" recently, I think Putin learned his stinging lesson and is determined to put his learning to good use moving forward.
 
Rebuttal to what? Most of what you posted, for once in over thirty pages of thread, appeared to be basically factual, with a few reasonable inferences drawn to opinions, none of which I strongly disagree with. You even left room for some factual areas in which you might be wrong.

Why the "DNC propaganda guzzling blue pill addicts" nonsense?

The DNC blue comment was directed at the same people who claimed Donald Trump's sanctions on China was "hurting Americans and our allies" are the same ones silent about Joe Bidens sanctions actually hurting Americans and our allies.

It was rude the way I put it though.

My apologies
 
I don't think this was every his goal, either, but capturing the capital quickly and with a multi pronged attack would have gotten him to his goal a lot more quickly. The Russians woefully underestimated the Ukrainians' will and capability.

Given the "mobilization" recently, I think Putin learned his stinging lesson and is determined to put his learning to good use moving forward.
Ukraine is training 1 million highly motivated young man !
Putin would need 5 million at least to have a chance and i don't think he will keep territory.
Whit this mobilization official numbers say 300k but its more like 1 mill poorly equipped unmotivated soldier .
He needs a lot more because he is the attacking force .
 
I don't think this was every his goal, either, but capturing the capital quickly and with a multi pronged attack would have gotten him to his goal a lot more quickly. The Russians woefully underestimated the Ukrainians' will and capability.

Given the "mobilization" recently, I think Putin learned his stinging lesson and is determined to put his learning to good use moving forward.

The recent "mobilization" is a good point.

It looks like Russia has more or less dug in heels in a few select spots and is merely happy to repel ukranian assaults effectively but economically with minimal troops while they seem to be regrouping behind the lines for what may be a knockout punch.

Those missile and drone strikes our media howl's was "non military civilian areas and acts of terrorism" when looked at objectively was aimed at key infrastructure and power generation capabilities. As well as taking out 80% of ukranian air defenses according to Ukraine whose now yelling desperately for more.

With the power out in large parts of Ukraine and winter coming on, Russia doesn't seem to be in a hurry and thinks time is on their side.

A betting man might wager as soon as the ground freezes and the Ukrainian regime is facing huge logistical challenges and energy shortages along with the rest of Europe, that's when Russia will throw it's next combination of punches and go for the knockout. Possibly unleashing it's bomber fleet for the first time since ukranian air defenses are severely depleted.

It's unfortunate that Joe Biden isn't calling for a ceasefire immediately and getting everyone around a negotiating table to stop this nonsense.
 
I'm actually siding against the aggressors.

The US could have prevented this whole thing easily with simple low cost diplomacy and should have.
They could've saved Ukraine from war and still helped the ukranian people without provoking Russia into war.

I'm well north of forty years old and don't get all puffed up and ready to condone violence and turmoil just because my dick gets hard.
That's you snot nosed twenty something's idiots that think you know it all.

Nobody has ever conquered my people. From the English to the Roman empire. But we know what it's like to be on the receiving end of an ass kicking too.
There's no reason to throw your life away if you don't have to.

I'm not willing to throw my life or yours away for a bunch of greedy, rich globalist bastards that hate us both.

But you do whatever you want
Your wrong again thats not how Russia works and a little diplomatic talk would not have prevented this .
Putin said it clearly Nato was not supposed to expand east he wants them out !
He wants them out so he can take land from said countries in time or instal puppet leaders.
Its what they do they gather strength and attack.
If they take Ukraine now once they get strong again and rebuild, Finland is next ….
Norway sweden georgia moldova and so on !
Yeah the USA is not perfect and maybe is more broken now then ever but still the alternatives are worse much worse !
Usa is terorist state it terorizes other countries for they're resources geographic advantages and so on.
Russia terrorizes its own people so the top can prosper and Russia tends to think Baltic states ,east Europe is his people becouse it was in the past for a sort time .
They know this and thats why everyone is helping Ukraine im sorry if you don't get it !
Scum bags are profiting of war thats horrible but thats not the biggest problem now because there is need for weapons but this has always been the case .
 
Ukraine is training 1 million highly motivated young man !
Putin would need 5 million at least to have a chance and i don't think he will keep territory.
Whit this mobilization official numbers say 300k but its more like 1 mill poorly equipped unmotivated soldier .
He needs a lot more because he is the attacking force .

Sorry Pete, but I don't think you're numbers look reasonable.

Russia has never used more than about 20% of their ground forces, no bombing fleets and very little of it's air force.

In the beginning had ukranian forces about 500k to 700k depending on the source.

Russia was 120k-150k depending on the source.

It's difficult to get any real and honest casualty counts from either side, but ukranian officials claimed losing 200 men per day. Do the math and it's likely Ukraine has around 150k killed and probably 200k wounded just so far.

The estimates on the Russian side are 16k on the low side and 80k on the high side.

The numbers don't agree with your assessment. If course, I don't think anything coming from either side is entirely accurate at this point, but it obvious that Ukraine is losing many more men than Russia in these exchanges
 
Sorry Pete, but I don't think you're numbers look reasonable.

Russia has never used more than about 20% of their ground forces, no bombing fleets and very little of it's air force.

In the beginning had ukranian forces about 500k to 700k depending on the source.

Russia was 120k-150k depending on the source.

It's difficult to get any real and honest casualty counts from either side, but ukranian officials claimed losing 200 men per day. Do the math and it's likely Ukraine has around 150k killed and probably 200k wounded just so far.

The estimates on the Russian side are 16k on the low side and 80k on the high side.

The numbers don't agree with your assessment. If course, I don't think anything coming from either side is entirely accurate at this point, but it obvious that Ukraine is losing many more men than Russia in these exchanges
Most young man joined Ukrainian army and are now finishing training they're president said they will have 1 mill man ready shortly and this was a month ago so they are about ready to fight .
Everybody and they're uncle want to fight the Russians they just need extensive training with Nato weapons .
 
Your wrong again thats not how Russia works and a little diplomatic talk would not have prevented this .

Not true. Diplomacy definitely could have prevented this as Russian security concerns haven't changed in decades.


Putin said it clearly Nato was not supposed to expand east he wants them out !
He wants them out so he can take land from said countries in time or instal puppet leaders.

Puppet leaders?
Like the US state department installed in Georgia with Mikheil Saakashvili? The guy was installed president of Georgia after a US coup and is a straight up state department asset.
He started the Russian Georgia war and then after getting run out of Georgia for corruption he was installed the mayor of Odessa in Ukraine after the 2014 US coup in Ukraine.
You want to keep talking about puppet government?



Its what they do they gather strength and attack.
If they take Ukraine now once they get strong again and rebuild, Finland is next ….
Norway sweden georgia moldova and so on !

That's ridiculous.
You say one hand "Ukraine is winning" and the Russian army is a joke.
Then on the other you claim we should be worried about them taking all of Europe.
Get your story straight.

Because your coming off as incoherent at this point.

There's no evidence whatsoever that Russia has any desire to "take over" any of those places.
And even if it tried, it would have to fight an armed insurgency from now on in every single nation it conquered.

No way that's even remotely possible.


Yeah the USA is not perfect and maybe is more broken now then ever but still the alternatives are worse much worse !
Usa is terorist state it terorizes other countries for they're resources geographic advantages and so on.

Ok, we agree here.
I want my country to stop doing that shit.

Russia terrorizes its own people so the top can prosper and Russia tends to think Baltic states ,east Europe is his people becouse it was in the past for a sort time .

Like I said, not going to happen


They know this and thats why everyone is helping Ukraine im sorry if you don't get it !
Scum bags are profiting of war thats horrible but thats not the biggest problem now because there is need for weapons but this has always been the case .

If you agree Scum bags profiting from war is the problem.
How in the fuck can you say More war is the solution?
 
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Most young man joined Ukrainian army and are now finishing training they're president said they will have 1 mill man ready shortly and this was a month ago so they are about ready to fight .
Everybody and they're uncle want to fight the Russians they just need extensive training with Nato weapons .

Such a shame that an entire nations young men's lives will be spent so that a few rich people can get much richer.

I hope the madness can stop and those young men can go home to their families and raise their children instead of throw thier lives away for the benifit of the globalist imperial ambitions of a few wealthy people
 
Russia has never used more than about 20% of their ground forces, no bombing fleets and very little of it's air force.

In the beginning had ukranian forces about 500k to 700k depending on the source.

Russia was 120k-150k depending on the source.

It's difficult to get any real and honest casualty counts from either side, but ukranian officials claimed losing 200 men per day. Do the math and it's likely Ukraine has around 150k killed and probably 200k wounded just so far.

The estimates on the Russian side are 16k on the low side and 80k on the high side.
Where are you getting this from? What is your source/sources? Ive seen lots of conflicting info,but i am sceptical of everything i see about the war.

At 200/day the math doesnt hit 150k.

Why trust ukraine officials report of casualties? I maybe incorrectly assume ukraine would inflate casualty#s to get more aid while russia would deflate to appear strong.
 
Not true. Diplomacy definitely could have prevented this as Russian security concerns haven't changed in decades.




Puppet leaders?
Like the US state department installed in Georgia with Mikheil Saakashvili? The guy was installed president of Georgia after a US coup and is a straight up state department asset.
He started the Russian Georgia war and then after getting run out of Georgia for corruption he was installed the mayor of Odessa in Ukraine after the 2014 US coup in Ukraine.
You want to keep talking about puppet government?





That's ridiculous.
You say one hand "Ukraine is winning" and the Russian army is a joke.
Then on the other you claim we should be worried about them taking all of Europe.
Get your story straight.

Because your coming off as incoherent at this point.

There's no evidence whatsoever that Russia has any desire to "take over" any of those places.
And even if it tried, it would have to fight an armed insurgency from now on in every single nation it conquered.

No way that's even remotely possible.




Ok, we agree here.
I want my country to stop doing that shit.



Like I said, not going to happen




If you agree Scum bags profiting from war is the problem.
How in the fuck can you say More war is the solution?
Yeah but its what Russia does its proven by history . There is no other way but to fight them i live 200 km from Ukraine thats why i feel different about the war!
 
Hugh the whole prevent NATO expansion because we feel threatened argument for the aggression by Russia seems bogus as fuck. Finalnds now joining NATO, in resoonse to that Russia basically said “it aint no big thang” but IF they wrre really so concerned with NATO expansion then Finland joining NATO would be catastrophic to Putin, but instead Putin shrugged it off like its nothing. I think that alone demonstrates this was never about stopping NATO expansion, and if it was, it has totally failed as it created further NATO expansion.

Furthermore from what ive been told (obviously i cant verify in person) Russias been moving military assets from NATO bordering regions to the war effort in Ukraine. If Russia was so concerned about NATO why would they be disarming their NATO bordering regions? Out of necessity? If thats the case then it further highlights the deficits in Russias capabilities to wage this war,

Its always seemed to me the Russians dont fear NATO as a threat to their security, but rather as a threat to their imperialist agenda of restoring historical boundaries of the soviet union as much as possible.
 
Hugh the whole prevent NATO expansion because we feel threatened argument for the aggression by Russia seems bogus as fuck. Finalnds now joining NATO, in resoonse to that Russia basically said “it aint no big thang” but IF they wrre really so concerned with NATO expansion then Finland joining NATO would be catastrophic to Putin, but instead Putin shrugged it off like its nothing. I think that alone demonstrates this was never about stopping NATO expansion, and if it was, it has totally failed as it created further NATO expansion.

Furthermore from what ive been told (obviously i cant verify in person) Russias been moving military assets from NATO bordering regions to the war effort in Ukraine. If Russia was so concerned about NATO why would they be disarming their NATO bordering regions? Out of necessity? If thats the case then it further highlights the deficits in Russias capabilities to wage this war,

Its always seemed to me the Russians dont fear NATO as a threat to their security, but rather as a threat to their imperialist agenda of restoring historical boundaries of the soviet union as much as possible.
One thing is certain: If NATO expansion was the reason for the invasion, then the invasion backfired. Norway was a founding member of NATO, but Sweden and Finland wanted nothing to do with it. Now, because of this invasion, Sweden and Finland are rushing to join.

So that may be subjectively in Putin's mind the goal, but his actions were not well thought out and backfired.
 
One thing is certain: If NATO expansion was the reason for the invasion, then the invasion backfired. Norway was a founding member of NATO, but Sweden and Finland wanted nothing to do with it. Now, because of this invasion, Sweden and Finland are rushing to join.

So that may be subjectively in Putin's mind the goal, but his actions were not well thought out and backfired.
I think so but this also makes him dangerous as he might use Nukes to save face and possibly his life as Russian people don't like to lose especially to Ukraine.
 
Where are you getting this from? What is your source/sources? Ive seen lots of conflicting info,but i am sceptical of everything i see about the war.

At 200/day the math doesnt hit 150k.

Why trust ukraine officials report of casualties? I maybe incorrectly assume ukraine would inflate casualty#s to get more aid while russia would deflate to appear strong.

The estimates here by a retired Colonel

 
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