Intra workout nutrition

[Docd187123]

Again my spin doctor friend. Your ignorance is only super ceded by your arrogance.
He is is not my idol. He is one of the most respected individuals in the industry.

You didn't even take the time to actually read the references he quoted. You merely said you don't agree with them. Guess what. Opinions are like ass holes. If you don't subscribe to his views I am not trying to convince you or anyone else to either. You are trying hard to minimize someone's hard work when you yourself have produced zilch.

Again. I mentioned his work because I am a fan of both his training and nutrition advice. Do I follow all of it, hell no. But most of it makes sense to me and I am sure many others as well.
Get back to being the arm chair quarterback.

You're incorrect yet again. I did read many of the references he quoted which means I've read them multiple times now bc I've already seen and read many of them.

Pointing out misapplied science and studies that flat out don't say what he says they say is critiquing it and discrediting it based on the actual facts. That's what productive dialogue entails. You on the other hand seem to wan it swept under the rug and for people to believe him solely based on his credentials and experience lol.

It makes sense to you bc you don't know any better and you're razzled and dazzled by the smoke screen. Many others might be as well as you pointed out. If you took the time to educate yourself on the topic you'd see the truth for what it is.

If I'm the armchair quarterback would that make you the armchair nothing since you've produced even less?

 

[Xlgx]

Apparently this has you triggered. I don't need to have the last word.

 

[Docd187123]

Apparently this has you triggered. I don't need to have the last word.

Bad information does bother me, yes. Appeals to authority and blind loyalty bother me, yes. Someone trying to counter-argue a point they know nothing about and haven't even taken the time to do some basic research bothers me, yes. Triggered no. Annoyed, like getting stung by a mosquito, yes.

Making reference to it means you want exactly that

 

[grey]

He sites most if not all his sources and references in his research
Obviously not everyone will agree with all of it.

Man... Let me help you out here... Arguing with @Docd187123 about guys like Stevenson is not going to be a winning proposition for you. Docd is one of the most knowledgeable dude on Meso for nutrition, programming, and bio-chem. It is just a fact and he has proved it a thousand times over.

Stevenson and ostensible phys-ex-nut dudes love the shitty studies that Doc already shredded because they know that the vast majority of the people who see them linked either will not read them or have no idea how to critically examine these deeply flawed and often dangerously stupid studies. Linking them provides instant pseudo-credibility which drives sales of their goods/services.

SS does an annual review of these types of studies for this exact reason (available on YouTube for nothing). The vast majority of the studies are so badly done that doing them at all is an actual damaging effect to the knowledge base.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

And therein lies your fist mistake. Appealing to authority lol



Are you upset it took very little effort to refute his "facts" or is it the fact that a menial amount of effort is required by anyone with a desire to do so the problem?

Lustig too, for example, spent a lifetime into his "research". Unfortunately time spent doesn't mean he's not an idiot either.



So in a roundabout way, you are admitting the teens and 20-30 crowd here can see facts yet you can't? That speaks more about you than it does about me....



I could be him. I could be the Cookie Monster. Heck, I could even be Ronnie Coleman.... Fortunately for the sake of science, it doesn't matter who you are but how you present and back your argument and your little doctor does a very poor job at it.



Glad to hear it. You might learn something worthwhile in the process.



Hopefully that's a small minority but I've never been foolish enough to believe everyone can be "saved".

Great analysis in this thread Doc - big props - it makes it all the more perplexing why the same stringency escapes you when it comes to econ/politics... peace!

To the thread - I've started a modest slin dose (5IU) prior to workouts, followed by a whey isolate/blueberries/banana shake - with some caffeine and various amino acids added - and I'm about to order some cyclic dextrin to add to my intra-WO bottle. I'm planning on running this for 8 weeks. Does that sound like a good approach?

 

[hurricane]

Great analysis in this thread Doc - big props - it makes it all the more perplexing why the same stringency escapes you when it comes to econ/politics... peace!

To the thread - I've started a modest slin dose (5IU) prior to workouts, followed by a whey isolate/blueberries/banana shake - with some caffeine and various amino acids added - and I'm about to order some cyclic dextrin to add to my intra-WO bottle. I'm planning on running this for 8 weeks. Does that sound like a good approach?

@tenpoundsleft . You're over 40 right bro? If I'm wrong I apologize. And in no way am I trying to be a dik but why use something so potentially dangerous as insulin?? Just curious.

 

[Redrum42]

@tenpoundsleft . You're over 40 right bro? If I'm wrong I apologize. And in no way am I trying to be a dik but why use something so potentially dangerous as insulin?? Just curious.

I am also curious why you would use insulin at such an amateur level at such a low dose. That dose is way lower than your natural secretion and is probably doing more harm than good, like running 50mg of testosterone/week

 

[Eman]

at such a low dose

Would you suggest he start higher?

That dose is way lower than your natural secretion and is probably doing more harm than good, like running 50mg of testosterone/week

Although 5iu is definitely a modest dose, it's not a bad dose to start and experiment at. You will feel 5iu of insulin during your workout.

curious why you would use insulin at such an amateur level

This could really be applied to most or all of the drugs that are being taken in the amateur world. I'm not downplaying the risks of insulin use at all but when I hear arguments like this I feel as though all other compounds with risks are being downplayed.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I am also curious why you would use insulin at such an amateur level at such a low dose. That dose is way lower than your natural secretion and is probably doing more harm than good, like running 50mg of testosterone/week

That level was recommended to me by my trainer/advisor he's an old pro, still active, with plenty of experience, and more titles than probably anyone on this board.

His logic is to use it carefully, that less can be more, and that even 4IU about an hour pre-workout (combined with a carb/whey shake) will add to the workout with minimal sides.

Humalog (Lispro) has peak potency after btw 1 to 2 hours.

This also means it goes out of the system so fast that your own production isn't impacted.

I'm curious about this compound, if a modest dose gives me results with lower sides than, say, Anadrol or some other oral, as a PWO boost, then it's good. I'm not chasing another 50lbs, so I think this is worth trying. Exceedingly inexpensive.

BTW, considering how slin can go really sideways with bigger doses, I'd think you'd applaud a careful approach instead of calling it "amateur" level - better to be a dead pro?

@Eman

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Although 5iu is definitely a modest dose, it's not a bad dose to start and experiment at. You will feel 5iu of insulin during your workout.

Oh, I felt it, it was leg day, and I have never felt that quad pump before, and I wobbled down the stairs and across the parking lot.. . Still hurts today.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

@tenpoundsleft . You're over 40 right bro? If I'm wrong I apologize. And in no way am I trying to be a dik but why use something so potentially dangerous as insulin?? Just curious.

No worries, I came to the conclusion that it would be worthwhile after talking to other older guys with long lifting history who have used or are using it, and swear by it. The alternative would be orals on workout days, and a modest slin dose seems like less stress on the body.

But curious to get your take on this. I've only used it this week, so can't really say much yet.

I do proceed cautiously of course.

 

[Eman]

Oh, I felt it, it was leg day, and I have never felt that quad pump before, and I wobbled down the stairs and across the parking lot.. . Still hurts today.

Insulin pump is unlike any other kind of pump I've ever had while lifting, and very unexpected too. You can't take any other N.O. product or even Cialis to replicate what it feels like.

 

[hurricane]

No worries, I came to the conclusion that it would be worthwhile after talking to other older guys with long lifting history who have used or are using it, and swear by it. The alternative would be orals on workout days, and a modest slin dose seems like less stress on the body.

But curious to get your take on this. I've only used it this week, so can't really say much yet.

I do proceed cautiously of course.

Completely cool bro. You're obviously being careful with it and under the supervision of someone knowledgeable about insulin. I was just curious.

 

[Redrum42]

That level was recommended to me by my trainer/advisor he's an old pro, still active, with plenty of experience, and more titles than probably anyone on this board.

His logic is to use it carefully, that less can be more, and that even 4IU about an hour pre-workout (combined with a carb/whey shake) will add to the workout with minimal sides.

Humalog (Lispro) has peak potency after btw 1 to 2 hours.

This also means it goes out of the system so fast that your own production isn't impacted.

I'm curious about this compound, if a modest dose gives me results with lower sides than, say, Anadrol or some other oral, as a PWO boost, then it's good. I'm not chasing another 50lbs, so I think this is worth trying. Exceedingly inexpensive.

BTW, considering how slin can go really sideways with bigger doses, I'd think you'd applaud a careful approach instead of calling it "amateur" level - better to be a dead pro?

@Eman

I could be wrong. But wasn't one article I could find about exogenous insulin suppressing endogenous insulin in normal people, let alone the many experiments needed to confirm. Many chemicals and hormones in the body do get suppressed, even with short half lives. Some don't. If you have proof that it doesn't I would love to learn. The problem with this is not many people want to do an experiment with putting supraphysiological doses of insulin in healthy people. Some say it's responsible for visceral fat and organ growth, some say it's just correlation. Point is we don't know much for sure.

Real world experience is great and I'm sure your guy knows more than me in general. But the problem with that can be they don't trust or learn about updates, and every generation believes in some falsehoods.

 

[Copperhead1965]

Not real heavy on the science info, but I can say pre and intra carbs make me feel good. Also my endurance and pump seem much better. I really like Vitargo, but it is quite expensive so I usually use Karbolyn.

 

[showstoppa]

In general calories and protein will get you 90% or so of the way there and will get you there with enough time and consistency. . Nutrient timing through can get you there quicker.

As far as Scott Stevenson goes, if you were a member of his forum you would know he says Peri workout nutrition is a very small portion of overall success, very small. Also says it's more important for some who don't eat right the rest of the time. Which we already or should have already known.

As far as what to use Peri workout, hbcd and peptopro are going to be your best bet followed by efa's or bcaa's and some fast acting carb. But again unless you are using slin, don't freak about it, it's a very very small portion of success.