Is nutrient timing overrated?

[Daveanthony]

26 yr old
200lbs
5'11"

My current macros and split have been as follows

Chest, back, rest, shoulders, arms, legs, rest

Training days (roughly) *Carbs morning, pre, and post workout only*

200g protein
250g carbs
60-75 g fat
2600-3000 calories

Off days
*Carbs morning only*

200-250g protein
Carbs as low as possible (morning only)
Fats 100-125g
Calories 2300-2600

Is this a good approach at building muscle while also cutting fat?

Or would adding in more frequent cardio while eating more carbs give me better results?

Any opinions would be appreciated

 

[Demondosage]

Everyone will disagree with me here, but carbs are #1 for building muscle, not protein.

I think at 200lbs your calories are too low

 

[Daveanthony]

So if i upped my carbs what should i tweak to keep the bf down? More calories to build and more cardio to stay lean?

 

[Docd187123]

Unless you're a newbie to the gym or coming back from a long layoff, you won't gain muscle and lose fat to any significant degree. Choose one or the other and work towards it then switch.

 

[Docd187123]

So if i upped my carbs what should i tweak to keep the bf down? More calories to build and more cardio to stay lean?

Cardio doesn't keep you lean. Cardio burns calories so if you eat more calories and do more cardio to burn those calories you're basically fuckin a chick without busting a nut.

 

[Demondosage]

Unless you're a newbie to the gym or coming back from a long layoff, you won't gain muscle and lose fat to any significant degree. Choose one or the other and work towards it then switch.

Exactly this right here

 

[Daveanthony]

So i guess the sad truth is pick one or the other. Thanks for the input guys !

 

[Demondosage]

So if i upped my carbs what should i tweak to keep the bf down? More calories to build and more cardio to stay lean?

Bro, think of cardio as a way to keep hunger stimulated and metabolism higher. But I wouldnt live on the treadmill. 3x a week for 30 min a shot when growing is enough. Eat dirty. Yes, I said it....eat dirty!!! Make sure you get all of the necessary good foods into you and then have a high calorie cheat meal once every single day. Nobody got big on just tuna fish

 

[Applejacked]

Everyone will disagree with me here, but carbs are #1 for building muscle, not protein.

I think at 200lbs your calories are too low

Carbs are as important as protein if timed properly. It helps aid ATP and gives your cells energy. I think you have to be smart with carbs though. Simple carbs that have good Micro nutrition are helpful before a workout where as complex carbs make more sense to eat before bed. I also sleep eat so they hold off that midnight snack.

I do disagree on your eat dirty logic though. Only because I think if you are able to understand absorption of vitamins minerals antioxidants and you can see things you'd never expect. Look up what up iodine does postworkout. You'd be surprised

 

[Demondosage]

Carbs are as important as protein if timed properly. It helps aid ATP and gives your cells energy. I think you have to be smart with carbs though. Simple carbs that have good Micro nutrition are helpful before a workout where as complex carbs make more sense to eat before bed. I also sleep eat so they hold off that midnight snack.

I do disagree on your eat dirty logic though. Only because I think if you are able to understand absorption of vitamins minerals antioxidants and you can see things you'd never expect. Look up what up iodine does postworkout. You'd be surprised

I can only go off my own experience here and what others who are very muscular I know do. Also, a lot of it depends on age. I know when I was in my first 5-8 years of weight training I had to eat a ridiculous amount to gain mass. Much more than just eating clean could do. The thing is I really didn't gain much fat either. I also know a few IFBB pro bodybuilders who didn't get to the level they're at from all clean foods. You'd be surprised at how some of them actually eat to grow or maintain size. I know a multiple Mr. O winner who ate peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in the off season like they were going out of style. I know a top Olympia contender who ate McDonalds 3x a day to put on mass. I'm not saying it's healthy to do, but let's just say things aren't always what people want you to believe.

I've known national level competitors that ate boatloads of pasta to grow. I understand where you're coming from by a health standpoint, but serious size takes serious measures. At my biggest and strongest (263 lbs at 5'9, squat was 405/24 reps PR) I can tell you I was eating anytging and everything

 

[Rockclimber]

405x24, holy shit man!
Have you ever tried to knock out birthday squats? Its 315 x your age... sounds like it would be a breeze for you.

I do find that eating more carbs is the best way to grow early on. I used to be really skinny and to put on mass I had to eat 300-400 carbs a day along with my 250+ protein. Hello pasta and large fully loaded baked potatoes!

 

[Xlgx]

Nutrient timing and nutrient manipulation is key imo

 

[Demondosage]

405x24, holy shit man!
Have you ever tried to knock out birthday squats? Its 315 x your age... sounds like it would be a breeze for you.

I do find that eating more carbs is the best way to grow early on. I used to be really skinny and to put on mass I had to eat 300-400 carbs a day along with my 250+ protein. Hello pasta and large fully loaded baked potatoes!

I dont think birthday squats will be in my lifetime now, hahaha.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I dont think birthday squats will be in my lifetime now, hahaha.

Even a single plate times my age (54) will be tough

 

[Daveanthony]

I guess my main question is how to incorporate carbs on a rest day if at all. Would you still eat carbs with every meal if you weren't training that day?

 

[Docd187123]

I guess my main question is how to incorporate carbs on a rest day if at all. Would you still eat carbs with every meal if you weren't training that day?

Why would you care? Eat your carbs whenever you want on off days.

 

[Daveanthony]

In terms of nutrient timing, iv been following the carbs morning, pre and post workout which has been working great but when it comes to rest days i usually only stick to morning carbs but i feel hungry all day without them. Just wondering what everyone else does. Probably doesn't make much difference when your taking the right drugs but i am currently off cycle and everything little thing makes a difference.

 

[Docd187123]

In terms of nutrient timing, iv been following the carbs morning, pre and post workout which has been working great but when it comes to rest days i usually only stick to morning carbs but i feel hungry all day without them. Just wondering what everyone else does. Probably doesn't make much difference when your taking the right drugs but i am currently off cycle and everything little thing makes a difference.

Timing your carbs doesn't make any kind of worthwhile difference for you. If you feel hungry then eat the carbs later at night. It's that simple.

 

[Xlgx]

Very individual and depends on your goals.

 

[Rockclimber]

If I'm bulking I'm eating. Carbs on non workout days also. Eat