Is creatine bad for you??

[Rook2135]

Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players. - PubMed - NCBI

Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players.
van der Merwe J1, Brooks NE, Myburgh KH.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
This study investigated resting concentrations of selected androgens after 3 weeks of creatine supplementation in male rugby players. It was hypothesized that the ratio of dihydrotestosterone (DHT, a biologically more active androgen) to testosterone (T) would change with creatine supplementation.

DESIGN:
Double-blind placebo-controlled crossover study with a 6-week washout period.

SETTING:
Rugby Institute in South Africa.

PARTICIPANTS:
College-aged rugby players (n = 20) volunteered for the study, which took place during the competitive season.

INTERVENTIONS:
Subjects loaded with creatine (25 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose) or placebo (50 g/day glucose) for 7 days followed by 14 days of maintenance (5 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose or 30 g/day glucose placebo).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Serum T and DHT were measured and ratio calculated at baseline and after 7 days and 21 days of creatine supplementation (or placebo). Body composition measurements were taken at each time point.

RESULTS:
After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

CONCLUSIONS:
Creatine supplementation may, in part, act through an increased rate of conversion of T to DHT. Further investigation is warranted as a result of the high frequency of individuals using creatine supplementation and the long-term safety of alterations in circulating androgen composition. STATEMENT OF CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Although creatine is a widely used ergogenic aid, the mechanisms of action are incompletely understood, particularly in relation to dihydrotestosterone, and therefore the long-term clinical safety cannot be guaranteed.


As an AAS user I do not want anymore DHT than neccesary. What do you guys think

 

[Docd187123]

It's one study and has not been replicated.

 

[jJjburton]

Creatine works

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Interesting, indeed.
i've never heard anyone complain of the typical sides associated with DHT.

The study still needs to be carried out on a larger scale and re verified before i'd even consider ditching my creatine.

 

[AnTabolic73]

so can I blame my balding so creatine?

 

[MisterSuperGod]

so can I blame my balding so creatine?

The sky's the limit brah!

 

[ironwill1951]

I get a kick out of this a bunch of guys that use tren worring about the effects of creatine.

 

[Rook2135]

I get a kick out of this a bunch of guys that use tren worring about the effects of creatine.

Yhea, because tren will put on 20 lbs of solid muscle on yo ass, creatine wont. Its all about risk reward, creatine hardly does shit compared to tren yet it also has horrible sides like increasing DHT. No thanks. You guys can take it if you want but I rather not.

 

[Rook2135]

so can I blame my balding so creatine?

You can blame that on your momma, that shits genetic

 

[Docd187123]

Yhea, because tren will put on 20 lbs of solid muscle on yo ass, creatine wont. Its all about risk reward, creatine hardly does shit compared to tren yet it also has horrible sides like increasing DHT. No thanks. You guys can take it if you want but I rather not.

You made a definitive statement off of one I replicated study. It's not conclusive...:

While we're at it, tren won't put 20lbs of muscle on you in one cycle, creatine won't fuck up your lipids, creatine won't mess with your BP, creatine won't fuck with your blood sugar, tren will make someone with the disposition just as bald, creatine won't fuck with your brain, etc. So yea, let's do a cost benefit analysis based on more than one, single study lol

 

[Thenewera]

Friend 1: shoots 3cc of tren
Friend 1: tells friend he needs to try it
Friend 2: uses creatine and takes TWO scoops
Friend 1: woah man! That shit raises DHT you better watch using that stuff!

What?

 

[Docd187123]

And that's not even taking into consideration you might not get real tren from your BLACK MARKET SUPPLIER, you don't know if your black market supplier used sterile procedures making your INJECTABLE drug, and you risk infection every time you inject said drug. Yes, creatine is so much more risky

 

[Rook2135]

Well then dont take tren. problem solved. All im saying is that for me the shitty results from creatine dont warrant the "potential " side of raised dht. All creatine does is help with atp, strenght and minor size due to water, but hardly any direct size gains in pure muscle fibers. You guys can use it if you want but I wont.

 

[Docd187123]

The title of the thread is "is creatine bad for you?" It's not is creatine worth the sides or anything else. The posts made to counter your post was to point out the irony of worrying about probably the most scrutinized, studied, and safe dietary supplements on the market yet not hesitating to shoot up tren that's made on the black market and could put you in the hospital with an infection. You asked what we thought after all and what seems to be the common thought is that you're worrying over some possible insignificant increase in DHT yet didn't hesitate to take or take in the future a compound that hasn't been studied extensively on humans and can fuck with BP, BG, lipids, cholesterol, brain, and more. You don't think worrying about just dht pales in comparison to worrying about all the other shit?

 

[ironwill1951]

I agree if you use tren you sure as hell should not condemn an over the counter product.

 

[Eman]

Does this mean we have to stop eating meat as well...?

 

[Rook2135]

The title of the thread is "is creatine bad for you?" It's not is creatine worth the sides or anything else. The posts made to counter your post was to point out the irony of worrying about probably the most scrutinized, studied, and safe dietary supplements on the market yet not hesitating to shoot up tren that's made on the black market and could put you in the hospital with an infection. You asked what we thought after all and what seems to be the common thought is that you're worrying over some possible insignificant increase in DHT yet didn't hesitate to take or take in the future a compound that hasn't been studied extensively on humans and can fuck with BP, BG, lipids, cholesterol, brain, and more. You don't think worrying about just dht pales in comparison to worrying about all the other shit?

Its obviously bad for you if it increases your dht. You think that this medical journal is not accurate and you can be dumb if you want to. Im not saying that this study is definitive but it enough for me to get rid of my creatine. As dor the tren you can get rid of that shit also if you want but for me the tren positives outweight the negatives . Not to say that creatine will kill you or having raised dht is going to kill you but creatine does nothing, crap, zero, nada in comparison to most Steroids so fuck it it going down the motherfucken garbage in my house.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

There is no MOA that would allow creatine to increase DHT and, honestly, that shitty paper highlights the issue of contaminated supplements rather than any issue with creatine itself.

Notice how DHT levels dropped off significantly once the loading phase (25g/day) transitioned to maintenance? That should raise alarm bells.

No independent testing to verify the purity & labelling accuracy of the supplement used. This is a major issue when we consider the fact that contamination of raw materials sourced from certain countries (China) is relatively common place as illustrated by this paper which found that 2.5mcg of a nandrolone-precursor (0.00005% contamination) within a creatine supplement was enough to cause a positive test for nandrolone: Urinary nandrolone metabolite detection after ingestion of a nandrolone precursor. - PubMed - NCBI

No disclosure of the time of day the testing was done. This goes back to my "shitty reporting" comment since we all know that test, DHT, etc all vary throughout the day and its important to keep the timing consistent.

No disclosure of the diet & training of the athletes, the manufacturer of the supplement, any potential conflicts of interests and on & on the shitty reporting goes.

So yes, taking into consideration the data as a WHOLE....this single, highly flawed, study becomes relatively meaningless as far as creatine use is concerned.

 

[Rook2135]

There is no MOA that would allow creatine to increase DHT and, honestly, that shitty paper highlights the issue of contaminated supplements rather than any issue with creatine itself.

Notice how DHT levels dropped off significantly once the loading phase (25g/day) transitioned to maintenance? That should raise alarm bells.

No independent testing to verify the purity & labelling accuracy of the supplement used. This is a major issue when we consider the fact that contamination of raw materials sourced from certain countries (China) is relatively common place as illustrated by this paper which found that 2.5mcg of a nandrolone-precursor (0.00005% contamination) within a creatine supplement was enough to cause a positive test for nandrolone: Urinary nandrolone metabolite detection after ingestion of a nandrolone precursor. - PubMed - NCBI

No disclosure of the time of day the testing was done. This goes back to my "shitty reporting" comment since we all know that test, DHT, etc all vary throughout the day and its important to keep the timing consistent.

No disclosure of the diet & training of the athletes, the manufacturer of the supplement, any potential conflicts of interests and on & on the shitty reporting goes.

So yes, taking into consideration the data as a WHOLE....this single, highly flawed, study becomes relatively meaningless as far as creatine use is concerned.

Good point.

 

[Docd187123]

Its obviously bad for you if it increases your dht. You think that this medical journal is not accurate and you can be dumb if you want to. Im not saying that this study is definitive but it enough for me to get rid of my creatine. As dor the tren you can get rid of that shit also if you want but for me the tren positives outweight the negatives . Not to say that creatine will kill you or having raised dht is going to kill you but creatine does nothing, crap, zero, nada in comparison to most Steroids so fuck it it going down the motherfucken garbage in my house.

It's bad for you if it increases DHT? Just like testosterone is bad for you since it increases estrogen?

I need said the medical journal wasn't accurate but you're obviously blissfully unaware of just how many studies are done that have never been replicated after numerous attempts. Basically it means the results were flukes and shouldn't be taken seriously. That's why replication and going through the peer review process is vital to a studies strength of evidence.