Losing muscle mass

[Torramos]

hi,
After a turinabol cycle on January, I am still losing muscle mass.
I started cycle With 94 went to 100 and presently I am 88 kgs and much fatter.
Hormones are ok. Test is 700 oestregen 28.
Can't explain this.
Doctors are lost.
Same routine , of course I am eating less. But than why am I get fatter and fatter ?
Is it some kind of metabolic syndrome, steroid rebound ??? Liver issues ? Insuline resistence ??
Before I could run half marathon without loosing muscle , but now I seem to be in a constant catabolic state !!!!
Has this happen to anybody you know ? Any ideas. I am truly desperate.thks

 

[Docd187123]

It's in your head

 

[Torramos]

Of course. Silly me!!!
Why go to the gym and eat healthy ? I just have to record motivational speaches and listen to them twice a day.
Should we tell the rest of the guys ?

 

[Docd187123]

Of course. Silly me!!!
Why go to the gym and eat healthy ? I just have to record motivational speaches and listen to them twice a day.
Should we tell the rest of the guys ?

If that comment was beyond your comprehension you could have asked for clarification. Don't be ashamed uo don't understand something.

 

[Torramos]

Indeed
I thought of asking you to elaborate your comment, but then I realize that you were referring to stress.
Stress don't make you lose 12 kgs and gain fat and I am not more stressed than any other time.
But of course not understanding what's going is a stressful situation by itself ...
Another posible interpretation was that you were referring to a pituitary tumor... ( I don't . I have tested twice, last time one month ago).
So I think you were referring to stress. Could you please elaborate ? I think it's not posible, but I am opened mind and always eager to learn from more experienced people. Feel free to Pv me.

 

[Docd187123]

Indeed
I thought of asking you to elaborate your comment, but then I realize that you were referring to stress.
Stress don't make you lose 12 kgs and gain fat and I am not more stressed than any other time.
But of course not understanding what's going is a stressful situation by itself ...
Another posible interpretation was that you were referring to a pituitary tumor... ( I don't . I have tested twice, last time one month ago).
So I think you were referring to stress. Could you please elaborate ? I think it's not posible, but I am opened mind and always eager to learn from more experienced people. Feel free to Pv me.

By in your head I meant a psychosomatic issue. You perceive there to be a deficit and your mind makes it real while physiologically it may not exist. Almost like a placebo in a way. That's one possibility and I've seen it happen several times to know it exists. No joke.

Your test and estrogen levels are fine so it's more than likely not a hormonal issue. The best way to get to the bottom of the problem is to ask questions so:

1) what's your diet like? How many calories are you eating, how many grams protein, fat and carbs? What are your maintenance calories like? How long have you been dieting?

2) what's your training like? Post uo a few days of what your training looks like.

3) how's your sleep been as of late?

4) any outside stress from your life outside the gym? New job, breakup with a girlfriend, worried about being laid off???

5) how are you measuring your body fat levels? The mirror or using something else? Could it be you're holding water to make you look fat while not actually gaining fat? Could you be glycogen depleted so your muscles look empty and not full?

 

[Streetracer_PB]

Seems like another oral only cycle took its toll on someone..

What PCT protocol did you follow?

 

[DonQKong]

Seems like another oral only cycle took its toll on someone..

What PCT protocol did you follow?

There you go. I tried a few oral only cycles, and could not for the life of me understand why I lost it again after a few months. Diet and training were in check.

Then went back on the juice and life changed. Am currently 3 months after cycle and kept my strength. Lost a bit of freak look and the 'pop at the top' when running max, but still strong like bull.

OP? First cycle? It's when you come off cycle the work starts ... Instead of eating and working out TONS, you need to eat and work out SMART. Oh and get on the juice, I already said that.

DQ

 

[Torramos]

Allways could gain muscle and lose fat (usually with ketogenic diet) .
Now its imposible! when i try to lose some fat and go for a keto diet and cardio i i just lose 2 pounds of muscle in 2 days.

before I did gym and running, and i was in good shape.
After the steroid i was 100 kg (before i was 94), and i am now 88. You can call it a disaster. It seems i can no longer do protein synthesis and i am unable to loose any fat. I think its a metabolic issue. My hormones were nice 3 weeks after steroids i allready had a testosterone of 350 and estradiol < 20 .
I took aspartic acid, tribus, zma and on june some nolvadex (because i thought the problem was hormonal).

I lift heavy (strenght as diminished a bit, but not that much), i allways worked hard and regular and even so i am constantly losing muscle. Same routine, but now of course i am eating less. Complex carbs and high quality protein (and a lot of whey .. probably 6 scoops a day)

I go to the gym everyday.. I repeat body parts in 5 days following a 10*8*8*6 repetitions.

I dont run anyomore. Everytime i go running i lose muscle. specially if i dont tanke carbs.

My metabolism is completely fucked up.

It's usual to lose gains from orals. I was ok with that. But i lost much more than that, i lost 12 kgs!!!!!! ( half of them were mine and gained with intense work) and gained fat on belly and chest.

and now i can't lose fat or gain muscle.

Of course i could try a testosterone cycle, but then when i came out, the problem should be the same.. and I am not keen in trying again aas.

Sleep is not regular, i wake up two /three times a night , but i am used to that (last 3 years)

Mirror is my main indicator. Polos and t shirts are getting big and jeans tighter. Balance indicates 12 kgs decrease! You cant miss a 12 kgs decrease. I was fit at 10%, now i am skinny fat.

Allways thought that a bad cycle was losing gains. i never thought it could mess up with your metabolism in this manner.

 

[Streetracer_PB]

I know its alot of effort. But can you post your on cycle and current diet in detail?

 

[RodgerThat]

My hormones were nice 3 weeks after steroids i allready had a testosterone of 350 and estradiol < 20 .
I took aspartic acid, tribus, zma and on june some nolvadex (because i thought the problem was hormonal).

So you did not have a proper PCT after cycle then?

I go to the gym everyday..

This means you are not giving your body any recovery time and will hinder more then aid

Sleep is not regular

Another big issue in hindering you is sleep it's as important as lifting

and a lot of whey .. probably 6 scoops a day)

Proof to an incomplete understanding of nutrition.

i try to lose some fat and go for a keto diet and cardio i i just lose 2 pounds of muscle in 2 days.

Physical impossibility unless you have severe AIDs. Ketones utilize fat cells long before you'd use muscle. Even if you weren't in keto because of your "high protien" intake you still wouldn't lose 2pounds of muscle because you'd have all that muscle sparing protien in your body

 

[Torramos]

No, I did nt had a proper PCT. That would explain why i start losing so fast, but my test levels were reasonable 3 weeks later. I was 97 kgs than .

Sleep has been a trouble for a long period.. I just awake up to many times at night, i am awake for about 5 mins and then i just fall asleep again. This pattern is consistent for the last 3 years

well, i know . 3 scoops should be enough. breakfast, pre and post train. But i took 2 scoops every time. some say that is one of the reasons for my present condition.. i intoxocated my organism with suplements..

1 1/2 day on keto and a 45 min jogg and my weight drop 1 kg . I measured after 3 high carb meals. so its not an issue of refeed glycogen
This happened before.. everytime i dont use carbs (usually when i think about getting ride of belly fat) i lose muscle..
One time i lost 3 kgs in 3 days ( from 96 to 93 in three days!!!!)
Its odd.. but its true ( i have no need to exagerate).


My diet on the last 5 months was:
Morning
- 2 scoops whey, oats
- fruit, 2 Yougurt
Lunch
- meat and rice and salad
afternoon
- ham and yougurt
- almonds, brasilian nuts
Before training
- oats,banana , whey
peri training
-carbo hydrate liquid
after training
-whey, banana
dinner
-chicken, sweat patatoe, spincahs
- fruit
before sleep
- casein,whey or cottage cheese
-fruit

You could think i was not eating enough and i was decreasing weight but than why have i gain a lot of fat ?

Could it be insuline resistence ?
I think it s not related to the steroid, but no question it was a trigger .

Cycle was 40/50/60/60/60/60 and i ended it on february.

7 months have passed and i am still like in a catabolic state.

By the way cortisol values are generally very high. Urine cortisol was around 600 (max 60). when i stop whey it dropped to 150.. i ll measure it again tomorrow.