wtf is wrong with so many Muslims?!

[dennis]

Woah, woah, woah! Let's not make shit up here, shall we? The Constitution(the document which founded and is the heart of America) is SPECIFICALLY a non-religious document founded on non-religious princicples.

While a goodly percentage of the population may have been religious, the foundation of the country is NOT religious or religion. In fact, the Constitution and America was founded as an areligious place ON PURPOSE so that we didn't have another case of the Church of England or some crazy towel-wearing fucksticks running around and oppressing everyone here.

You can thank reason and non-religious men for the freedoms you have.

I can thank Jesus' preciuos blood for the freedom I have along with all the brave americans that have died to protect our country..d

 

[CaesarWilliam]

I'm curious if you have ever been to another Country. I'd say on the true "Freedom Factor" America is dragging up the rear right now. You are persecuted. At every level of life the governement intervines.

Other countries have less infrastucture, but are far freer. Latin America for example has it flaws, but all in all the people are much more friendly, the law is very minimal, police interfearnace in your daily life is non-existant, business is much less restricted, and these places are very easy to make a good living in. There are no wars. In some countries there is not even a Military. Because they don't need one. (I am not anti-war in principle)

I love the States, but I can no longer live there. No Freedoms have remained as they were intended. Freedom of speech is words the media will bend, they can hold you indefinatly without trial, you can't own a gun without being placed in a government computer. I think you can still take a shit without permisission, but I ain't been in COuntry in a couple years, so that may have changed also.

Ben Franklin said that Anyone who gives up essential liberty for a trade of saftey deserves neither liberty nor safety.

I'm sure your answer to me is "AMERICA! Love it our leave it!" My answer, "I did."

 

[van-man]

By the way you phrased your statement, it sounds like you were told to leave....

 

[CaesarWilliam]

Nope, just a choice. I don't mean it's for everyone.

 

[Bob Smith]

Caeser, Ive been to South America and all in all, I think it sucks. They may have less govt interference, but the average standard of living is lower than the average poor family in America. Try speaking out against Hugo Chavez in Caracas and lets see what your opinion of the Venezuelan military is. Ive been there and see the military in action. My dad has done a lot of business down there, and its not a "friendly" place to go when you have to have military escort and protection when you leave the city. No doubt there are some beautiful places down there, but the standard of living is low, freedoms depend entirely on which country you are in, and the political instability in most of those countries is enough to stay away.

 

[CaesarWilliam]

A lot of what you say is true. It all depends on what you value personaly, and where you are. I don't pretend to know what's right for you, just myself.

it's fun sometimes playing devils advocte. I haven't seen enough of the world yet to form concrete oppinions on where is best, but I'm tryin'

 

[Grizzly]

A propewr religion as a concept does not exist on planet earth.

Religion as a concept was dreamed up as a way for man to explain things he does not understand, and to give him hope in the future and times of despair.

The proper Religion of tomorrow would include things like, evolution, atomic science, astro-physics, genetics ect. It would also recognize man's basic needs(sex, love, violence, hatred ect) not try to repress honest, normal, instincts that we have developed through the course of human history. These instincts were developed for our survival.

The religion of tomorrow would recognize we are not above our planet. The rape of our living space for finacial gain must cease. (I ain't no hippie) Man must realize that the individual means absolutly nothing and that good of the whole is most important or we will be exterminated by evolution. Evolution dictates that if we do not continue to evolve then we will be eradicated.(ask the millions of dead species that preceded us!) We cannot mold the world to our needs. we must mold ourselves around the structure of the world that currently exists. This religion would be a higherarchy of power to be used to the continued evolution of man so that we could strive as a community to constantly better ourselves, physically, mentally as a species. This is our religion of the future.

But the Comsumer world we live in has softened us to the point that we will probobly greet our extinction with smiling faces and open arms! Here's to the death of a species! Hail Christian, hail muslim, buddist or what ever.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to take a shit.

Don't take it too harshly, since this is the first post I've read all day, but that's the biggest bunch of shit I've read all day! Of course, I anticipate it being the biggest bunch of shit I'll read for several days...so maybe you should take it harshly.

 

[Grizzly]

Other countries have less infrastucture, but are far freer. Latin America for example has it flaws, but all in all the people are much more friendly, the law is very minimal, police interfearnace in your daily life is non-existant, business is much less restricted, and these places are very easy to make a good living in. There are no wars. In some countries there is not even a Military. Because they don't need one. (I am not anti-war in principle)
"

Ok, conceptually, your other post is the biggest bunch of shit I've read all day. This one is plain factually the biggest bunch of shit. No wars in South America?? Where the fuck have you been?

 

[Desibaba]

When i was growing up in a muslim household i was told that this "World" and life was a "TEST" that would prove who is good,who is bad etc etc.I was also told God knows what will happen in the future.So if god already knows who will do what why are we being subjected to this "TEST"? Why doesnt he send us to heaven or hell right now? That started my research into this subject and i realized the big three (christianity,Islam and Judaism) are three toilet bowls right next to one another.You can jump in headfirst into whatever you like but in the end you will end up with a lot of shit.Christians have changed the bible like what a million times but people still believe that garbage.Im not saying there is anything wrong with reading the bible,Koran or the torah but remember there are much more entertaining books out there.So officially i say Fuck jesus,Fuck mohammed and everyone else who talks shit about how god sent them etc etc.These were a bunch of lying asshole and you simply dont NEED them to tell you what to do.Be good to the people around you, if someone is nice be nice to them and if someone is a dick be a dick to them as well.I follow this rule in my life and so far i have done okay for myself. You can too if you are brave enough to look beyond this shit called "religion"

 

[dennis]

When i was growing up in a muslim household i was told that this "World" and life was a "TEST" that would prove who is good,who is bad etc etc.I was also told God knows what will happen in the future.So if god already knows who will do what why are we being subjected to this "TEST"? Why doesnt he send us to heaven or hell right now? That started my research into this subject and i realized the big three (christianity,Islam and Judaism) are three toilet bowls right next to one another.You can jump in headfirst into whatever you like but in the end you will end up with a lot of shit.Christians have changed the bible like what a million times but people still believe that garbage.Im not saying there is anything wrong with reading the bible,Koran or the torah but remember there are much more entertaining books out there.So officially i say Fuck jesus,Fuck mohammed and everyone else who talks shit about how god sent them etc etc.These were a bunch of lying asshole and you simply dont NEED them to tell you what to do.Be good to the people around you, if someone is nice be nice to them and if someone is a dick be a dick to them as well.I follow this rule in my life and so far i have done okay for myself. You can too if you are brave enough to look beyond this shit called "religion"

God does know what is going to happen in the future....we have free will here on earth to do as we please..either do good or bad....remember that the bible teaches good works do not get you into heaven....Why does he not just send us to heaven or hell right now?..that would be predestination...again he gives us the choice...Christians have not changed the bible ever..you are making that up ! History proves this time and time again..ever heard of the dead sea scrolls ?yea ..your plan of being nice to those who are nice to you is working well for you right now..but what about when you die?Do you know where you are going ? You better be intelligent enough to realize there is a supreme being who created all you see and worship him....ok..ok if you are right no big deal right?we all just have fun on earth 80 years and then lights out...WHAT IF I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG ? Have you ever been wrong before.As a christian I am stopping what I am doing right now and praying that some day you too will see the light,the truth and the way...If I was one of the other religions you listed i would be trying to kill you..think about it..d

 

[van-man]

It is better to believe and be wrong than it is to not believe and be wrong - Pascal's wager

 

[Grizzly]

The lowest rung in hell is reserved for those who believe in God only so they won't go to Hell if he exists - somewhere in the Principia Discordia

 

[Grizzly]

...Christians have not changed the bible ever..you are making that up !

Sure, sure, sure. I guess that explains the King James version and the Book of Mormon(technically an adjunct to the Bible, but still a religious document of CHRISTIAN faith).

 

[van-man]

Sure, sure, sure. I guess that explains the King James version and the Book of Mormon(technically an adjunct to the Bible, but still a religious document of CHRISTIAN faith).

You won't get very far with that argument among "true" Christians grizz... the mormon's and jehovah witnesses are considered cults by bible believing churches. Soon to join their ranks are a host of non-denominational churches, the episcopalians, and a few others whose names evade me at the moment.
Of course, as you point out, from the outside looking in, how is one to distinguish? You can't really, and that is the biggest concern for people like dennis and I.
But to draw the conversation back to those crazy towel heads.... that is exactly what I was trying to point out about the islamic faith. It has become so over run by "cultists" that, from the outside looking in, how can one distinguish traditional/original islam from those whacked out terrorist groups?

BTW - Great line! I never read that book, but some of my english major friends loved to quote it. I had completely forgotten about that line until you brought it up Funny thing is.... I know of a whole slew of old school Christian writers who would totally agree with that; Augustine, Aquinas, Butler, and even C.S Lewis!

 

[Grizzly]

BTW - Great line! I never read that book, but some of my english major friends loved to quote it. I had completely forgotten about that line until you brought it up Funny thing is.... I know of a whole slew of old school Christian writers who would totally agree with that; Augustine, Aquinas, Butler, and even C.S Lewis!

A book which has the same validity as the Bible, actually. Both are written by men. Both profess to be spiritual tomes. What's the difference between the two? Sure, PD was written 20 years ago, but that didn't stop the orignal Christians from believing all the shit that they just read which was written 20 years ago.

Really, what's the difference?

 

[van-man]

A book which has the same validity as the Bible, actually. Both are written by men. Both profess to be spiritual tomes. What's the difference between the two? Sure, PD was written 20 years ago, but that didn't stop the orignal Christians from believing all the shit that they just read which was written 20 years ago.

Really, what's the difference?

You know what the difference is. Here and now as men on this earth with incomplete knowledge and wisdom there is no difference, epistemologically speaking.

But, when we turn to matters of faith and belief, and the metaphysical, that is where stories begin to change. I believe that the text in the bible is the truth. You believe that the text in principia discordia is the truth. Your faith is here, mine is there. So, it simply boils down to matters of faith. And with incomplete knowledge there is no way to conclude the argument.

So, the only question that matters is, "What do we choose to believe?"

If I could share one of my "ism's" with you, I think it might help you understand my position a little more clearly.

The Truth does not need us. It is true whether we believe it or not. We hold it dear because it is truth. It is not truth because we hold it dear. If what we have decided to be true does not withstand attack, then it was never true to begin with. The Law of Non Contradiction states that something cannot do what it is not. Therefore, the truth cannot be defeated.

If you prove one of my beliefs to be false, then you have done me a great service by saving me from a lie...

But the question remains, how can we prove anything conclusively false in a world without complete knowledge?

 

[Grizzly]

Which is what makes it all so absurd. Fighting and killing over something as silly as a whim. A fantasy.

Personally, I think there's more proof for the non-existance of a deity, but do as ye may. Of course, I know you know the ontological arguement.

Evil exists, therefore God does not.

God is either not all powerful or not all good.

He can not be all powerful and all good. If he was all powerful, then he would eradicate evil if he was also all good. Evil exists, therefore God can not.

 

[van-man]

I'm an Augustinian in response to that argument.

But I'm a guy who doesn't really get bothered too much by the evils of the world. They are created by man and inflicted on other men. As I see it, death is a reprieve, from this shit-hole! Yet another reason for my choice to believe in an afterlife eh?

I've got more on thst but I'll save that for tomorrow when the day is younger...

 

[Grizzly]

As I see it, death is a reprieve, from this shit-hole! Yet another reason for my choice to believe in an afterlife eh?...

Yes, but it's also a great support of "Religion is the Opiate of the masses". You choose to believe something, however imporbable, simply because it makes you feel good.

 

[dennis]

Sure, sure, sure. I guess that explains the King James version and the Book of Mormon(technically an adjunct to the Bible, but still a religious document of CHRISTIAN faith).

Grizz ..your not going to lighten up on me are you big guy?I know you are a highly educated man..I can tell this from all your post's.......I will stick to my guns on my beliefs no matter what the world throws at me.The Bible has been translated many times over but it never loses it's original meaning..never.The King james version say's the same thing as the original scribes wrote thousands of years ago..just like the NIV version says the same thing as king james etc...When the dead sea scrolls were uncovered they said the same thing our modern bible says now......The bible is a constant.. it will always be around..it was written by 40 authors over a 1500 year period on 3 different continants..it does not contradict itself anywhere..history has never proven it wrong.I am not sure what to say about your mormon comments..I am not sure what they believe..??Hey grizz..honestly..who do you think created everything you see?