Would Ronnie and Dorian had more Mr O titles if they trained like Phil?

[Desibaba]

I think most of us on here absolutely LOVE watching those old videos of Dorian and Ronnie training balls to the wall in pre contest shape. I mean who doesn't like 800lb deadlifts and squats to motivate us right before we go to the gym even though they both destroyed their bodies in the process.
That being said both of these guys did it when they were close to a contest and none of that really helped built muscle (but impressed us a lot). By now most of us have come to the conclusion that its ultimately genetics that determine how far you will go in this sport.
You can train as hard as you possibly can, be as scientific as you want and have unlimited amounts of drugs at your disposal but you will always get your ass kicked by someone with better genetics compared to someone who doesn't train as hard, parties his ass off (Chris Cormier) yet WINS.
So that being said if Dorian and Ronnie trained more like Phil Heath does would have they have more Mr Olympia wins since their injuries caused their careers to end? Thoughts.

 

[JohnnyD]

Perhaps. You are missing the age factor though. Coleman I believe was in his forties when he lost to younger cutler (about 10years younger )Let's face it, bodybuilding at the mr olympia level is increasingly difficult the older you get. While not impossible it's hard for these guys who are forty plus to compete with guys in their 20s and 30s. Dexter Jackson is the freakish exception to this

 

[Ray9]

Perhaps. You are missing the age factor though. Coleman I believe was in his forties when he lost to younger cutler (about 10years younger )Let's face it, bodybuilding at the mr olympia level is increasingly difficult the older you get. While not impossible it's hard for these guys who are forty plus to compete with guys in their 20s and 30s. Dexter Jackson is the freakish exception to this

Yes, dexters old ass is killing it, wonder when he will retire. And you're right, Coleman was getting old. I think Dorian may have continued if it wasn't for injuries though. So maybe he would be continued if he didn't train as hard as he did, but he may not have won as many Os if he didn't train that hard

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I think most of us on here absolutely LOVE watching those old videos of Dorian and Ronnie training balls to the wall in pre contest shape. I mean who doesn't like 800lb deadlifts and squats to motivate us right before we go to the gym even though they both destroyed their bodies in the process.
That being said both of these guys did it when they were close to a contest and none of that really helped built muscle (but impressed us a lot). By now most of us have come to the conclusion that its ultimately genetics that determine how far you will go in this sport.
You can train as hard as you possibly can, be as scientific as you want and have unlimited amounts of drugs at your disposal but you will always get your ass kicked by someone with better genetics compared to someone who doesn't train as hard, parties his ass off (Chris Cormier) yet WINS.
So that being said if Dorian and Ronnie trained more like Phil Heath does would have they have more Mr Olympia wins since their injuries caused their careers to end? Thoughts.

I think theres a reason for doing what they did. When i cut i prefer to lift as heavy and low as possible. It helps preserve TOTAL body mass as cals get taken away and energy goes out the window. I dont like high rep training when calories are seriously diminished. Surely they must have realized the same thing i did?

 

[Demondosage]

No, because at that level it takes more than most would ever think. Put yates back against Phil's and look at the slabs of muscle on yates. No comparison, only heavy deads can accomplish that

 

[Demondosage]

It's 2 different eras, keep in mind that we are also comparing guys who took the stage larger than Heath and had far less GH bloating, yates took the stage around 263 lbs and very little GH gut , Phil is in the 250's and looks 9 months pregnant. Genetics? Nah, hardcore training prevails!!! But at a cost and for a short time at that level

 

[SuperMaroid]

Its a great question and I dont think anyone can give a "correct" answer to this. But my opinion is that Ronnie and Dorian probably wouldnt have won that many Olmpias if they didnt train the way they did. Ronnie was facing much better competitors than Phil is. Its a complete different era.

 

[sk8rboy]

this era of bodybuilding isn't even the "muscle sculpting" it used to be, now it's just get as big as possible and not care about the stomach size or the actual look of it

 

[Naugahyde]

No, because at that level it takes more than most would ever think. Put yates back against Phil's and look at the slabs of muscle on yates. No comparison, only heavy deads can accomplish that

Not the greatest fan of Dorian's blocky look personally - Levrone deserved at least one Sandow imo - but that back of his was Legend, it's beyond argument.

 

[rutman]

If Phil completed during Ronnie's reign, he'd NEVER win an Olympia.

 

[rugerjitsu]

I think theres a reason for doing what they did. When i cut i prefer to lift as heavy and low as possible. It helps preserve TOTAL body mass as cals get taken away and energy goes out the window. I dont like high rep training when calories are seriously diminished. Surely they must have realized the same thing i did?

I don’t want to derail the thread, but is your training style common during cutting?

I’m no body builder, but I’m assuming most would think it would be the opposite, ie lower weight, high reps/intensity.