Will you get the covid vaccine ?

[NorthMich]

While not everyone is at equal risk for symptoms, everyone without antibodies is equally a transmitter.

Hence the request for everyone to mask and get vaccinated.

Don’t grade schools require immunizations for various things already?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

While not everyone is at equal risk for symptoms, everyone without antibodies is equally a transmitter.

Hence the request for everyone to mask and get vaccinated.

Don’t grade schools require immunizations for various things already?

Not entirely true. Your likelihood of transmission is based on your viral load which equates pretty closely with the impact the virus has on you symptoms wise IIRC.

A “request” and a “demand” are entirely different.

And that IMO is the real debate, not whether the vaccine is safe, is effective, if masks work, etc.

 

[dokdonia]

LOL!

So you think getting the vaccine increases your chances of being infected by 600%.

Wow.

How have all the scientists missed this? LOL!

When they say that "the Covid vaccine has 94% effectiveness" (and there is more than one, and each one has different effectiveness) you have to realize what is being said. That is 94% effectiveness against any sort of infection whatsoever. What this means is, if in a given cohort of unvaccinated persons persons, twenty unvaccinated persons would be infected, then in a cohort of vaccinated persons only one vaccinated person would be infected. THAT is what it means.

And that is just infection. When it comes to hospitalization, serious illness, and death from Covid infection, the Moderna version is 100% effective.

Please try to understand what you are discussing before you start throwing numbers around.

This is false => "That is 94% effectiveness against any sort of infection whatsoever". You need to be careful at what clinical endpoint is being evaluated. In the case of the "94% effective", the clinical endpoint they looked at is hospitalizations / severe outcomes.

Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines Against COVID-19

In U.S. hospitals during January–March 2021, receipt of...

www.cdc.gov

 

[dokdonia]

While not everyone is at equal risk for symptoms, everyone without antibodies is equally a transmitter.

Hence the request for everyone to mask and get vaccinated.

Don’t grade schools require immunizations for various things already?

This is false -=> "everyone without antibodies is equally a transmitter"

Specific T and B cells are also a marker of and confer robust immunity to COVID even in the absence of IgG antibodies.

 

[Random2352313]

Honestly, the vaccine seems rushed to market. Typically human trials take years to complete and supposedly these trials were all conducted the same year that the virus started impacting major cities. In school, I remember studying the fallout from the swine flu vaccination back in the 70s and also the Thalidomide tragedy that occurred in Canada/Europe. Ironically, it was the FDA that prevented Thalidomide from being sold in the US. I'm going to wait a few years until I get the jab

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

Already got it. Pfizer

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Already got it. Pfizer

How’s the 5G reception

 

[dokdonia]

LOL!

So you think getting the vaccine increases your chances of being infected by 600%.

Wow.

How have all the scientists missed this? LOL!

When they say that "the Covid vaccine has 94% effectiveness" (and there is more than one, and each one has different effectiveness) you have to realize what is being said. That is 94% effectiveness against any sort of infection whatsoever. What this means is, if in a given cohort of unvaccinated persons persons, twenty unvaccinated persons would be infected, then in a cohort of vaccinated persons only one vaccinated person would be infected. THAT is what it means.

And that is just infection. When it comes to hospitalization, serious illness, and death from Covid infection, the Moderna version is 100% effective.

Please try to understand what you are discussing before you start throwing numbers around.

Disregard my previous post as I didn't realize that the post being quoted was from Jan and prior to the cited study. But the "That is 94% effectiveness against any sort of infection whatsoever" is still false. In the data submitted for the Moderna EUA that cited "94% effective", the clinical endpoint - a "case" - needed to meet several criteria - one or more symptoms and positive PCR test. It did not pick up asymptomatic cases. Asymptomatic spread is another discussion in and of itself.

Primary Efficacy Endpoint The primary efficacy endpoint was efficacy of the vaccine to prevent protocol-defined COVID-19 occurring at least 14 days after the second dose in participants with negative SARS-CoV-2 status at baseline (i.e., negative RT-PCR and negative serology against SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid on Day 1). The primary analysis was based on the Per-Protocol Set, defined as all randomized, baseline SARS-CoV-2 negative participants who received planned doses per schedule and have no major protocol deviations. For the primary efficacy endpoint, the case definition for a confirmed COVID-19 case was defined as:

• At least TWO of the following systemic symptoms: Fever (≥38ºC), chills, myalgia, headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s), or
• At least ONE of the following respiratory signs/ symptoms: cough, shortness of breath or difficulty breathing, OR clinical or radiographical evidence of pneumonia; and
• NP swab, nasal swab, or saliva sample (or respiratory sample, if hospitalized) positive for SARS-CoV-2 by RT-PCR.

Vaccine effectiveness against asymptomatic infection
Data are limited to assess the effect of the vaccine in preventing asymptomatic infection as measured by detection of the virus and/or detection of antibodies against non-vaccine antigens that would indicate infection rather than an immune response induced by the vaccine. Additional evaluations will be needed to assess the effect of the vaccine in preventing asymptomatic infection, including data from clinical trials and from the vaccine’s use post-authorization

https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download

 

[mugzy]

Guys the chance of getting COVID-19 after the Pfizer vaccination is 0.4%

In the event that you do get COVID after vaccination the symptoms will be reduced by 95%. The term is "Efficacy" not efficiency.

 

[malfeasance]

If my reading and interpretation are correct then no. It is 94% effective at avoiding serious effects from infection. It does not stop infection or spread absolutely. But it’s been a while since I’ve read because I stopped caring.

COVID is not the flu. However, it is FAR more focused in its lethality than the flu. By leaps and bounds IIRC. That means we can be MORE sure of who is at risk and who really isn’t.

The gov and media have done a great job at convincing people who aren’t at risk for serious illness they NEED the shot. And people are taking it to “get back to normal” only to realize there is no normal until the people decide they’re done listening to tyrants.

Asking someone why they aren’t OK with injecting a substance more or less in its experimental stage with the intent of claiming there’s no risk/they have an irrational “fear” is a bit of an odd dynamic being established.

Mac11Wildcat,

Out of respect for how much I have learned from you and enjoyed reading your posts here, I would just encourage you to go and look into what that "94%" means, as you have not stated it correctly.

So, that is not "serious," but any symptoms whatsoever.

The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices’ Interim...

This report describes the interim recommendation made by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices on December 19, 2020, for use of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine in persons aged ≥18 years.

www.cdc.gov

Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine efficacy after 2 doses was 94.1% (95% confidence interval = 89.3%–96.8%) in preventing symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, which was the primary study endpoint.



****


When it comes to unvaccinated folks, about one out of five end up with serious illness. Less than 1% die.

Among the vaccinated - both numbers are zero.

That was for all the vaccines, regardless of the "effectiveness" number, across seven separate trials.


Since then, there have been some hospitalizations among the vaccinated, but still 0 deaths from Covid. Hospitalizations are still 0 for Pfizer, and very drastically reduced for the others.

 

[malfeasance]

Disregard my previous post as I didn't realize that the post being quoted was from Jan and prior to the cited study. But the "That is 94% effectiveness against any sort of infection whatsoever" is still false. In the data submitted for the Moderna EUA that cited "94% effective", the clinical endpoint - a "case" - needed to meet several criteria - one or more symptoms and positive PCR test. It did not pick up asymptomatic cases. Asymptomatic spread is another discussion in and of itself.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download

This is correct.

The CDC has since done a study of thousands of health care workers (vaccinated and unvaccinated) and put out some numbers on asymptomatic transmission, but I can't find it right now.

 

[NorthMich]

Asymptomatic transmission is lower than with those exhibiting symptoms. That seems to be the generally accepted scenario.

But so what? That certainly doesn’t mean asymptomatic people shouldn’t wear a mask. Asymptomatic people are still transmitters.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Asymptomatic transmission is lower than with those exhibiting symptoms. That seems to be the generally accepted scenario.

But so what? That certainly doesn’t mean asymptomatic people shouldn’t wear a mask. Asymptomatic people are still transmitters.

Lol.

So for the sake of argument I’ll just go ahead and agree that it’s really a deadly disease of pandemic proportions and we could all die from it just like nearly 600,000 other Americans.

But you, and others, feel “safe” as long as the people are all wearing a 10 cent, thin paper mask. Your own life or death and that of your family is all dependent on something that is little more than a paper towel?

I find that interesting that so many people believe the mask is saving lives.

 

[malfeasance]

If I am vaccinated, what do I really care if somebody who is asymptomatic is wearing a mask? - Serious question, by the way, not rhetorical or picking a fight.

 

[malfeasance]

How I understood it was only 6% of all the people that have had it died strictly from covid.

The others had serious underlying conditions or old in age

Mighty-mouse - that is true, but, if I am driving drunk and decide to play David Carradine in Death Race 2000 for bonus points at the old folks home (remember that scene?) can I get off the murder charges by claiming that they were old? What if some of them are diabetic? Obese?


Oh, asking for a friend . . .

 

[Mac11wildcat]

If I am vaccinated, what do I really care if somebody who is asymptomatic is wearing a mask? - Serious question, by the way, not rhetorical or picking a fight.

This.

The idea of wanting others to be forced to comply with something for you to “feel” safe is just mind blowing. After being vaccinated is even more wild.

also, again, “should” vs “must.”

Acting as if every other American is a walking death sentence and infecting everything they breathe on is a perfectly acceptable way to spend your life. You are free to do so.

A government treating all citizens as ill until proven not and enforcing such a concept with executive order (not even legislation!) is a problem. If you don’t believe this, then I don’t think we have much to discuss. You either think this way or you don’t. The reaction in the time immediately after the discovery was understandable and warranted. We have 14 months of data now. Let’s start acting like it.

 

[malfeasance]

The reaction in the time immediately after the discovery was understandable and warranted.

I remember when the first videos of folks dying in the streets and in hospital hallways were coming out of China, and I thought, "This could be world ending shit" and wondered why every country did not immediately ban travel from China . . .

Remember all the internet speculation about millions of deaths being covered up by the Chinese and so on?

 

[NorthMich]

I wonder what everyone’s reaction would be to a dental hygienist coming at you with no mask? How about a doctor with no mask doing some day surgery on your arm?

 

[malfeasance]

I wonder what everyone’s reaction would be to a dental hygienist coming at you with no mask? How about a doctor with no mask doing some day surgery on your arm?

Kind of apples to oranges, wouldn't you say?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I wonder what everyone’s reaction would be to a dental hygienist coming at you with no mask? How about a doctor with no mask doing some day surgery on your arm?

LOL. This is supposed to be equivalent to walking by someone breathing normally at the supermarket?

You should do whatever it is that you feel appropriate for you and your families safety. Projecting your needs onto others via executive branch decree is not only ridiculous, it’s dangerous.