Why Bush?

[jbiggs]

Communism was the great fear... now its terrorists. There has be be a antagonist factor to keep the military machine alive, to keep people feeling the need for government to help them.

DaRooster I'll let you SPIN all you want cause it usually shows how naive you are in the world, but when it comes to Communism, I have to draw the line.

I do business in both Russia and Ukraine and I can attest to the evil that was and is Communism. This truly was a government that ruled by fear. The government took away all freedoms. The only thing that was "welfared" to the people was Vodka leading to generations of men unable to fight for their families.

Most are still trying to rectify the 90 years of abuse. Some families probably will never will recover.

 

[DaRooster]

The government is supposed to create equal opprtunity, not do the work for you. To make it achievable to own a home or rent. Read about the fair housing act. Democrates don't need to find us a job but they want to make jobs that can be found. Health insurance should be a right not an benefit.
Do you really think NAFTA is the reason this economy is in a mess? This country was founded on free trade and equal rights. I don't agree with everything NAFTA is about. But its a far cry less of a problem than having a President spending now close to 300 billion on this war, hell bent on invasion, misdirected war on terror efforts and using religion to justify his actions.
The presidency is more influenced by contributions than public sentiment. Any President!!!

 

[Kayz]

And you still think Iraq is about oil???? Then why am I paying $2.30 for gas right now?? We have never relied upon the Middle East for oil.....never. In fact, we only get approximately 20% of our oil from the middle east. The othoer 80% comes from Argentina, Russia, the Gulf, and inside the states....fact!!!!

The key statistic here is that Iraq is the tenth biggest producer but has the second largest amount of proven reserves. Given that the Bush administration is full of oilies, it does suggest that oil is a big motivation in the move to oust Saddam.

In other words, Saddam was sitting on proven oil reserves worth an incredible US$3 trillion based on current oil prices (+US$30).


fyi :
World proven crude oil reserves by country in 2001 (thousand million barrels)

1. Saudi Arabia - 261.8
2. Iraq - 112.5
3. United Arab Emirates - 97.8
4. Kuwait - 96.5
5. Iran - 89.7
6. Venezuela - 77.7
7. Russian Federation - 48.6
8. USA - 30.4
9. Libya - 29.5
10.Mexico - 26.9


11. Nigeria - 24.0
12. China - 24.0
13. Qatar - 15.2
14. Norway - 9.4

BP's Stastical Review of World Energy

LOL....this is your evidence??? Sitting on oil reserves and shipping oil to the US is apples and oranges. If what you are claiming is true, why didn't we just attack UAE??? Why not Qatar??? Why not Libya...which already dismantled its WMD's voluntarily because of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why did we not just stick around in 1991/1992 and pump Kuwait's reserves dry???

We went into Kuwait for the sole purpose of oil.....but not for ourselves. See, teh US does not buy a lot of oil from the middle east. However, Europe buys almost ALL of its oil from that region. When Saddam invaded Kuwait he was fucking with the world economy....and thus the US economy. If he would have halted or decreased Europes oil supply, he would have destroyed the US and world economies.....that is why we got involved. But we didn't take Kuwaits oil supplies. So, why did we take Saddams???

 

[Kayz]

The government is supposed to create equal opprtunity, not do the work for you. To make it achievable to own a home or rent. Read about the fair housing act. Democrates don't need to find us a job but they want to make jobs that can be found. Health insurance should be a right not an benefit.
Do you really think NAFTA is the reason this economy is in a mess? This country was founded on free trade and equal rights. I don't agree with everything NAFTA is about. But its a far cry less of a problem than having a President spending now close to 300 billion on this war, hell bent on invasion, misdirected war on terror efforts and using religion to justify his actions.
The presidency is more influenced by contributions than public sentiment. Any President!!!

ACtually, the mayor of Youngstown, Ohio...whom is a democrat blames NAFTA and Clinton for almost ALL of the manufacturing jobs lost in his highly depressed area. Youngstown and Cleveland have suffered the most since 9/11...and the democratic leadership in that city is campaigning for Bush as he realizes the job situation is the result of clinton.

And I know all about the fair housing act...my g/f is a realtor and my grandfather owns one of the largest real estate firms in my state.

 

[jbiggs]

The government is supposed to create equal opprtunity, not do the work for you. To make it achievable to own a home or rent. Read about the fair housing act. Democrates don't need to find us a job but they want to make jobs that can be found. Health insurance should be a right not an benefit.

Well housing is an at an all time high especially with Afican Americans.

Socialized medicine has been a failure everywhere.
Please show me where the Bill of Rights says Health insurance should be a right?

How is it equal opportunity if 10% of tax payers pay 80% of the taxes?

Statistics just out for October again show an increase in jobs created and lower unemployment.

 

[DaRooster]

The government provides nation defense. Why, to protect and perserve its people. How is providing health care any less important than nation defense?
What if the military said "OK troops find you own health care coverage"... its not our(The DOD) problem.
The reason why socialized health care can find a solid footing is there is not much profit involved.
Nation defense is VERY profitable.
If you look for the money trail you'll find the reason for most every public/social problem.
African americans maybe enjoying more house ownership, but if you study white to black ownership it doesn't look so fair.
as far as unemployment. After a year on unemplyment you no longer counted as unemployed, why? Your no longer add to the Governments list of benefits recieved. Thousands have been unemployed for more than a year. so those stats are mis leading.

 

[jbiggs]

The government provides nation defense. Why, to protect and perserve its people. How is providing health care any less important than nation defense?
What if the military said "OK troops find you own health care coverage"... its not our(The DOD) problem.
The reason why socialized health care can find a solid footing is there is not much profit involved.
Nation defense is VERY profitable.
If you look for the money trail you'll find the reason for most every public/social problem.
African americans maybe enjoying more house ownership, but if you study white to black ownership it doesn't look so fair.

Let's see...the troops are government employees. The government provides health care just as most other employers do!

Find me a country where socialized medicine has worked!

White to Black ownership isn't fair...based on what?

 

[DaRooster]

Reread my post bro, I just told you WHY socialized medicine doesn't work! Its not profitable.
50% of black males in NYC are un or under emlpoyed. Can't pay a mortgage on an unemployment check.
Sorry but most empoyers have little to less health insurance. 80/20 is not mush coverage for catastorphic health problems.

 

[jbiggs]

Reread my post bro, I just told you WHY socialized medicine doesn't work! Its not profitable.
50% of black males in NYC are un or under emlpoyed. Can't pay a mortgage on an unemployment check.
Sorry but most empoyers have little to less health insurance. 80/20 is not mush coverage for catastorphic health problems.

So it won't work cause it's not profitable. So if we moved towards it...where would the money come from.

Should the "wealthy" have to pay for it through taxes? How again would that be an equal opportunity?

So you're basing the entire housing thing on NYC?

 

[DaRooster]

National defense is funded from what source?
Social security is funded from what source?
I don't claim to have the answer, but providing for national health care is ultimatly just as vital as national defense. Find a way to make it profitable and it will happen(socilized medicine)
NYC is just one example. Black unemployment has always been higher than white. That to is misleading in and of its self.

 

[jbiggs]

National defense is funded from what source?
Social security is funded from what source?
I don't claim to have the answer, but providing for national health care is ultimatly just as vital as national defense. Find a way to make it profitable and it will happen(socilized medicine)
NYC is just one example. Black unemployment has always been higher than white. That to is misleading in and of its self.

National Defense has always been the role of government and therefore funded by taxes.

Social Security is also funded by taxes, but flawed in its use.

Socialized Medicine won't work. Even if you try to make it profitable, too many problems when the government goes into a business.

An example...The most qualified to be doctors would go elsewhere. In Russia, doctors quit to work in the coal minds where they made more money.

As you said..."follow the money trail" professionals go where the most is to be made.

 

[Grizzly]

Think my head is going to explode. Why did I come back to read this?

 

[jbiggs]

Think my head is going to explode. Why did I come back to read this?

Hey Grizz,

I feel your pain!

 

[Kayz]

Socialized medicine will NEVER be profitable because the governmetn will not let it be profitable because since they are paying for it, they want rock bottom prices.

This is the reason for the flu shot shortage. Only 2 companies, Chiron and Adventis, make the vaccine. 30 years ago, 5 companies made it. However, the governments around the world account for about 70% of all vaccination sales....which kills the profit margin for the companies making it. 3 of the 5 said "fuck it, we aren't doing this anymore". That combined with the frivelous lawsuits regarding vaccinations (i.e: john edwards) just doesn't make it worht their while.

Chiron, a company based in LIverpool, had 55 million dosages thrown out when the British governmetn found they were contaminated....that is over 50% of the worlds supply.

There are 2 solutions:

1) the government needs to get into the business of making meds.....which is a bad idea.

2) the government needs to quit buying up all the shots at a ridiculous low price, let the pharmacies and doctors buy them direct...and allow the market to dictate the price....not the government.

If #2 happens, you will have enough vaccines to vaccinate every body in the world twice!!!!

 

[Grizzly]

I'll let you have my two shots, Kayz. I don't need that shit. I've got Jim Beam and there ain't NO germ that can survive that shit.

One time, I had the clap, so I dunked my dick in a cup of Beam. Burned like hell, but it sure did cure my poor little wanger. Of course, I couldn't waste good whiskey, so I drank the cup when I was done.



Uhhhhhh, that was just a joke story. I didn't really have the clap.

 

[jbiggs]

I'll let you have my two shots, Kayz. I don't need that shit. I've got Jim Beam and there ain't NO germ that can survive that shit.

One time, I had the clap, so I dunked my dick in a cup of Beam. Burned like hell, but it sure did cure my poor little wanger. Of course, I couldn't waste good whiskey, so I drank the cup when I was done.



Uhhhhhh, that was just a joke story. I didn't really have the clap.

Dipped for fun? LOL

 

[Grizzly]

No, I used it to stir a drink I was serving to someone.

 

[jbiggs]

No, I used it to stir a drink I was serving to someone.

"What the hell, is that cream on top"

 

[Liv2grw]

LOL....this is your evidence??? Sitting on oil reserves and shipping oil to the US is apples and oranges. If what you are claiming is true, why didn't we just attack UAE??? Why not Qatar??? Why not Libya...which already dismantled its WMD's voluntarily because of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

why not? Iraq (112.5) has the second largest reserve in the world that is plenty enough reason and by the way libya (29.5) and Qatar (15.2 )doesnt have nearly the amount Iraq is sitting on , also they didnt attempt to kill George bush sr. another obvious reason Georgie Jr. attacked Iraq , oh and kuwait isnt sitting on as much as Iraq fyi. That is a FACT

 

[Kayz]

No, I used it to stir a drink I was serving to someone.

So is your dick like the size of a coffee straw???