Who here is on a statin?

[Anonymous35]

And yes kidney desease is common from bodybuilder and guys using steroid in general

I know lot bodybuilder who had some kidney desease even on my small circle of friend
and even famous bodybuilder
Bostin loyd, cBUm, dallas mccarver, flex wheeler…

 

[Sicsemptyran]

And yes kidney desease is common from bodybuilder and guys using steroid in general

I know lot bodybuilder who had some kidney desease even on my small circle of friend
and even famous bodybuilder
Bostin loyd, cBUm, dallas mccarver, flex wheeler…

Cbum literally has a well known autoimmune condition which is unrelated to anything regarding AAS.

You have no clue what you’re talking about.

 

[Anonymous35]

Cbum literally has a well known autoimmune condition which is unrelated to anything regarding AAS.

You have no clue what you’re talking about.

i never said it was from steroid moron
I said kidney desease

 

[Sicsemptyran]

i never said it was from steroid moron
I said kidney desease

Oh what BS. You’re implying it is related to his bodybuilding.

Look, while general consensus should never alone be a gauge of correctness, there is a distinct reason that multiple, very knowledgeable people continue to dislike your posts and say you are wrong.

You have a specific experience that simply does not carry over to the general population, what is standard in a hospital which is paid for primarily by a single-payer system could not be any less representative of what would make sense for the astute AAS user who likely has access to and is engaging in a private payer system. It’s just not.

And feel free to shove your comments about academic pedigree where the sun doesn’t shine, what an obscenely obtuse comment to make. I’d wager a bet that many people in this thread have more academic experience than you (despite that being essentially meaningless for the purposes of this discussion, for reasons @egruberman has elucidated multiple times).

 

[BamaCrazy]

Oh what BS. You’re implying it is related to his bodybuilding.

Look, while general consensus should never alone be a gauge of correctness, there is a distinct reason that multiple, very knowledgeable people continue to dislike your posts and say you are wrong.

You have a specific experience that simply does not carry over to the general population, what is standard in a hospital which is paid for primarily by a single-payer system could not be any less representative of what would make sense for the astute AAS user who likely has access to and is engaging in a private payer system. It’s just not.

And feel free to shove your comments about academic pedigree where the sun doesn’t shine, what an obscenely obtuse comment to make. I’d wager a bet that many people in this thread have more academic experience than you (despite that being essentially meaningless for the purposes of this discussion, for reasons @egruberman has elucidated multiple times).

I don’t know why you keep trying. It’s futile. Lol

 

[Sicsemptyran]

I don’t know why you keep trying. It’s futile. Lol

Yeah - I keep disengaging and then he says something else that draws me back in, lol. The harm reduction part just makes me feel like I need to not let someone think they should be listening to his advice.

Though, I suppose if someone isn't able to discern that then maybe they deserve his advice.

 

[egruberman]

I never said it was the same i said 20 mg atorvastatin has mostly the same effect as rosuvastatin but different side effects

You literally wrote the following:

But atorvastatin is 2 times less potent as rosuvastatin

This statement is patently false. What is true is that providers have a rule of thumb that 1mg Rosuvastatin is equivalent to 2mg Atorvastatin regardless of the fact that the efficacy isn't 2:1.

And no your just a moron its not just when you are on dialyse its already not recommended when you had CKD at least in france

I'm just a moron? Do I seem like a moron to you?

What is recommended in France represents a host of factors likely more complex than we have time to discuss, but there are more things to consider beyond simply efficacy and safety.

Thats why atorvastatin in france is the most prescribed statin and also in the world

There are two "high intensity" statins, Atorvastatin and Rosuvastatin. Atorvastatin is older, became generic in 2011, 5 years earlier than Rosuvastatin, and has more safety data. In spite of the greater potential for adverse side effects and the other benefits of Rosuvatatin, it continues to be recommended for first line high intensity statin monotherapy. It is the product of inertia and the choice most likely to have a positive outcome across a large population of standard Americans, i.e. prediabetic, obese, high blood pressure, and terrible lipids.

Hint: nobody here is your standard American.

Its crazy how as a professional health i had to justify myself to people who stop studing at 15yo lmao

It's crazy that nobody blindly accepts the opinion of a child fresh out of school with little real world experience? If I'm willing to question the American College of Cardiology recommendations, do you think it would be odd that I might question yours?

So yeah if rosuvastatin is so much better than atorvastatin why doctor still prefer used atorvastatin ?

Explained up thread.

 

[Sampei]

I have never wanted anyone banned from this board but shit I would pay money to have him banned instantly. NO JOKE,

 

[bubba618]

2019 ESC/EAS Guidelines for the management of dyslipidaemias: lipid modification to reduce cardiovascular risk

Skip to page 137 for discussion on the use of statins. The following is the discussion of adverse renal effects.

8.1.4.5 Adverse Effects on Kidney Function
There is no clear evidence that statins have a clinically significant beneficial or adverse effect on renal function. An increased frequency of proteinuria has been reported for all statins, but this has been analyzed in more detail for rosuvastatin.

At a dose of 80 mg, a frequency of proteinuria of 12% was reported. However, with approved doses of ≤40 mg, the frequency is much lower and comparable to that of other statins. The proteinuria induced by statins is of tubular origin, usually transient, and is believed to result from reduced tubular reabsorption rather than glomerular dysfunction.

In clinical trials, the frequency of proteinuria is generally low and, in most cases, not higher than that observed with placebo.

In France, the regulation and prescribing of drugs like statins involve several key government bodies. The ANSM (French National Agency for the Safety of Medicines and Health Products) ensures that statins meet safety, efficacy, and quality standards. The HAS (High Authority for Health) evaluates the clinical value and therapeutic benefits of medications, helping to determine which drugs should be reimbursed by the national health insurance system. The CEPS (Economic Committee for Health Products) negotiates drug prices with pharmaceutical companies to ensure affordability while maintaining access to effective treatments. Finally, the national health insurance system (Assurance Maladie) implements these recommendations by encouraging the use of cost-effective medications, such as generic versions of statins, through reimbursement policies.

Atorvastatin, being an older pharmaceutical that has been available in generic form for a long time, is currently the more cost-effective choice for statin-based lipid management. Over time, as generic rosuvastatin becomes more widely available and competitively priced, it is likely to emerge as the more cost-effective option due to its higher potency and LDL-lowering efficacy. Together, these regulatory and economic frameworks prioritize affordable and effective healthcare solutions.

I hope that answers the question of why a low-level pharmacy technician would see atorvastatin prescriptions more than rosuvastatin prescriptions... at least for the time being. Now if we were dealing with a doctor or an actual pharmacist, they would have likely presented the same information with additional anecdotal evidence of their own.

 

[egruberman]

What is recommended in France represents a host of factors likely more complex than we have time to discuss

Well, I guess some folks have the time.

 

[Anonymous35]

2019 ESC/EAS Guidelines for the management of dyslipidaemias: lipid modification to reduce cardiovascular risk

Skip to page 137 for discussion on the use of statins. The following is the discussion of adverse renal effects.



In France, the regulation and prescribing of drugs like statins involve several key government bodies. The ANSM (French National Agency for the Safety of Medicines and Health Products) ensures that statins meet safety, efficacy, and quality standards. The HAS (High Authority for Health) evaluates the clinical value and therapeutic benefits of medications, helping to determine which drugs should be reimbursed by the national health insurance system. The CEPS (Economic Committee for Health Products) negotiates drug prices with pharmaceutical companies to ensure affordability while maintaining access to effective treatments. Finally, the national health insurance system (Assurance Maladie) implements these recommendations by encouraging the use of cost-effective medications, such as generic versions of statins, through reimbursement policies.

Atorvastatin, being an older pharmaceutical that has been available in generic form for a long time, is currently the more cost-effective choice for statin-based lipid management. Over time, as generic rosuvastatin becomes more widely available and competitively priced, it is likely to emerge as the more cost-effective option due to its higher potency and LDL-lowering efficacy. Together, these regulatory and economic frameworks prioritize affordable and effective healthcare solutions.

I hope that answers the question of why a low-level pharmacy technician would see atorvastatin prescriptions more than rosuvastatin prescriptions... at least for the time being. Now if we were dealing with a doctor or an actual pharmacist, they would have likely presented the same information with additional anecdotal evidence of their own.

Do you think that i don’t work with pharmacist and doctor ?

it will likely maybe, but not right now

And at the hospital we don’t care about the Price, and generic or not
We don’t even have rosuvastatin in stock
Only ator and pravastatin

btw sempey or whatever your name, you can’t banned me until i broke any rules of the forum which i didn’t

All of you didn’t studied anything about the human body, you only read studies on the internet but that doesn’t make you an expert,

And being older doen’t make you more knowledgeable at all
I have some coworker who don’t know shit
They still think vitamine C at night will cause insomnia lmao
most of the Time older people are at best more boomer at they are old lmao thats it


you state also « here we are not the typical american » great so you pretent to be healthier ? Okay so if your healthier why do you need a stronger statin ?
Why not pravastatin or even fluvastatin ? They are the safest
Why are you excessive in terme of medication ?
Why some of you want their cholestérol ldl bellow 30 ? Do you not think that get of the abuse dose of steroid and start some cardio at zone 3 or 4 ?
Do you not think that it will be more healthier than a guys on test tren but a strong dose of telmisartan / rosuvastatin

What next your glycemic is at 0,9g/L so now your gonna go on metformin ?
When did it stop ? Most of you had an hyponchondriac syndrome i guess which is weird for guys on PEDs

 

[Anonymous35]

You literally wrote the following:



This statement is patently false. What is true is that providers have a rule of thumb that 1mg Rosuvastatin is equivalent to 2mg Atorvastatin regardless of the fact that the efficacy isn't 2:1.



I'm just a moron? Do I seem like a moron to you?

What is recommended in France represents a host of factors likely more complex than we have time to discuss, but there are more things to consider beyond simply efficacy and safety.



There are two "high intensity" statins, Atorvastatin and Rosuvastatin. Atorvastatin is older, became generic in 2011, 5 years earlier than Rosuvastatin, and has more safety data. In spite of the greater potential for adverse side effects and the other benefits of Rosuvatatin, it continues to be recommended for first line high intensity statin monotherapy. It is the product of inertia and the choice most likely to have a positive outcome across a large population of standard Americans, i.e. prediabetic, obese, high blood pressure, and terrible lipids.

Hint: nobody here is your standard American.



It's crazy that nobody blindly accepts the opinion of a child fresh out of school with little real world experience? If I'm willing to question the American College of Cardiology recommendations, do you think it would be odd that I might question yours?



Explained up thread.

I want to use equivalent but i wasn’t sure it was the exact same word in english so i use a different word

 

[Sicsemptyran]

And at the hospital we don’t care about the Price, and generic or not
We don’t even have rosuvastatin in stock
Only ator and pravastatin

The fact that you don’t understand basic payer system economics is only further proof you should quit while you’re ahead.

You don’t care about the price as a pharmacist tech who just has to put pills in a bottle. But you’re truly delusional if you think the hospital and the single payer in your country (the government) does not.

 

[Anonymous35]

The fact that you don’t understand basic payer system economics is only further proof you should quit while you’re ahead.

You don’t care about the price as a pharmacist tech who just has to put pills in a bottle. But you’re truly delusional if you think the hospital and the single payer in your country (the government) does not.

We don’t at my hospital at least the amount of med that go the trach daily is crazy so no we don’t care about the price especially low Price like statin everything less than 10€ per pill is not even put back in stock even if the box is full it goes to the trash (cyclamed)

And about generic princeps same we don’t care, we give what we have at the moment so for 2 month it’s gonna be aldactone then spironolactone and so on


Price is only important for officine but mostly the pharmacist that’s it and again Its mostly about generic

in france it’s not the same as USa and it’s public not private

No no need to insult me
And the difference of price between rosuvastatin and atorvastatin generic its not a lot
Ator 3,92€ and rosu 5,36€ it not that big of difference
Plus the doctor don’t know the price for the most part

 

[Sicsemptyran]

No no need to insult me

You have called me a moron multiple times despite my (albeit clearly futile) willingness to engage with you.

I really do have to stop responding. Have a great evening.

 

[bubba618]

@Anonymous35, I initially considered responding to your posts in detail again, but it has become clear that you are unwilling to engage in a constructive or honest discussion. You seem eager to present yourself as an expert in pharmaceutical matters, yet when faced with medical research and explanations about how policy and standards of care are established in your own nation, your responses rely on emotional appeals, unsubstantiated claims, and ad hominem attacks.

Frankly, I question whether you hold a license to practice as a pharmacy technician, as your inability to provide evidence to support your positions is concerning. A professional in this field should be able to reference specific medical, pharmaceutical, or governmental publications to substantiate their statements, but you have consistently failed to do so.

 

[Anonymous35]

@Anonymous35, I initially considered responding to your posts in detail again, but it has become clear that you are unwilling to engage in a constructive or honest discussion. You seem eager to present yourself as an expert in pharmaceutical matters, yet when faced with medical research and explanations about how policy and standards of care are established in your own nation, your responses rely on emotional appeals, unsubstantiated claims, and ad hominem attacks.

Frankly, I question whether you hold a license to practice as a pharmacy technician, as your inability to provide evidence to support your positions is concerning. A professional in this field should be able to reference specific medical, pharmaceutical, or governmental publications to substantiate their statements, but you have consistently failed to do so.

Btw i just see a cardiologist and so i ask some question about cholesterol
He told me this « without any problems in the past like heart attac and so on, we want to be below 1,3g/l cholesterol ldl but not much lower then maintain

And if you had historic cardiac even than its below 0,55g/l

And then i ask about ? Okay but its okay to be around zero ?
He respond « never ever, our brain need it »

It is not what i have state multiples times ?

So now what your gonna tell me that he is wrong ? Lmao
I told you i was right and you’re wrong but you continue to think you know more you don’t
There is medical studies for a reason you can’t learn more by just read studies online

Plus those studies arn’t on men on steroids

 

[Anonymous35]

@Anonymous35, I initially considered responding to your posts in detail again, but it has become clear that you are unwilling to engage in a constructive or honest discussion. You seem eager to present yourself as an expert in pharmaceutical matters, yet when faced with medical research and explanations about how policy and standards of care are established in your own nation, your responses rely on emotional appeals, unsubstantiated claims, and ad hominem attacks.

Frankly, I question whether you hold a license to practice as a pharmacy technician, as your inability to provide evidence to support your positions is concerning. A professional in this field should be able to reference specific medical, pharmaceutical, or governmental publications to substantiate their statements, but you have consistently failed to do so.

I have to give you a study that claims that steroids are bad for your heart
And that you should done cardio zone 3/4 to have the best Vo2 max possible
Because its the most important factor in term of cardiovasculaire health

I don’t show you the the studies because its so obvious that it’s true lmao
To be honest the more i talk with you the more i think your just a bunch of retarded people
I’m glad i work at the hospital now and don’t have to deal with moron like you at the officine

because explaining the evidence 24/7 to low IQ people is crazy

 

[Babygeei]

ApoB of 99mg/dL doesn’t fall into the realm of extremely bad. Under 80mg/dL is preferable for those with no other risk factors, per Tom Dayspring. You could add another compound and probably be fine. Most bang for the buck will be low dose Rosuvastatin.

On the other hand, the Lp(a) number is quite concerning. It’s wholly the product of genetics and doesn’t respond to typical lipid management interventions. The only thing that helps is a PCSK9i. I would encourage you to get tested again to see if it’s an outlier. I’ve been doing the CardioIQ test for years and I have one anomalous result for Lp(a).

Lo(a) independently increases risk apart from ApoB, it’s extremely inflammatory and will increase the progression of atherosclerosis.

If the value is legit, I would encourage to to manage your lipids more aggressively, get a CT-CAC, and go easy on the AAS.

Just recently got my results back for the Cardio IQ test after being on 5mg Rosuvastatin and 5mg Ezetimibe for around a month. I'm pretty happy with the results outside of my high Lp(a) not being an anomaly. I'm now going to add bempedoic acid and retest in 4-6 weeks. I will try to inquire about repatha but my doctor doesn't know I take anything for cholesterol so not sure how that will go. I also have a CT-CAC I took in April of 2024. I will take another one in April this year.

 

[BamaCrazy]

Just recently got my results back for the Cardio IQ test after being on 5mg Rosuvastatin and 5mg Ezetimibe for around a month. I'm pretty happy with the results outside of my high Lp(a) not being an anomaly. I'm now going to add bempedoic acid and retest in 4-6 weeks. I will try to inquire about repatha but my doctor doesn't know I take anything for cholesterol so not sure how that will go. I also have a CT-CAC I took in April of 2024. I will take another one in April this year.

That’s a huge improvement from the last set of labs. And the CAC score has got to be a relief.