Weatherlite said:
Here's what I don't get....or rather what really confuses me. The Qur'an states that any sex outside of marriage (meaning sex while single or sex with someone other than your spouse) is considered adultery. This adultery is punishable by 80 or 100 lashes. However, some Islamic law makes a different distinction and gives lashes for sex out of wedlock and stoning for extramarital sex. Other Islamic law just uses stoning regardless.
There are exceptions though such as rape. In rape cases the woman is not at fault. Another exception is for slaves or captives. If a man chooses to have sex with a captive or slave then it is not considered adultery (even if he is married) because he OWNS the property! The slave is not committing adultery either even if she is married. BUT, she IS committing adultery if she consents to the sex. So basically, she has to be raped in order for her to NOT commit adultery. But this now becomes a catch 22 because according to the Qur'an she is not being raped because the owner is allowed to do it.
Apparently there was even a large dillema among Arabs way back in the day as to what they should do. I'm not an Islamic historian so if I get it a little wrong I apologize...but basically there was a requirement that you do not "pull out" of a woman for some reason. However, they didm't want to get their captive women pregnant because that would reduce their ransom value so they went to Muhammed and were told that they did not have to pull out and not to worry....they wouldn't get pregnant.
Back to the stoning....more proof about how the non-westernized/progressive states don't treat women as the Qur'an dictates. A woman was recently stoned to death in Afghanistan. Her husband went to Iran for 5 years. When he came back she asked for divorce/separation. Here's where it becomes a bit blurry. The story is that she was cheating on him so she was convicted and stoned to death. However, her lover only received 100 lashes from a whip. Speculation (and some stories from those who knew the husband) is that he made up the accusations in order to have her killed so that he would not have to grant her a divorce which would basically be a HUGE embarrassment to him and his family.
So, the two questions are....why did the two receive different punishments for the same crime? My opinion, because of their different sexes. Also, even if it is true that they committed adultery, where was the proof? According to the Qur'an there must be either 4 witnesses who saw the actual act, the participants must confess or the spouse must make a sworn statement 4 times that it indeed happened and then must make a fifth statement that if he is lying he welcomes the wrath of Allah. I have read far too many cases in which none of this was present and the religious council ruled based upon what they felt would be best (which was usually in favor of the husband).
What I also found interesting though (yet in all of the cases I have read has never been used) was that if the husband made the 5 statements the wife could nullify them by making a counter-statement 4 times and making the same fifth statement.
Also, if 4 witnesses are there watching this act then aren't they then guilty of some sin/crime as well? Shouldn't they be punished too?
STONING
1. The issue regarding the punishment by lashes or stoning is due to the circumstances. The Qur'an does stipulate lashes for fornication: Chapter 24, v 2, "The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse-lash each one of them a hundred lashes..."
The Hadith (Prophetic tradition) deals with adultery: Narrated 'Ubada bin As-Samit: Allah's Messenger said, "When the parties are unmarried they shall receive a hundred lashes and be banished for a year. When they commit fornication after marriage they shall receive hundred lashes and be stoned to death."
The punishment does not discriminate between sexes. If the situation that occurred in Afghanistan is accurate. Then to the best of my knowledge this is un-Islamic. Shaykh Abdullah ibn Jibreen (a scholar amongst the Islamic scholars) has said, "Some of the Companions (of the Prophet Muhammad) fixed the maximum length of time for which a husband may be absent at four months, and some of them at half a year, but this is after the wife requests her husband's return. So if half a year passes and she requests his return and he is able to, he must do so. If he refuses, she may submit the matter to a Judge in order to have the marriage annulled." The woman was well within her rights to request for a divorce.
I cannot answer why they did not rule by what has been revealed. It could be out of ignorance, or simply to give the male preference over the woman. If it was the latter, then their judgment will be with Allah. Again, unfortunately an Islamic state does not exist. Many rulers make secular (or man-made) legislations and sprinkle a couple Islamic laws with it, and say "we now have an Islamic country." It doesn't work that way. As one scholar stated, "we must remember that Shari'a (islamic law) was revealed first and foremost to grant and protect the rights of people."
If the witnesses were observing with the intentions of being credible, then there wouldn't be any harm against them, for they did not engage in any unlawful act. The proof for adultery can either be by witnesses, or the by admission of the adulterer/adulteress. However, it would only apply to the person who confesses the act. You are correct about the counter-statement, and this was done to protect the woman. Essentially, she has the final word regarding the matter.
SLAVERY/CONCUBINE
The man is allowed to have concubines, and he is also permitted to have sexual relations with her. I am not an expert so I cannot go into much detail. I willl need to conduct more research on the matter. But from my understanding, he can have relations with her whether she grants him permission or not, but I have not heard of any cases where a man had a concubine and she was married to someone else. There is no sin on her whether she gives consent or not. Concerning the "pulling out" (coitus interruptus) account, it is as this: "A man said, 'O Messenger of Allah! I have a slave girl and I practice coitus interruptus with her, because I DISLIKE THAT SHE SHOULD BECOME PREGNANT. But I want (from her) what men want from her; and the Jews say that coitus interruptus is the minor form of burying alive." He (the Prophet Muhammad) replied: "The Jews told a lie, for if Allah wishes to create it, you would not be able to turn it away." Meaning it is one's preference, and not an obligation to practice "pulling out" with the concubine. I don't believe you can take a captive, have sex with her, and then ransom her back to her family. Additionally, it is not the individual who takes the captive, that right belongs to the leader of the Muslims, who will make the decision who gets what or whom.
I hope this helps some.
Your questions are intriguing, and I am impressed.
] So you believe in shapeshifting and that you're protected by animal spirits, that you can traverse realms and dimensions by climbing a tree, and whatnot. Right? The vast majority of these types of religions have biblical influences. For example, as I understand it Taliesin thought to have transformed himself into other forms and animals in his attempt to escape the Goddess Ceridwen after imbibing of the brew of inspiration and wisdom. Correct? Sound a little like Adam and Eve trying to hide from God after they ate from the tree of knowledge??
