What do you think of this ppl x2 training for the first cycle?

badg96

New Member
I'm going to start my 1 cycle of testosterone enanthate and tbol and I was wondering if you find this workout for first cycle?

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):

Flat Barbell Bench Press: 3x5
Seated (or Standing) Barbell Shoulder/Overhead Press: 3x5
Incline Barbell Bench Press: 3x5
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10-12
Rope Pushdowns (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Overhead Dumbbell Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3x10-12
Shrugs(circuit machine or dumbbells): 3x10-12

Pull (Back/Biceps):

Barbell Rows: 3x5
Lat Pulldowns with (Long Bar or V-bar) (circuit machine): 3x8-10
Seated Rows (circuit machine) - optional if already doing barbell rows: 3x8-10
Face-pulls: 3x-10-12
Barbell Bicep Curls (Alternate between close and normal grip): 4x-10-12
Choice of one other bicep exercise (typically Hammer Curls): 3x10-12

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):

Barbell Squats: 4x5-6
Leg Press (optional if already doing above squats): 3x8-10
Leg Extensions (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Hamstring Curls (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Standing Calf Raises (circuit machine): 5x10-12
 
Not a big fan of all the 3 x 5 stuff. That’s pretty low volume.
I can see doing your very first compound exercise, after your warmed up doing 3x5 working sets. But then the rest more volume, if your looking for bodybuilding type physique. So for chest if your doing 3 exercises

Flat bench 1x10, 1x8, 3x5
Incline bench 4x8-12
Then accessory work/flies.

then shoulders and triceps.

hitting biggest muscle hard at first, then working youe way to smaller more taxed woth higher volume.

edit- you will be strongest during the first exercise, which is why compound lifts are best done first. Most of the time.
Squats, DL, chest press, lat pulldowns. Etc. and of course dont just start doing 3x315 for chest right off the bat.
 
I am currently using a: Pull (back), Push (chest/shoulders), Legs, Arms, Off, Push/Pull (back/chest/shoulder), Off programs and I am seeing great results. Normally looking for high volume (hypertrophy), so sets are 8 reps are higher. Not too many power movements.

What are you looking to do?
 
would it be better already?

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):

Barbell Bench Press: 3×12
Military Press: 3×12
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 3×12
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3×12 + 1 drop set
Triceps Push Down: 3×15 + 1 drop set
Overhead Cable Triceps Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3×15
Barbell or Dumbbell Shrugs: 3×12

Pull Workout (Back/Biceps):

Barbell Rows: 3×12
Wide Grip Lat Pulldowns (1.5xshoulder width): 3×12
Deadlifts: 3×12
Face-pulls: 3×12
Barbell Bicep Curls (Alternate between close and normal grip): 3×28 Method
(28 Method: 7 full reps, 7 slow reps, 7 reps at the top half phase of the movement, and then 7 reps at the bottom half of the movement)
Dumbbell Preacher Curls (focus on negatives): 3×15
Reverse Barbell Curl: 3×15

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves/Abs):

Barbell Squats: 3×12
Lunges: 3×12
Leg Extensions: 3×12
Lying Leg Curls: 3×12
Calf Raises: 3×15
Bicycle crunch: 3×10
Leg Raises: 3×15
Russian Twists: 3×10
Weighted Decline Crunches: 3×10
 
I am currently using a: Pull (back), Push (chest/shoulders), Legs, Arms, Off, Push/Pull (back/chest/shoulder), Off programs and I am seeing great results. Normally looking for high volume (hypertrophy), so sets are 8 reps are higher. Not too many power movements.

What are you looking to do?
I don't care much about the strength I wanted to gain as much muscle as possible
 
would it be better already?


Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):

Barbell Bench Press: 3×12
Military Press: 3×12
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 3×12
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3×12 + 1 drop set
Triceps Push Down: 3×15 + 1 drop set
Overhead Cable Triceps Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3×15
Barbell or Dumbbell Shrugs: 3×12

Pull Workout (Back/Biceps):

Barbell Rows: 3×12
Wide Grip Lat Pulldowns (1.5xshoulder width): 3×12
Deadlifts: 3×12
Face-pulls: 3×12
Barbell Bicep Curls (Alternate between close and normal grip): 3×28 Method
(28 Method: 7 full reps, 7 slow reps, 7 reps at the top half phase of the movement, and then 7 reps at the bottom half of the movement)
Dumbbell Preacher Curls (focus on negatives): 3×15
Reverse Barbell Curl: 3×15

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves/Abs):

Barbell Squats: 3×12
Lunges: 3×12
Leg Extensions: 3×12
Lying Leg Curls: 3×12
Calf Raises: 3×15
Bicycle crunch: 3×10
Leg Raises: 3×15
Russian Twists: 3×10
Weighted Decline Crunches: 3×10

That looks much better, 3x5 isn't for me either. I much prefer reps of 8-12, or even 12-15 for isolation exercises like triceps and biceps and calves.

A few notes in no particular order:

1. For your current days I think you should switch the order of a couple exercises. Do the incline DB press before the military press. Otherwise, you are unnecessarily taxing your shoulders, which can cause your incline press to suffer. I always prefer to get my chest stuff done before my shoulders, I find it gives me a better chest workout as well as a better shoulder workout.

2. Personally, I like to do shrugs on pull day and hammys on leg day, but that’s just me. It doesn’t really matter that much.

3. You have a LOT of curls in there. Are you lacking biceps and really trying to hit them hard? Personally I would sub out one of your curls for some chin ups and do it early in the routine.

4. I greatly prefer reverse lunges to regular lunges, they take up less space and IMO give a better workout.

5. IMO I am not a fan of on-the-floor ab workouts. They just don’t feel very efficient. I MUCH prefer hanging leg exercises. My favorite is hanging vertical knee raises. I will do 30 reps x 3 sets on back day (twice per week). One day one I do straight up vertical knee raises, and on day 2 I do a “rainbow” motion. I get a a huge ab burn that is way better than any other ab exercise and gets the whole system of abs. I do still like Russian twists though.


My only big concern: you said PPL x2 program, are you planning on doing PPLPPLrest on a 7-day rotation? So does that mean you will lift 6 days then rest 1 day?

If so, you need to come up with a second PPL routine. Doing the same exercises over and over again isn't ideal. It can cause more strain than necessary on connective tissue and in cause uneven muscle growth and reinforce weak points. You are much better off coming up with a second set of PPL exercises for each day. For a 6 day routine, I have 6 different days of varying lifts. There is definitely overlap, but for example:

Currently PPLPPL rest would have you doing the same exercises over and over:
Push Exercise Group 1
Pull Exercise Group 1
Legs Exercise Group 1
Push Exercise Group 1
Pull Exercise Group 1
Legs Exercise Group 1
Rest

Vs switching it up (I currently run a program like this):
Push Exercise Group 1
Pull Exercise Group 1
Legs Exercise Group 1
Push Exercise Group 2
Pull Exercise Group 2
Legs Exercise Group 2
Rest


I take an extra day of rest every 2 weeks or so. Remember to listen to your body.

So I might suggest something like for PPLPPLrest:

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders): Push Group 1
Barbell Bench Press
: 3×12
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 3×12
Military Press: 3×12 (I would recommend trying the Arnold Press here instead. See my post in this thread for more info).
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3×12 + 1 drop set
Cable Pushdown: 3×15 + 1 drop set (consider alternating between pronated and supinated grip to work all the heads of the tricep)
Overhead Cable Triceps Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3×15
Dumbbell Shrugs: 3×15

Pull Workout (Back/Biceps): Pull Group 1
Barbell Rows:
3×12
Wide Grip Lat Pulldowns (1.5xshoulder width): 3×12
Deadlifts: 3×12
Face-pulls: 3×12
Barbell Bicep Curls (Alternate between close and normal grip): 3×28 Method
Dumbbell Preacher Curls (focus on negatives): 3×15

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves/Abs): Legs Group 1
Barbell Squats
: 3×12 (make you you get deep)
Reverse Lunges: 3×12
Leg Extensions: 3×12 (if you really must...you even shouldn't need them after the squats and lunges)
Calf Raises: 3×15-20 (between 15 and 20 reps, don’t neglect your soleus muscle!)
Bicycle crunch: 3×10
Leg Raises: 3×15
Russian Twists: 3×10
Weighted Decline Crunches: 3×10

Anyway, after you’ve gone through the first group of PPL, now you do it again, but switch things up:

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders): Push Group 2
Spoto Press:
3×10
Decline Press: 3x12
Hex Press or Dumbbell Flys: 3×10-12
Single Arm Landmine Press or Single Arm Dumbbell OHP: 3x12
Incline Side-Lying Lateral Raise: 3×12
Dips (use a dip machine or do band-assisted dips if needed to get your reps in): 3x12-15
Skull Crushers: 3x12 (using a multi-grip bar if you have access to one, or an EZ bar)
Barbell Shrugs: 3×12

Pull Workout (Back/Biceps): Pull Group 2
Barbell Rows
: 3×12
Pull Ups: 4x10
Romanian Deadlifts: 3×12
Reverse Flys: 3×12
Alternating Dumbbell Bicep/Hammer Curls: 3x14 (This is: right arm bicep curl, left arm bicep curl, right arm hammer curl, left arm hammer curl, repeat). It gives a different feel to the workout and works your muscles more evenly.
EZ Bar Reverse Curls: 3×15 (standing or preacher are both fine)

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves/Abs): Legs Group 2
Zercher Squats
: 3×12
Dumbbell Bulgarian Split Squats: 3×12
Romanian Deadlift: 3x10
Glute Bridge: 3x12-15
Calf Raises: 3×15-20 (between 15 and 20 reps, don’t neglect your soleus muscle!)
Ankle Weighted Standing Hip Abduction: 3x15-20
Hanging Vertical Knee Raises: 3 sets x 20-30 reps! Feel the burn!!

Anyway, that is a solid start for you.
 
That looks much better, 3x5 isn't for me either. I much prefer reps of 8-12, or even 12-15 for isolation exercises like triceps and biceps and calves.

A few notes in no particular order:

1. For your current days I think you should switch the order of a couple exercises. Do the incline DB press before the military press. Otherwise, you are unnecessarily taxing your shoulders, which can cause your incline press to suffer. I always prefer to get my chest stuff done before my shoulders, I find it gives me a better chest workout as well as a better shoulder workout.

2. Personally, I like to do shrugs on pull day and hammys on leg day, but that’s just me. It doesn’t really matter that much.

3. You have a LOT of curls in there. Are you lacking biceps and really trying to hit them hard? Personally I would sub out one of your curls for some chin ups and do it early in the routine.

4. I greatly prefer reverse lunges to regular lunges, they take up less space and IMO give a better workout.

5. IMO I am not a fan of on-the-floor ab workouts. They just don’t feel very efficient. I MUCH prefer hanging leg exercises. My favorite is hanging vertical knee raises. I will do 30 reps x 3 sets on back day (twice per week). One day one I do straight up vertical knee raises, and on day 2 I do a “rainbow” motion. I get a a huge ab burn that is way better than any other ab exercise and gets the whole system of abs. I do still like Russian twists though.


My only big concern: you said PPL x2 program, are you planning on doing PPLPPLrest on a 7-day rotation? So does that mean you will lift 6 days then rest 1 day?

If so, you need to come up with a second PPL routine. Doing the same exercises over and over again isn't ideal. It can cause more strain than necessary on connective tissue and in cause uneven muscle growth and reinforce weak points. You are much better off coming up with a second set of PPL exercises for each day. For a 6 day routine, I have 6 different days of varying lifts. There is definitely overlap, but for example:

Currently PPLPPL rest would have you doing the same exercises over and over:
Push Exercise Group 1
Pull Exercise Group 1
Legs Exercise Group 1
Push Exercise Group 1
Pull Exercise Group 1
Legs Exercise Group 1
Rest

Vs switching it up (I currently run a program like this):
Push Exercise Group 1
Pull Exercise Group 1
Legs Exercise Group 1
Push Exercise Group 2
Pull Exercise Group 2
Legs Exercise Group 2
Rest


I take an extra day of rest every 2 weeks or so. Remember to listen to your body.

So I might suggest something like for PPLPPLrest:

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders): Push Group 1
Barbell Bench Press
: 3×12
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press: 3×12
Military Press: 3×12 (I would recommend trying the Arnold Press here instead. See my post in this thread for more info).
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3×12 + 1 drop set
Cable Pushdown: 3×15 + 1 drop set (consider alternating between pronated and supinated grip to work all the heads of the tricep)
Overhead Cable Triceps Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3×15
Dumbbell Shrugs: 3×15

Pull Workout (Back/Biceps): Pull Group 1
Barbell Rows:
3×12
Wide Grip Lat Pulldowns (1.5xshoulder width): 3×12
Deadlifts: 3×12
Face-pulls: 3×12
Barbell Bicep Curls (Alternate between close and normal grip): 3×28 Method
Dumbbell Preacher Curls (focus on negatives): 3×15

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves/Abs): Legs Group 1
Barbell Squats
: 3×12 (make you you get deep)
Reverse Lunges: 3×12
Leg Extensions: 3×12 (if you really must...you even shouldn't need them after the squats and lunges)
Calf Raises: 3×15-20 (between 15 and 20 reps, don’t neglect your soleus muscle!)
Bicycle crunch: 3×10
Leg Raises: 3×15
Russian Twists: 3×10
Weighted Decline Crunches: 3×10

Anyway, after you’ve gone through the first group of PPL, now you do it again, but switch things up:

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders): Push Group 2
Spoto Press:
3×10
Decline Press: 3x12
Hex Press or Dumbbell Flys: 3×10-12
Single Arm Landmine Press or Single Arm Dumbbell OHP: 3x12
Incline Side-Lying Lateral Raise: 3×12
Dips (use a dip machine or do band-assisted dips if needed to get your reps in): 3x12-15
Skull Crushers: 3x12 (using a multi-grip bar if you have access to one, or an EZ bar)
Barbell Shrugs: 3×12

Pull Workout (Back/Biceps): Pull Group 2
Barbell Rows
: 3×12
Pull Ups: 4x10
Romanian Deadlifts: 3×12
Reverse Flys: 3×12
Alternating Dumbbell Bicep/Hammer Curls: 3x14 (This is: right arm bicep curl, left arm bicep curl, right arm hammer curl, left arm hammer curl, repeat). It gives a different feel to the workout and works your muscles more evenly.
EZ Bar Reverse Curls: 3×15 (standing or preacher are both fine)

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves/Abs): Legs Group 2
Zercher Squats
: 3×12
Dumbbell Bulgarian Split Squats: 3×12
Romanian Deadlift: 3x10
Glute Bridge: 3x12-15
Calf Raises: 3×15-20 (between 15 and 20 reps, don’t neglect your soleus muscle!)
Ankle Weighted Standing Hip Abduction: 3x15-20
Hanging Vertical Knee Raises: 3 sets x 20-30 reps! Feel the burn!!

Anyway, that is a solid start for you.
I was thinking of using 3x5 because I have very little strength in my loads:

bench press 12x60kg
12x85kg squat
military press 12x32,5kg
barbell row 12x75kg
12x82,5kg deadlift (I started doing this exercise together again)

Taking these loads into account, do you still think it's better to use high reps?
 
I was thinking of using 3x5 because I have very little strength in my loads:

bench press 12x60kg
12x85kg squat
military press 12x32,5kg
barbell row 12x75kg
12x82,5kg deadlift (I started doing this exercise together again)

Taking these loads into account, do you still think it's better to use high reps?
Dude. You're weak as fuck. Why are you using gear? Learn to eat and get on a legit program. 135×12? Dude that's less than my warmup was before I ever touched gear..
 
I was thinking of using 3x5 because I have very little strength in my loads:

bench press 12x60kg
12x85kg squat
military press 12x32,5kg
barbell row 12x75kg
12x82,5kg deadlift (I started doing this exercise together again)

Taking these loads into account, do you still think it's better to use high reps?
You will still gain strength doing what I have above. There is this broscience belief that strength is built only with less than 8 reps. A lot of guys want to do 5/3/1 and just max out--and that's fine. But you can build strength doing high rep exercises too.

Check out the Average to Savage 2.0 templates. It's nice because they have oth strength and hypertrophy templates and it costs 5 bucks. Or you could try nSuns. It'll help you build some good strength.

If nothing else, know this: if you do gear too early in your lifting career, your strength shoots up too fast. When that happens you are at a much higher risk of injuring yourself via strains or sprains or even downright tearing a muscle/tendon. It is really awful when you see that happen.

When you hop on gear and your bench goes up 30 kg in 8 weeks because your starting weight was low, your muscle may be able to handle it for a while, but your tendons and connective tissue simply can't. Sometimes the muscle can't either. People tear their shit all the time because of this sort of thing. That's why building the base is SO, SO important.

Basically, at that level I would strongly advise you not to use gear yet at all. If you are hypogonadal and need TRT that is one thing--get on TRT. But don't blast at all. It just isn't really worth it. Build your base first--both in terms of strength and form and lifts as well as diet. Otherwise you are simply risking injury and doing unnecessary damage to your body.
 
Dude just download cheating death 2.0 and run that program if you want a great ppl routine. Meadow is fucking awesome
 
Holy fuck dude...Your leg day would take me 2 sessions.

-If you’re new to programming, try to follow one or 2 to completion before doing your own programming. If you want a BB program, follow John Meadows or a DC template or something.

other than that, a lot of good info has been posted for you. Good luck.
 
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