What are acceptable serum concentration of Deca and EQ for PCT?

[Wrangel7]

I'm coming off a major blast of nandrolone decanoate and boldenone undecylenate and sustanon. Sustanon is simpler as you can simply plot out the serum concentration of the longest ester of exogenous testosterone and when it reaches below about 100 ng/dl of exogenous testosterone then PCT is appropriate to begin. However, what are the serum levels of nandrolone and boldenone which allow for an appropriate start to PCT.

For context the blast involved about:
1400mg/week Deca
520mg/week EQ

I am not planning on cruising but hoping to come off completely for personal reasons.

So I am planning on cessation of Deca and EQ followed by a phase of shorter esters whilst the longer esters clear and I would like this phase to not be excessively long and then to PCT. Does anyone have experience or knowledge on what serum concentrations of the above are acceptable for PCT?

I cannot seem to find any literature on the serum concentrations of these compounds which make PCT appropriate. Is it 50ng/dl? Lower?

Thank you.

 

[b6798045]

That is a good question, I always hear 5 half lives of almost any drug is considered "cleared out" from the body. Now for their metabolites, I am not sure, some say you need a lot more time for Nandrolone clearance time due to their prolactin affect of HPTA.

 

[Wrangel7]

I always hear 5 half lives of almost any drug is considered "cleared out" from the body.

10 half-lives of X deca/week is the equivalent of 5 half-lives of Y deca/week, so this advice isn't applicable unless we are talking about the serum concentration from 5 half-lives of a specific Z deca a week, which would give us a serum concentration estimate in ng/dl which then kind of defeats the whole half-life conversation in the first place and brings us back to the relevant question of what serum concentration is appropriate.

E.g. serum conc from (roughly):
2400mg/week after cessation after 8 half-lives ≈ 9ng/dl
300mg/week after cessation after 5 half-lives ≈ 9ng/dl

That is a good question. [...] Now for their metabolites, I am not sure, some say you need a lot more time for Nandrolone clearance time due to their prolactin affect of HPTA.

 

[Wrangel7]

10 half-lives of X deca/week is the equivalent of 5 half-lives of Y deca/week, so this advice isn't applicable unless we are talking about the serum concentration from 5 half-lives of a specific Z deca a week, which would give us a serum concentration estimate in ng/dl which then kind of defeats the whole half-life conversation in the first place and brings us back to the relevant question of what serum concentration is appropriate.

E.g. serum conc from (roughly):
2400mg/week after cessation after 8 half-lives ≈ 9ng/dl
300mg/week after cessation after 5 half-lives ≈ 9ng/dl

Forgive the math if it isn't accurate and/or precise.

 

[iris]

@narta

 

[narta]

10 half-lives of X deca/week is the equivalent of 5 half-lives of Y deca/week, so this advice isn't applicable unless we are talking about the serum concentration from 5 half-lives of a specific Z deca a week, which would give us a serum concentration estimate in ng/dl which then kind of defeats the whole half-life conversation in the first place and brings us back to the relevant question of what serum concentration is appropriate.

E.g. serum conc from (roughly):
2400mg/week after cessation after 8 half-lives ≈ 9ng/dl
300mg/week after cessation after 5 half-lives ≈ 9ng/dl

That is correct. But 5 hl is a (correct) rough estimate that one is below the threshold for the HTPA to start the feedback loop. Because you have individual levels of esterase, lipase enzymes plus carrier oil of choice that all effect the terminal half life.

Nandrolone specifically, has metabolites that negatively impact the axis so even a minuscule/trace amount can have negative feedback.

So start at 5hl and go from there with the appropriate hormone tests.

P.S. If you choose to substitute Deca with NPP beware of the compounding effect. Levels will come down, but more slowly, its still nandrolone so levels will linger for longer.

 

[iris]

Thank you

 

[Wrangel7]

Nandrolone specifically, has metabolites that negatively impact the axis so even a minuscule/trace amount can have negative feedback.

Was wondering what exact amount that may be? 50ng/dl? 1ng/dl?

carrier oil of choice

MCT. Does that help? 60-100 days should be more than enough, right?

Also what do you think of running HCG (low dose 2x per week) for fertility/balls reasons on a cruise (clearing out long esters) before PCTing some months later with a bigger HCG dose?

Thanks.

 

[b6798045]

Was wondering what exact amount that may be? 50ng/dl? 1ng/dl?


MCT. Does that help? 60-100 days should be more than enough, right?

Also what do you think of running HCG (low dose 2x per week) for fertility/balls reasons on a cruise (clearing out long esters) before PCTing some months later with a bigger HCG dose?

Thanks.

Took my last shoot of Test-E 7 weeks ago (still no PCT drugs, cold turkey). Stoped NPP in April 2024 and my LH and FSH are slowly climbing up (still waiting for Testosterone results). You can check my post: PCT after 2 year Blast cruise.

 

[Wrangel7]

Test solo out of AAS whilst clearing out.

 

[eery]

well you want your serum levels of exogenous androgens to be 0 if you are going to PCT.

You ran this cycle with no test base? what was the goal for the cycle and how was it, and the results? interesting cycle design.

 

[UncleBuns]

Start running HCG now and wait 5 half lives then go into whatever PCT you've decided on. It's difficult to try and figure out the ideal timing as there is not great data to reference and individuals will vary significantly. Just ballpark a good timeline, do bloods throughout to gauge how effective the plan is, and be prepared to adjust protocols and shorten or lengthen the plan as needed. If things aren't panning now in PCT then lengthen the PCT.

 

[Wrangel7]

You ran this cycle with no test base?

nandrolone decanoate and boldenone undecylenate and sustanon.

Several grams of test, too (sustanon).

how was it, and the results?

The blast yielded very high progress and was a titration up towards these final doses over the course of a bit under a year.

These were close to the maximum doses I was willing to tolerate (alongside HGH).

 

[Wrangel7]

Start running HCG now and wait 5 half lives then go into whatever PCT you've decided on. It's difficult to try and figure out the ideal timing as there is not great data to reference and individuals will vary significantly. Just ballpark a good timeline, do bloods throughout to gauge how effective the plan is, and be prepared to adjust protocols and shorten or lengthen the plan as needed. If things aren't panning now in PCT then lengthen the PCT.

Started with HCG low frequency just before the new year.
Will take regular breaks off HCG (sensitivity).
Planning to cruise a bit longer then will eventually PCT.

 

[UncleBuns]

Started with HCG low frequency just before the new year.
Will take regular breaks off HCG (sensitivity).
Planning to cruise a bit longer then will eventually PCT.

You won't "desensitize" to HCG. If you plan to PCT take it consistently at a decent dose.

 

[Astartes]

That is a good question, I always hear 5 half lives of almost any drug is considered "cleared out" from the body. Now for their metabolites, I am not sure, some say you need a lot more time for Nandrolone clearance time due to their prolactin affect of HPTA.

Metabolites for Deca and EQ are in system 12-18 months last I remember. (Someone check me)