(US) Vendor gear found with dissolved brewing equipment (Plastic)

[Mastedon]

Feel free to blame me if you blast this gear for 30 years and get achy joints or forget where you put your keys

Haha all good brother. My risk tolerance and any actions as a result are my own responsibility. It would be weak of me to blame anyone else. I just prefer to have data to help inform me for making those decisions.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Haha all good brother. My risk tolerance and any actions as a result are my own responsibility. It would be weak of me to blame anyone else. I just prefer to have data to help inform me for making those decisions.

Maybe there's something analogous to risk tolerance but for... 'data quality acceptance'?

For example, there aren't randomized clinical trials of knuckle draggers blasting loads of gear & GH, but we have decades of anecdotes

Anecdotes are shit quality data, but in some cases... good enough

 

[Mastedon]

Maybe there's something analogous to risk tolerance but for... 'data quality acceptance'?

For example, there aren't randomized clinical trials of knuckle draggers blasting loads of gear & GH, but we have decades of anecdotes

Anecdotes are shit quality data, but in some cases... good enough

Your data quality acceptance point is a good one.
I agree there are unknowns about the current data and the seemingly undesirable peaks. Honestly it is difficult for me to fully understand the science that these guys are working on but I support it however I can and I'm thankful they are asking the questions and looking for answers.

Also I am a fan of anecdotes for sure, especially when you have a lot of them. My concern of these seemingly undesirable peaks however aren't something I feel anecdotes can speak to. Even if someone says I've been injecting this XYZ peak for 30 years and I'm fine, I'd still rather choose a product that doesn't have it...if it is in fact determined to be undesirable or unnecessary.

For now I'm going to choose to not use the vials I have until this issue is figured out. Once we know more I'll send in what I have for testing and go from there.

You make good points about the anecdotes and sometimes, if not oftentimes in this field/industry/hobby, it is all we have...
and I've absolutely relied on them to inform my decisions and I've used then to talk myself into doing things I just wanted to do.

 

[ve79]

I am looking for veterans who have purchased gear from the below vendors from Jan-Sep this year to send in their sealed vials for testing.

I believe these vendors reimburse, however there exist a risk the vendors do not reimburse in full or changes their reimbursement policy.
You may want to check in with them in advance.

Test to order is HPLC+GCMS

Primal
Mast P200
TRA 200
SUS 500
Test E500

MuscleCandy
TRE 400

Axle
TRE 400

Is this list of the only type of oils that are effected or can other oils also be effected

 

[Photon]

Is this list of the only type of oils that are effected or can other oils also be effected

Jano only confirmed for tre400. We have no testing for the other oils. I posted to see if anyone is interested in sending their oils for testing.

 

[readalot]

So I will ask again.



I provided the NIST mass spectrum and @proton provided Jano's mass spectrum for peak 3.

Benzenemethanamine, N-hydroxy-N-(phenylmethyl)-

webbook.nist.gov

Next would be ordering a reference standard and generating another mass spectrum. What else shall we do to confirm the identity of this compound?

 

[AIRBORNE DADDY]

@Pho

Is Primal reimbursing anyone for the Tren 400 find?

Shit. It's likely every single compound from his 1st batch is contaminated. My eyes turned red 24x7 after 3 weeks on his tren e 200 and test c. I dropped the tren 25 days ago. Still doing 200mg test cyp. Still red eyes that visine does nothing for. Ran bloodwork today to check hemoglobin hematocrit and rbc.... I recently started using reading glasses so maybe my issue is unrelated. BP is good and I did run another vendors tren/test for 8 weeks before his, so almost 12 weeks on tren and I usually get irritated eyes if I go over 10 weeks of tren but goes away 10 days after I quit tren. Usually I run 350 tren e. This run was 250mg.

 

[hexagonal]

I wouldn't sweat it just yet

This could be shit that guys have been injecting for literally decades with no obvious problems; it's just that the compounds are being detected now for the first time

(don't @ me bubble boys)

Serious question:

Have these higher concentration blends been popular for all that long? If it's an issue arising from needing more solvents for higher concentration stuff, and those are relatively new, we might not actually have decades worth of anecdotes here to look at.

 

[Photon]

Serious question:

Have these higher concentration blends been popular for all that long? If it's an issue arising from needing more solvents for higher concentration stuff, and those are relatively new, we might not actually have decades worth of anecdotes here to look at.

Only 3 vendors offer HC here.
Primal Axle MC.
How new is this, I'm not sure.
It's more common on SST than meso.

 

[Photon]

Just to addon, some people seems to be confused about these filters. You can simply Google them. They aren't used to filter small amounts of oils. Most are used to filter liters of finished product before moving them over to vials.

The plastic in question was detected by sending plastic, BB and dissolved plastic in BB, and 2 sealed vials, all to Jano and not by randomly doing a test and Googling stuff that appears in said test. The confirmation in the commentary about plastic contamination is what's the most important (to me) in the report.

What is melting is not the filter but the plastic used to house the entire batch of oil before or after filtering. Given how it's HC gear, there exists a possibility too that the filters are dissolving, however I don't believe existing Jano testing can detect that.

 

[readalot]

The plastic in question was detected by sending plastic, BB and dissolved plastic in BB, and 2 sealed vials, all to Jano and not by randomly doing a test and Googling stuff that appears in said test.

No testing, no problems, perfect gear. Everyone's happy.

Why are you so concerned about the quality of gear people use lol. People who are concerned can get their own shit tested. Stop arguing with people online and post some gifs instead

J/k Brother.

You did an amazing job. Some dont want to get the facts straight and surely dont want others to get the facts straight.

I admire your persistence to keep pushing out the facts on what you actually accomplished. I am reading and I understand it.

 

[murna]

Thankful for being able to read this thread full of good info

 

[readalot]

So I will ask again.



I provided the NIST mass spectrum and @proton provided Jano's mass spectrum for peak 3.

Benzenemethanamine, N-hydroxy-N-(phenylmethyl)-

webbook.nist.gov

Next would be ordering a reference standard and generating another mass spectrum. What else shall we do to confirm the identity of this compound?

Reference standard:

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/primal-pharma-us-domestic.134430762/post-3608055

Role of DHBA on termination of PS radical polymerization:

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/primal-pharma-us-domestic.134430762/post-3608067

 

[Photon]

Hi @mr.redpill @Docsunshine23

I believe you've purchased some HC gear from Primal, would you be interested in sending it to Jano for testing? If I'm not mistaken SUS500 has the highest solvents in the product lineup.

Test is HPLC+GCMS.
I believe Vendor reimburses (please confirm before sending).

 

[readalot]

2 Sealed vials of TRE400 were sent to Jano for testing.
Both were confirmed today to contain dissolved plastic.

Janoshik Analytical (1st batch)
Janoshik Analytical (2nd/current batch)

Vials are from 2 different batches.
The first batch and 2nd (current) batch.
As confirmed by Vendor, only 2 batches exist.

How toxic is this?
I have no idea, however I have zero plans to inject from any vendor that has any products containing dissolved plastic.

Which products are affected?
As of now we only have confirmation of the first and current batches of TRE400.

Is this only for Tren related oils?
No this may occur for all AAS oils.

Can this be filtered out?
No.

What testing is performed?
HPLC + GCMS.
This is not a new test. It has been performed on vendors such as QSC and we know that they have been gone for ages.

What other vendors have this?
In the 10+ test reports we have of different vendors, this is the first time we are seeing this.
We even have testing done on TNE (which uses alot more solvents) with no dissolved plastic.

What brewing equipment?
Bottle top filters which are made out of a single piece plastic (polystyrene).
Polystyrene is not compatible with the solvents used for brewing and will dissolve.
How much / quickly the plastic dissolves depends on the amount of oil being filtered and the % of solvents used.
This means that is it more likely to occur in oils sold in high volume or high concentration oils.

Is vendor testing sufficient?
Buy from vendors you trust.
There is nothing stopping them from swapping batches or using same batch numbers for multiple batches.
Do you believe a vendor will toss out tens of thousands in finished oils and brewing equipment?

Are the two reports referenced in the last sentence of the comments section publicly available?

 

[Docsunshine23]

Hi @mr.redpill @Docsunshine23

I believe you've purchased some HC gear from Primal, would you be interested in sending it to Jano for testing? If I'm not mistaken SUS500 has the highest solvents in the product lineup.

Test is HPLC+GCMS.
I believe Vendor reimburses (please confirm before sending).

I was just about to chime in, I am contacting Primal now to confirm reimbursement, I do have some TE500.

What is the exact test you order to identify these containments?

 

[Photon]

What is the exact test you order to identify these containments?

HPLC + GCMS

 

[Photon]

I'm no veteran but I'm willing to help out and I'm 99% sure I have the Mast P200 from that timeframe.
Can check a bit later although I've never sent anything in to Jano so I might have a couple questions.
I probably also have the NPP200. Any interest in me sending that in too?

Could you confirm with Primal that it's be reimbursed and to send your HC gear for testing?

HPLC + GCMS

 

[Kylesmith1985]

@Photon Did you send in any non high concentration great for HPLC + GCMS testing?

 

[Photon]

@Photon Did you send in any non high concentration great for HPLC + GCMS testing?

No I did not.