MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Turkeybuilder's first cycle! SUBQ ONLY!

Turkeybuilder said:
It depends on the day. Unfortunately meal prepping every meal for me isn’t realistic and sometimes I just need to have random meals on the fly and make due. i 100% always hit my protein goals but some days my carbs are 220-250 and other days its 300+. Depends how much time I have in the day for more ideal meals
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I don't know how you respond on carbs and many of the details about your body composition, history etc but without a significant amount of carbs don't expect much. As an enhanced guy, keep fats low like 50gr for your weight are more than enough, moderate protein at ~180gr and push carbs as high as you can, depending on the surplas you're aiming.

I'm currently at ~800gr carbs and scale isn't moving, i'll have to increase them. I know a wellness chick from my gym who push more than 500-600 carbs in the off season, 220 carbs is a good number for pre and post lol.

Drugs need food to work, otherwise you re just trying to recomp which is most of the times the least optimal way to grow.
 
dudemos said:
Good luck with the cycle, man. Sub-q is an interesting approach, keen to see how your bloods look and if you manage to avoid the AI.
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I’ll be drawing labs in 2 weeks so we’ll see then. Hoping it’s all in my head but I occasionally feel a sharp pain inside my right nipple that goes away. Hoping that’s not a sign because I’m experiencing no other symptoms of high E2




Eddie. said:
I don't know how you respond on carbs and many of the details about your body composition, history etc but without a significant amount of carbs don't expect much. As an enhanced guy, keep fats low like 50gr for your weight are more than enough, moderate protein at ~180gr and push carbs as high as you can, depending on the surplas you're aiming.

I'm currently at ~800gr carbs and scale isn't moving, i'll have to increase them. I know a wellness chick from my gym who push more than 500-600 carbs in the off season, 220 carbs is a good number for pre and post lol.

Drugs need food to work, otherwise you re just trying to recomp which is most of the times the least optimal way to grow.
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Respectfully I disagree with your philosophy even though I know you have eons more experience and a pretty fucking impressive physique. The scale and lean mass composition moves on calories in / calories out. Thermodynamics. I’m not missing some magic weight gain by not eating 500 grams of carbs, so long as i’m in a caloric surplus. Sure my physique might look prettier fully carbed up because you hold more water with more carbs in you, but that does not equate to additional lean mass.

I’ll gain the same +1lb a week in a 500 caloric daily surplus eating 0 carbs as I would in a 500 caloric surplus eating 400 carbs. Calories in calories out. Thermodynamics. I’m not stepping on stage and i’m not complicating it any further than that
 
Turkeybuilder said:
I’ll be drawing labs in 2 weeks so we’ll see then. Hoping it’s all in my head but I occasionally feel a sharp pain inside my right nipple that goes away. Hoping that’s not a sign because I’m experiencing no other symptoms of high E2





Respectfully I disagree with your philosophy even though I know you have eons more experience and a pretty fucking impressive physique. The scale and lean mass composition moves on calories in / calories out. Thermodynamics. I’m not missing some magic weight gain by not eating 500 grams of carbs, so long as i’m in a caloric surplus. Sure my physique might look prettier fully carbed up because you hold more water with more carbs in you, but that does not equate to additional lean mass.

I’ll gain the same +1lb a week in a 500 caloric daily surplus eating 0 carbs as I would in a 500 caloric surplus eating 400 carbs. Calories in calories out. Thermodynamics. I’m not stepping on stage and i’m not complicating it any further than that
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I think there's more to it than that. The thermodynamics references is accurate as far as energy in VS energy out, but you have to consider energy availability and conversion too. You're converting chemical potential energy to mechanical energy. Think about putting low octane fuel in a high compression motor. The BTUs available in the fuel don't change, but the energy output is significantly lowered since the motor can't run efficiently. More waste gets introduced in the process.

Carbs are easy access energy. Without the right macros balance your body has to work harder for the same energy, or run less efficiently. Either way it's going to hurt your goals.
 
Civdiv said:
I think there's more to it than that. The thermodynamics references is accurate as far as energy in VS energy out, but you have to consider energy availability and conversion too. You're converting chemical potential energy to mechanical energy. Think about putting low octane fuel in a high compression motor. The BTUs available in the fuel don't change, but the energy output is significantly lowered since the motor can't run efficiently. More waste gets introduced in the process.

Carbs are easy access energy. Without the right macros balance your body has to work harder for the same energy, or run less efficiently. Either way it's going to hurt your goals.
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I like the analogy and I want to make it clear I'm not saying by any means that I don't think carbs are extremely beneficial, because I know they are. I'm just saying if I'm staying within my 2500-2700 daily caloric budget, and some days I'm closer to 250 carb and other days closer to 300-350, the benefits of the 300-350 days will be very marginal in terms of addition of new lean mass tissue.

Of course in a perfect world I'd love to be optimal and do everything 100% right but that's not possible in my life and i'm not going to exhaust mental energy over making sure I get an extra 100g of carbs when at the end of the day i'm hitting the same caloric target I need to hit, and the same protein target I need to hit. Those two are much more important
 
Turkeybuilder said:
I like the analogy and I want to make it clear I'm not saying by any means that I don't think carbs are extremely beneficial, because I know they are. I'm just saying if I'm staying within my 2500-2700 daily caloric budget, and some days I'm closer to 250 carb and other days closer to 300-350, the benefits of the 300-350 days will be very marginal in terms of addition of new lean mass tissue.

Of course in a perfect world I'd love to be optimal and do everything 100% right but that's not possible in my life and i'm not going to exhaust mental energy over making sure I get an extra 100g of carbs when at the end of the day i'm hitting the same caloric target I need to hit, and the same protein target I need to hit. Those two are much more important
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I'm pretty sure I understand your point, and if so I agree. It comes down to weekly averages. If you're short a little one day and over the next it's not a huge deal. You build muscle the days after workout over time.

My first response was more in reference to you mentioning the option of upping protein VS carbs to hit calorie goals, instead of holding protein and fats and throttling carbs. I may have misunderstood. Trying to get the right foods in on the go is rough. Just be mindful of the loss of potential progress when you're less than optimized.
 
Civdiv said:
I'm pretty sure I understand your point, and if so I agree. It comes down to weekly averages. If you're short a little one day and over the next it's not a huge deal. You build muscle the days after workout over time.

My first response was more in reference to you mentioning the option of upping protein VS carbs to hit calorie goals, instead of holding protein and fats and throttling carbs. I may have misunderstood. Trying to get the right foods in on the go is rough. Just be mindful of the loss of potential progress when you're less than optimized.
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Yes yes we were both pretty much saying the same thing then. I absolutely understand that unfortunately I am missing out on potential progress by not meal prepping every single meal for every single day of the week, but that’s something i’ve accepted. It’s not reasonable for me to do that in my life.

My main priorities are to hit my calories, hit my protein, progressive overload my training, and get good sleep. I’m sure the progress will be good enough for me. I’m not a 250lb mass monster who is trying to win an overall, I just want to be lean and have some size.
 
Civdiv said:
Yet! Haha

It's crazy how hitting your goals makes you hungry to keep pushing to a new goal.

Good luck bud. Really looking forward to following your progress. I'm planning on putting some weight on on a couple months too. We'll see how it goes.
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thank you brother I appreciate your advice and support man. Good luck with your journey as well i'm sure you'll be very successful.
 
Do you get any pain/lumps and swelling on the injection sites?

When I started TRT the clinic had me doing .5ml subcutaneous on my stomach twice a week.

Never gave me another spot to do it and the lumps would last a week and were pretty painful and itchy.

If .3ml is working for you maybe the volume was just too much for me? Definitely following this thread
 
Thriso said:
Do you get any pain/lumps and swelling on the injection sites?

When I started TRT the clinic had me doing .5ml subcutaneous on my stomach twice a week.

Never gave me another spot to do it and the lumps would last a week and were pretty painful and itchy.

If .3ml is working for you maybe the volume was just too much for me? Definitely following this thread
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The .3ml daily injections absolutely are leaving lumps everywhere. They usually last 4ish days which gives me enough time to rotate between enough spots. Even on my trt dose of .2ml of oil every other day I was getting lumps. Sub-q oil will do that
 
That matches my experience doing 0.36mL subq per day. Lumps would stick around for 3-4 days and sometimes itched at night. I did them in my hip and butt, below my waist line so they wouldn't be visible. No issues doing that for 10 weeks.

I used an insulin pen and it was super easy. I might do daily subq test when I'm cruising just because it's easy to remember to do after pissing in the morning.
 
Hello today marks the end of week 3 and the start of week 4.

Week 1 average weight: 167.7lb (Previous week 165.3)
Week 2 average weight: 168.4lb (+0.7lb)
Week 3 average weight: 169.2lb (+0.8lb)

I made much more of an effort this week to make sure i’m always 250-300+ carbs. Started incorporating poptarts / bagels / candies / cereals on top of my normal rice+meat meals. Pumps in the gym feel great, i’m walking around with pretty vascular arms later in the evening after a full day of eating. Not noticing much of a physique difference at all honestly. Strength has gone up in the gym on almost all of my movements per body part now but nothing crazy. Made sure to hit 200-220+ grams of protein every day as well.

Truth be told outside of marginally better workouts I don’t feel much of a difference at all. I’ll be drawing labs on December 4th, which would put me at day 30 of the cycle.

Going to keep trusting the process and keeping my calories steady at where they are at right now (2500-2700) since i’m seeing almost 1lb of gain a week, which is what the plan was from the start.

I’ll continue to push the carbs and protein when I can, and i’m hoping some magic change in the next few weeks since weeks 4-6 is when everyone says they start to notice the difference
 
Turkeybuilder said:
Hello today marks the end of week 3 and the start of week 4.

Week 1 average weight: 167.7lb (Previous week 165.3)
Week 2 average weight: 168.4lb (+0.7lb)
Week 3 average weight: 169.2lb (+0.8lb)

I made much more of an effort this week to make sure i’m always 250-300+ carbs. Started incorporating poptarts / bagels / candies / cereals on top of my normal rice+meat meals. Pumps in the gym feel great, i’m walking around with pretty vascular arms later in the evening after a full day of eating. Not noticing much of a physique difference at all honestly. Strength has gone up in the gym on almost all of my movements per body part now but nothing crazy. Made sure to hit 200-220+ grams of protein every day as well.

Truth be told outside of marginally better workouts I don’t feel much of a difference at all. I’ll be drawing labs on December 4th, which would put me at day 30 of the cycle.

Going to keep trusting the process and keeping my calories steady at where they are at right now (2500-2700) since i’m seeing almost 1lb of gain a week, which is what the plan was from the start.

I’ll continue to push the carbs and protein when I can, and i’m hoping some magic change in the next few weeks since weeks 4-6 is when everyone says they start to notice the difference
Click to expand...
First, thank you for posting your progress on subq injections. Always great to see this kind of content.

I'm not sure I would be terribly concerned about weight gain at week 3. Plenty of studies show that maximal effect doesn't take effect until 3-12 months.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment and time span until maximum effects are achieved - PubMed

The time-course of the spectrum of effects of testosterone shows considerable variation, probably related to pharmacodynamics of the testosterone preparation. Genomic and non-genomic effects, androgen receptor polymorphism and intracellular steroid metabolism further contribute to such diversity.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Moose said:
First, thank you for posting your progress on subq injections. Always great to see this kind of content.

I'm not sure I would be terribly concerned about weight gain at week 3. Plenty of studies show that maximal effect doesn't take effect until 3-12 months.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment and time span until maximum effects are achieved - PubMed

The time-course of the spectrum of effects of testosterone shows considerable variation, probably related to pharmacodynamics of the testosterone preparation. Genomic and non-genomic effects, androgen receptor polymorphism and intracellular steroid metabolism further contribute to such diversity.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
I appreciate the response and advice. This thread is in relation to a cycle of 500mg/wk, I have been doing sub-q testosterone as “trt” for like 7-8 months now

My planned cycle length is 12-16 weeks
 
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