Turkeybuilder's first cycle! SUBQ ONLY!

[Turkeybuilder]

Most people need some kind of Ai control while in the 500 mg range, theres "some folks" that do not , but they are a special breed , i know @BamaCrazy has a pretty much crashed e2 on Test only , Bloodwork is so important, which ai would you consider using?

I have 30 1mg tablets of arimidex on hand but I honestly don’t know if i’ve done enough research on how to properly dose and how often. Ive heard people crush it into fourths and take 0.25mg with symptoms but i’m not sure how confident i’d be doing that considering I’ve never experienced symptoms. I’ll just be going off of bloodwork

 

[Photon]

I have 30 1mg tablets of arimidex on hand but I honestly don’t know if i’ve done enough research on how to properly dose and how often. Ive heard people crush it into fourths and take 0.25mg with symptoms but i’m not sure how confident i’d be doing that considering I’ve never experienced symptoms. I’ll just be going off of bloodwork

Get some ralox at least.
Some people prefer taking it vs an AI.

 

[SnowyMiami]

How are the ass marbles?

 

[Ateam2023]

How are the ass marbles?

Butt beads?

 

[Turkeybuilder]

Get some ralox at least.
Some people prefer taking it vs an AI.

How do you dose it? Benefits of that versus arimidex? I need to do research but i’m praying my week 4 labs are fine lol

 

[Turkeybuilder]

How are the ass marbles?

So far so good I think. No issues lmao tolerable

 

[Photon]

How do you dose it? Benefits of that versus arimidex? I need to do research but i’m praying my week 4 labs are fine lol

Ai lowers e2
Ralox (SERM), not an AI -- blocks e2 in breast tissue

 

[Ateam2023]

With daily injections, what is the volume per dose? I personally like the low volume eod injections i have been doing , .23 ml has been my doses, im only on a Trt dose , because im not lifting real heavy and i have upcoming surgery next week , i hate the trt doses, i feel so flat and not as "charged up" in the gym ,

 

[Turkeybuilder]

Ai lowers e2
Ralox (SERM), not an AI -- blocks e2 in breast tissue

Oh similar to nolvadex. Is that just to prevent gyno if you think you may be predisposed to it? What would be the negatives of taking it if you don’t need it?

Great another thing i need to research

I definitely do need to get a serm on board incase i start getting into my head about gyno or nipple sensitivity, feeling none of that currently though.

With daily injections, what is the volume per dose? I personally like the low volume eod injections i have been doing , .23 ml has been my doses, im only on a Trt dose , because im not lifting real heavy and i have upcoming surgery next week , i hate the trt doses, i feel so flat and not as "charged up" in the gym ,

At 250mg/ml vial my daily injection volume is 0.3ml. Not a lot at all and super reasonable.

 

[Angryshitter]

Hello,

I will be using this thread as a progress update on my cycle. I will be doing a 500mg test cyp/wk cycle for 12-16 weeks doing daily sub-q injections rotating between outer thighs and upper glutes.

Why sub-q you must ask? Because I want to. I drew some baseline labs today which i'll post when I get the results (on 175mg/wk test cyp). I'll be doing labs 4 weeks in to see my numbers.
I'm hoping with doing daily injections plus the fact that they are sub-q, I will not require an AI during this cycle.

I plan to start my cycle on: November 9th

Other compounds I will be on during this cycle:

HCG 250iu EOD
L-Carnitine 600mg Daily
Reta 4mg every 6 days
MT2 every 10 days to maintain my sexy bronze color.

Starting stats:
5'7 and a half
165LB
6.5 inch dick
14-16% BF

Following!

The thought of IM gives me the heebie jeebies. I plan on just doing sub q hopefully as well

 

[superfluous]

Oh similar to nolvadex. Is that just to prevent gyno if you think you may be predisposed to it? What would be the negatives of taking it if you don’t need it?

Great another thing i need to research

I definitely do need to get a serm on board incase i start getting into my head about gyno or nipple sensitivity, feeling none of that currently though.


At 250mg/ml vial my daily injection volume is 0.3ml. Not a lot at all and super reasonable.

Is your primary motivation for daily injections the fact that you're going subq and don't want the lumps, so going lower more frequent doses?

 

[Ateam2023]

Is your primary motivation for daily injections the fact that you're going subq and don't want the lumps, so going lower more frequent doses?

Likely for more stable bloods, but that could also be a possibility,

 

[BendigoShafter]

I'm just throwing in a random anecdote:

I'm wrapping up an 8 week subq cycle of 375mg test and 125mg tren per week. I mixed the test and tren oils and do one 0.36mL injection every morning. It's been easy and I kinda like the routine of pinning every morning. I'm using an insulin pen and 29ga needle.

 

[Turkeybuilder]

Is your primary motivation for daily injections the fact that you're going subq and don't want the lumps, so going lower more frequent doses?

Likely for more stable bloods, but that could also be a possibility,

Daily injections = sub-q for stable blood concentrations, less peak/troughs to avoid sides. Studies show sub-q = higher TT and lower E2/hct. Seems like studies suggest sub-q is superior and thats why I opted to do sub-q

 

[Avies48]

The term KISS should be adhered to here… trt… aromidex if needed… hcg for the ballsies if tolerated and doesnt craze the estrogen… thats all thats needed…

Some is trial and error…

I use to do this:

Mon:200 mlg cyp inject
Wed arimidex .25
Friday hcg 250 iu
Sunday hcg 250

Felt like a sexed crazed animal and it was the best trt protocol until i quit trt sometime around 2014ish…

Its a trial and error… decide which path to go… accomplish this with consistency… test bw after 6-8 weeks… reassess….

 

[Turkeybuilder]

Can someone work me through the idea and mindset of “permissible elevated e2” as long as I don’t feel symptoms?

Let’s say I run my labs back at the 4 week mark and my e2 is like 120. Should I treat that? Or only treat it if I experience side effects?

I was under the understanding between a 1:20 or 1:30 ratio is what you want.

When I was real fat like 6-7 years ago I checked my E2 once and it was like 70. Wasn’t taking anything. I had no idea and didn’t treat it, I didn’t have side effects. No gyno, no sensitive nipples.

 

[Eddie.]

Can someone work me through the idea and mindset of “permissible elevated e2” as long as I don’t feel symptoms?

Let’s say I run my labs back at the 4 week mark and my e2 is like 120. Should I treat that? Or only treat it if I experience side effects?

I was under the understanding between a 1:20 or 1:30 ratio is what you want.

When I was real fat like 6-7 years ago I checked my E2 once and it was like 70. Wasn’t taking anything. I had no idea and didn’t treat it, I didn’t have side effects. No gyno, no sensitive nipples.

I wouldn’t suggest to anyone being higher than ~50. There’s no reason for more, like no extra libido, recovery, heart protection, anabolism etc while there’s research showing increased side effects and health issues no matter if you feel/see them or not.

You don’t always treat the symptoms, sometimes you’ll have to treat the numbers as well. Otherwise we wouldn’t bother with measuring our blood pressure and take action only when it gets up to 190/110 and you have nosebleeds or other issues.

Same as hematocrit, or lipids. Imagine measuring your lipids and say well guys my ldl is 300 but I feel fine and I don’t have any side effects so I’m gonna leave it as is because statins are bad for health lol.

 

[Turkeybuilder]

I wouldn’t suggest to anyone being higher than ~50. There’s no reason for more, like no extra libido, recovery, heart protection, anabolism etc while there’s research showing increased side effects and health issues no matter if you feel/see them or not.

You don’t always treat the symptoms, sometimes you’ll have to treat the numbers as well. Otherwise we wouldn’t bother with measuring our blood pressure and take action only when it gets up to 190/110 and you have nosebleeds or other issues.

Same as hematocrit, or lipids. Imagine measuring your lipids and say well guys my ldl is 300 but I feel fine and I don’t have any side effects so I’m gonna leave it as is lol.

Hmm that makes sense. I appreciate your explanation that was a really good way of putting it. So there really is no benefit to an elevated e2 past like 50? What are the negatives of an elevated E2 that don’t present as physical symptoms someone would notice?

Is your response here completely objective and widely understood or is it moreso just your opinion? Either way it is a great explanation and i’m following the logic. Is there any downside to having TT at lets say 3000-4000 and E2 at 40-60? That wouldn’t cause any problems with such a wide ratio?

 

[crispybacon!]

I wouldn’t suggest to anyone being higher than ~50. There’s no reason for more, like no extra libido, recovery, heart protection, anabolism etc while there’s research showing increased side effects and health issues no matter if you feel/see them or not.

You don’t always treat the symptoms, sometimes you’ll have to treat the numbers as well. Otherwise we wouldn’t bother with measuring our blood pressure and take action only when it gets up to 190/110 and you have nosebleeds or other issues.

Same as hematocrit, or lipids. Imagine measuring your lipids and say well guys my ldl is 300 but I feel fine and I don’t have any side effects so I’m gonna leave it as is because statins are bad for health lol.

What are some of the negative health issues associated with E2>50, if one is not experiencing measurable side effects (high BP, excessive water retention, spicy nips)?

I’m also trying to dial in my usage of AI, but would like to be as conservative as possible. I’m pretty sure I just crashed my E2 about a week ago with a couple of 1/4 aromasin tablets (6.25mg) over the course of a week. Felt like complete dog shit for about a week. Finally coming around.

 

[Eddie.]

Hmm that makes sense. I appreciate your explanation that was a really good way of putting it. So there really is no benefit to an elevated e2 past like 50? What are the negatives of an elevated E2 that don’t present as physical symptoms someone would notice?

Is your response here completely objective and widely understood or is it moreso just your opinion? Either way it is a great explanation and i’m following the logic. Is there any downside to having TT at lets say 3000-4000 and E2 at 40-60? That wouldn’t cause any problems with such a wide ratio?

What are some of the negative health issues associated with E2>50, if one is not experiencing measurable side effects (high BP, excessive water retention, spicy nips)?

If hormonal balance and ratio was a thing every time we have 5000 TT we’d need 10x the estradiol, 10x prolactin, 10x progesterone, 10x DHEA, and so on but that’s not the case. Why do we stand specifically at estradiol? I’ve seen many guys with a gram of test and a e2 of 40 and they’re fine.

For me the two main issues from high e2 are first and foremost the higher chances for prostate cancer and second, the higher the e2 is the easier it gets to add fat in certain body parts like hips, glutes and stomach. Probably due to being mostly a female hormone as females need to be covered with a layer of fat due to their reproductive system.

I’m trying to not be dogmatic but so far I haven’t seen any research or any legit scientist giving one single reason why high estradiol in men could have any benefits. On the contrary, there’s research paper saying high estradiol increase the risk of prostatic cancer.

Also, ~50 is my upper preferred number and it is for reference. I know many guys that can’t go above 35-40 without side effects. I felt the same with 40-50-100, but around 40-50 is where I aim.