loveyourbody
New Member
Fair enough. What give us the right to tell someone they don't deserve a chance for a better future?
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The Reason Donald Trump is Unfit for President
- Thread starter Millard
- Start date
GigaloRob
Banned
The fact that the USA is it's own country and has a right to set and protect it's borders. It has the right to determine who comes and who may not. It is a privilege to come here, it's not a right.
loveyourbody
New Member
They why is it that when natives lived here it was ok to take the land? America is not that great my friend. I love it here but I've seen other countries with more beauty than America. Also it is not a privilege just because you say so. It's just your opinion. I respect it but if you ever came to me with a bullet I would let you bleed out haha. It's a privilege to be rescued not a right
GigaloRob
Banned
It's a privilege and not a right, not be me saying so, it's a fact. It's not a right for anyone to immigrate here, it is a privilege. I know in your liberal mind facts have no place in discussion. If America is so bad and others places are so much better then why does everyone want to come here? Jesus did you just bring up the land being taken from the natives? LOL. Throughout history lands are fought over and taken Some are saved while others are conquered and taken. Do you understand this concept? Do you understand this is not exclusive to the United States? Did you skip world history class on your way to your supposed masters degree?
loveyourbody
New Member
It seem that the only way you can get at me is by calling me a liberal. If that's what you want to call me that is fine with me. Not everyone comes here sorry to break the news to you. If you look at recent immigration pattern the USA has been getting last immigrants few years if I remember correctly. Don't quote me though I might be wrong. Yes I do and maybe it's time for that to happen to the USA. Yes I do understand that this is around the world. I do believe that is a problem. I don't believe people should get hand outs but they should be able to try and fight for a better future. I respect your opinion even if you don't respect mine. I've learned that when people just get mad and can't respect the other persons thought process it mean they are unsure, scared, and wrong.
P.S. I just brought that up because people seem to be ok with that but no ok with other people doing it. Once again I do believe it comes back to race. Not saying you but a lot of it does.
GigaloRob
Banned
You using race in a discussion that has zero to do with race shows how weak your position is. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to point out that I think you are wrong. The United States has the responsibility to take care of its own citizens needs and security first before the interests and needs of non citizens. It's just that simple.
I call you a liberal simply because you are spewing all the talking points. You interject race when it's not applicable. You want open borders neglecting the negative impact that would have on American citizens. You constantly virtue signal instead of having honest debate. Of course you think it's about race because you have nothing of substance to add to the discussion other than "it must be racist". It's a worn out leftist talking point that you just can't seem to stop expressing. For future reference, saying something has to do with race,when it clearly doesn't, does not provide evidence or support your stance. It just shows lack of evidence or thought to support your opinion.
loveyourbody
New Member
Once again my opinion. I am not saying you are making it a race thing. For a lot of Americans it is though. I do agree with the part about helping out our citizens first. I wish we didn't have Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc... People should work for what they want. I just don't believe we should have the right to stop anyone. No one is better than anyone. We are all equals in my eyes.
I appreciate your feedback. You never asked my friend. I agree with having to fix our country. Also never said we should have an open boarder. I never got asked what my point of view was. You are just making assumptions.
GigaloRob
Banned
Hmmm...
Your statements. You are advocating for open borders for anyone to be able to come to the United States if they want to. How am I making assumptions about you wanting open borders when you are clearly pushing open borders in your own statements?
loveyourbody
New Member
Now that you have asked my friend now I can explain my side. The average time to get a visa to come to the USA varies between 3 months- years depending on education, age, sex, and country. We need a better program that allows this to work fast. If someone wants to come here and work for x amount of time and then go back awesome. We need to make sure they go back and if they don't they should have to pay a heavy fine. As for those with a bad criminal record and I don't mean possession of pot I mean a real crime like GTA, murder, etc... should not be allowed in because they lost the privilege.
I do think we should help our country first. We need to get our butts out of every country with resources if we don't want them to come here. We need to lead by example. People don't want us in east yet there we are like giant bullies. I understand that their is more to it so don't flame me. It's just an outside point of view.
I do think we spend to much money on military and not enough money on research, science, and the medical field. We shouldn't have food stamp, Medicaid, or Medicare. The people that do have it should be drug tested. If they test positive let them suffer. They made that choice. I just don't think it's fair to make someone suffer when they never got a choice.
Now what is you point of view and what can we do to fix it? Please don't say a giant wall. We all know that won't work and it would cost us way to much $. I would rather that money go towards people fighting cancer.
GigaloRob
Banned
The USA is the most charitable nation on the planet so I don't believe we need to do more in that regard. I'm fine with immigration as it is. It shouldn't be easy to come here. We should be taking mostly the best and brightest from around the world to come here and not the poorest and least educated. As far as the wall goes I don't have feelings about it one way or the other. The cost of illegal aliens to each American is more or offset by the cost of a wall. I'm not directly affected by immigration policy so my views will differ from someone who has themselves or had relatives experience the process. I still believe it should be somewhat difficult to become a full citizen here as our standards should be high.
loveyourbody
New Member
Define charitable? We will agree to disagree my friend. I respect your points and understand your like you have understood mine. I like when I meet someone I can have a conversation with.
This is a bit creepy and possibly grounds for a Ban, but hey at least you can have a conversation unlike a kooky Dr. on here that obsessively repost’s tweets and cartoons about Trump and Republican’s.
There’s always the Trump sticky that I cant believe even became a sticky purely because 99% of it is retweets and rambling and ranting from a weirdo.
loveyourbody
New Member
Calm down bigkilla. GigaloRob and I were having a friendly debate. It is not grounds a ban. I made no threats or said I was going to hurt him. I was just giving him an example of how foreigners feel. No need for drama please...
I enjoy having conversations with people. I like to know what they think, their beliefs, and most importantly why. Like I said I respect his views. It doesn't mean that I agree with him. Every man is entitled to their own madness.
What bothers me is the fact that people expect him to help the low and middle class he won't, how much hatered he has, and how he is making racism ok. My father is foreign and is in the higher end of the tax bracket. He voted for him because financially he wants the tax break that Trump promised. He is between the 28% and 33% income depending on how much profit he makes from his business.
Personally I can't support a person who hates a race for no reason. I can't hate all white people because of Trump. Shit my mother is white and I love that women.
Once again to each their own. We all have to deal with the repercussions from are actions.
As for Doc I have no idea what his political views are.
You are welcome to through in your 2 cents my friend. It's a friendly conversation after all.
tenpoundsleft
Member
Coming in legally is hard, so therefore entering illegally is OK? Damn, whatever correspondence course you're taking sure isn't selective. Master of what btw, wiping your ass? Gender studies? Psychology? Sociology? Must be something useless like that.
I already have a masters.... from an Ivy.... and two STEM degrees.... go away kid, you bore me.
This will be my one post in this discussion. Am I a conservative? Yes. But at the same time I am a supporter of the president of the United States, whoever that may be. In my lifetime there have been several presidents that I did not care for but I supported them anyway because they were voted in by America and became my president. This support does not mean that I agreed with their policies. It means that I did not constantly speak out in public attempting to single-handedly derail their administration.
Now that I've stated my position on the presidents of the United States, whoever they may be at the time, I would like to make a comment about what bothers me about the liberal arguments against the current administration about immigration. Most of the liberal talk about immigration is based solely on racism and this ideology could not be more wrong. The immigration policy of the conservative administration in place today is attempting to halt the inflow of "ILLEGAL" immigrants. Not immigrants as a whole. Anyone who wants to come to the US is still welcome to come here and become a legal citizen. If they don't want to become a legal citizen they should have to return home. This is our country and this policy is already part of our law. It just needs to be enforced. I know our system of citizenship takes quite some time to complete, but these are OUR rules and should be followed or you go home. Since everyone knows this process takes a while, they should just plan for this time instead of trying to circumvent it.
And sir, while this statement may hold true for some illegals, it certainly does not for most. I was a professional tax preparer for many years. During this time I did work for companies that hired people who turned out to be illegal immigrants. These illegal immigrants presented falsified documents in order to be hired and then claimed the maximum number of exemptions so that they would have no income taxes withheld out of their wages. Social security and Medicare taxes were withheld because these taxes are a percentage of income earned and not based on amounts from tables determined by how many exemptions you have available. I can also say without a doubt that these illegal immigrants never planned on filing personal income tax returns on the money that they earned here.
I really wish that this country would recognize that we have an immigration problem because of people entering illegally and not applying for citizenship. It has nothing to do with race.
I'm out...
Now that I've stated my position on the presidents of the United States, whoever they may be at the time, I would like to make a comment about what bothers me about the liberal arguments against the current administration about immigration. Most of the liberal talk about immigration is based solely on racism and this ideology could not be more wrong. The immigration policy of the conservative administration in place today is attempting to halt the inflow of "ILLEGAL" immigrants. Not immigrants as a whole. Anyone who wants to come to the US is still welcome to come here and become a legal citizen. If they don't want to become a legal citizen they should have to return home. This is our country and this policy is already part of our law. It just needs to be enforced. I know our system of citizenship takes quite some time to complete, but these are OUR rules and should be followed or you go home. Since everyone knows this process takes a while, they should just plan for this time instead of trying to circumvent it.
And sir, while this statement may hold true for some illegals, it certainly does not for most. I was a professional tax preparer for many years. During this time I did work for companies that hired people who turned out to be illegal immigrants. These illegal immigrants presented falsified documents in order to be hired and then claimed the maximum number of exemptions so that they would have no income taxes withheld out of their wages. Social security and Medicare taxes were withheld because these taxes are a percentage of income earned and not based on amounts from tables determined by how many exemptions you have available. I can also say without a doubt that these illegal immigrants never planned on filing personal income tax returns on the money that they earned here.
I really wish that this country would recognize that we have an immigration problem because of people entering illegally and not applying for citizenship. It has nothing to do with race.
I'm out...
loveyourbody
New Member
Do you know how to have a discussion? Did you not read my post? I said that we need to fix the immigration system not build a wall. This whole thing about Mexico paying the wall won't ever happen. Why would they? It benefits them in no way. Also I'm not just talking about Hispanic I mean the human race as a whole. We need each other and if America thinks it can function on its own I have some sad news. We are in deep debt because our governments spending problem.
Oh by the way my degree involves the medical field. I care about people. If you are going to insult me I don't want to have a discussion with you. You seem to be full of drama. If anyone is acting like a child it is you. The way you responded is immature and childish. Don't insult people because they do not have your views please grow up. I never disrespected you.
loveyourbody
New Member
First off great post my friend! I wish we lived close because we would be able to have an amazing discussion.
I see where you are coming from and I respect your beliefs. I am not a liberal or a conservative. I likes something about both sides and at the same time hate some of the things they want to do. I don't think we should do food stamp, Medicaid, Medicare, or tax breaks. People use these to find loop holes. At the same time I like the equality aspect of liberals.
See now that I agree with 100%. If someone isn't paying their taxes I think they should get deported or jail time. However at the same time we have citizens using every trick in the book to avoid paying taxes. In the end it come back to picking on the foreigners. Why don't they do something about the Americans that are not paying taxes? Once again I agree with what you said my friend. I only want everyone to be treated equally. If an illegal get deported for not paying taxes or sneaking in illegally. Then an American that doesn't pay their taxes should go to jail. Not just lose their belonging.
You earned my respect with your post by the way.
Sincerely LYB
I appreciate your argument but the quoted statement is false.
You're correct it's mostly not a racial issue, this administration is seeking to lower immigration from all parts of the world. I guess it depends on what you mean by "halt" too... IE making it next to impossible to immigrate here versus making it literally impossible. We're at about 50/50 depending on what country you're from and what your background is.
loveyourbody
New Member
American really don't understand how hard of a process it is to become a US citizen or come in legally. They did a study I am going to look it up and post it up on here. Anyways the studies showed that less than 35% of the American public. Yes the born here American were not able to pass the test. Does that not say something about the process? The argument I usually get is that it is not suppose to be easy and I get it. However an America should be able to pass the exam and if they don't should lose their right to vote. I do believe we have a lot of ignorant and illiterate people in America. At my work place we have to dumb things down to a 4th grade comprehension level...
It should be hard however, it should also be less obscure... There are some absolutely archaic guidelines for immigration currently.
If the process was difficult yet REALISTIC, there wouldn't be an immigration problem in this country to the extent there is now. This administration will only exacerbate it.
In addition, aside from immigration, I'm being given forecasts that show health insurance costs will be increasing yet again this year... Thanks, Trump.
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