The Lobster International, AU, CANADA and EU Domestic HGH, PEPTIDES and Turkish Pharmacy

[RockyP]

Rule of thumb is as long as you're below 1.5x upper limit of the normal IGF-1 range, you can probably stay there indefinately without developing acromegalic features. So this is for those planning on staying on forever. The higher you go beyond 1.5x, the less time there is before acromegalic changes occur. How long? No one can say for sure. I've read one example that showed a case where @ 2x IGF ULN noticeable changes took about 2 years.

And sorry, no, there are no studies intentionally injecting healthy bodybuilders with supra-physiologic doses until they develop the disease. We have to make our best guess from the available data. So far all we've seen are a handful of celebrities and athletes suspected of developing it, who'll never admit rHGH use. Until recently, running high doses daily for years was out of the question for anyone but the very wealthy.

View attachment 341338

Bookmarked. Thank you for this. LabCorp has "270" as the blanket ULN. Where do they pull that number out of?

I'm in my 40's and 4 iu of Pharma GH gave me an IGF-1 of 308. I get great results from that dosage and I don't think I'd even go beyond it, but it seems that I could prob push to 6 iu and stay well under the 1.5X ULN.

 

[readalot]

Lots of great scientific info in this thread. Here's some bro-science / anecdotal info:

This guy runs 10 iu (or at least he was for his most recent prep):
View attachment 341342

For this guy, 6 iu is his "sweet spot" (recent interview):
View attachment 341343

Kevin Levrone only ran GH very briefly during his career as he did not like the "watery" look it gave him:
View attachment 341345

~0.1 to 1 PPB genes.

 

[Photon]

Rule of thumb is as long as you're below 1.5x upper limit of the normal IGF-1 range, you can probably stay there indefinately without developing acromegalic features. So this is for those planning on staying on forever. The higher you go beyond 1.5x, the less time there is before acromegalic changes occur. How long? No one can say for sure. I've read one example that showed a case where @ 2x IGF ULN noticeable changes took about 2 years.

And sorry, no, there are no studies intentionally injecting healthy bodybuilders with supra-physiologic doses until they develop the disease. We have to make our best guess from the available data. So far all we've seen are a handful of celebrities and athletes suspected of developing it, who'll never admit rHGH use. Until recently, running high doses daily for years was out of the question for anyone but the very wealthy.

View attachment 341338

Can anything be done during the "cruise" stage in order to reverse this?

 

[Ghoul]

Bookmarked. Thank you for this. LabCorp has "270" as the blanket ULN. Where do they pull that number out of?

I'm in my 40's and 4 iu of Pharma GH gave me an IGF-1 of 308. I get great results from that dosage and I don't think I'd even go beyond it, but it seems that I could prob push to 6 iu and stay well under the 1.5X ULN.

Labcorp has a technical note that says they developed their reference range for IGF based on a huge study of IGF levels in healthy people in Europe and the US, linked below. They went with the median level for each age and sex.

Notice the top of range "USA" line is significantly higher (look at IGF in burger eating US teens).

Had they stuck with US only subjects, "normal" IGF would've been much higher.



The study theorizes the higher US IGF levels may be due to greater protein intake. So the reference range you see is a little deceptive because EU vegan manlet IGF Levels don't really apply to us:

Differences in the Distribution of IGF-I Concentrations Between European and US Populations - PMC

Method-specific reference intervals (RIs) determine utility of IGF-I as a biomarker in GH-related diseases. Differences between populations might affect applicability of RIs. To compare population-specific RIs derived from IGF-I routine testing in ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[readalot]

FIG. 2
Individual points and fitted percentiles for males (right side) and females (left side). Displayed are the 2.5%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 97.5% percentiles calculated by quantile regression via vector generalized additive models (LMS VGAM method).

Had they stuck with US only subjects, "normal" IGF would've been much higher.

Compare.

 

[Ghoul]

Can anything be done during the "cruise" stage in order to reverse this?

Most soft tissue changes are reversible if caught early enough just by dropping IGF. Even in "true" acromegaly, they'll use meds to drop IGF and can reverse those changes.

But bone and cartilage growth are a one way street.

 

[Eddie.]

Lots of great scientific info in this thread. Here's some bro-science / anecdotal info:

This guy runs 10 iu (or at least he was for his most recent prep):
View attachment 341342

For this guy, 6 iu is his "sweet spot" (recent interview):
View attachment 341343

Kevin Levrone only ran GH very briefly during his career as he did not like the "watery" look it gave him:
View attachment 341345

Nice. IIRC Roman Fritz said in a podcast he was using 36IU of pharma genotropin per day for sometime. Also there was a guy on PM running 50IU on training days and somewhat lower on rest days. To this day though there are plenty of guys running 12+ IU without any bg and insulin resistance problems. Sure it’s genetic but mostly is the diet and ancillaries.

 

[RockyP]

Nice. IIRC Roman Fritz said in a podcast he was using 36IU of pharma genotropin per day for sometime. Also there was a guy on PM running 50IU on training days and somewhat lower on rest days. To this day though there are plenty of guys running 12+ IU without any bg and insulin resistance problems. Sure it’s genetic but mostly is the diet and ancillaries.

I am thankful to them for experimenting on themselves. I am too much of a pussy / sissy / loser to look at massive amounts of data from the pharmaceutical company that invented the drug and just toss it aside and say “fuck it.”

 

[dinfar1337]

Compare.

ghoul is defiently right

usa top igf-1

we also know food intake increases igf

why so fat american?

your point stands

 

[Eddie.]

I am thankful to them for experimenting on themselves. I am too much of a pussy / sissy / loser to look at massive amounts of data from the pharmaceutical company that invented the drug and just toss it aside and say “fuck it.”

Yeah, we do this already with test. We use 10+ times the prescribed dose and most of us are fine.

 

[Ghoul]

Compare.

So what I see is that the 2014 study, had 15,000 subjects, across the US and Europe.

The 2022 study labcorp sets their normal range by used 800,000 subjects, delineated them by location, EU or US, and based on the much higher upper IGF levels in the US concluded that reference ranges should be set based on region (which labcorp didn't do):



Like extra wide airplanes seats and "Big and Tall" stores, we should be separated out from the international stats to protect the rest of the world from our oversized IGF.

 

[RockyP]

Reminds me of the man who jumped out the 90th floor window and as he flew down past the 35th floor he shouted out proudly “so far so good!”

 

[dinfar1337]

Reminds me of the man who jumped out the 90th floor window and as he flew down past the 35th floor he shouted out proudly “so far so good!”

the issue here is we jumped from the 1001010340130413041043 floor and we're only past 93491234913294010 floor yet.

20 years yet and we can start to regret

for some it might've been 90th floor but we are still here everyday so i guess not the majority

 

[Eddie.]

Reminds me of the man who jumped out the 90th floor window and as he flew down past the 35th floor he shouted out proudly “so far so good!”

Buddy if you’re seeking to live up to 130 years old perhaps you’d need to look up to Bryan Johnson’s forum and some mitochondrial support and not a steroid board lol. Obviously we’re driving in the fast lane.

 

[readalot]

Bryan Johnson’s

Odds he makes it to 80?

 

[RockyP]

Buddy if you’re seeking to live up to 130 years old perhaps you’d need to look up to Bryan Johnson’s forum and some mitochondrial support and not a steroid board lol. Obviously we’re driving in the fast lane.

Cool bro. Go faster.

Does this fast lane ever make it to more than a regional competition? Or a bodyweight over 225 lbs? You do realize that top competitors think you guys are all fools right? Taking more gear than they do to be half the size and nobody knows your name? But I do realize you guys have made some sort of peace with the fantasy you live in. And bless your little hearts for that.

 

[Eddie.]

Cool bro. Go faster.

Does this fast lane ever make it to more than a regional competition? You do realize that top competitors think you guys are all fools right? Taking more gear than they do to be half the size and nobody knows your name? But I do realize you guys have made some sort of peace with the fantasy you live in. And bless your little hearts for that.

I couldn’t care less about what pros or even you think about my gear use buddy. Is gear usage automatically justified if you wear a sparkly underwear put some oil and get on stage? Pull your self together please.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Based on your chart and my age range I am good. I do plan to stay on it long term just like I plan to stay on tirz long term as well. Good stuff here @Ghoul

Oh and Sylvester Stallone looks ugly af. He definitely has it. Lol

Yeah but he's always been ugly

Getting ugly with age? Oh man, you had me worried. I've been ugly my whole life. Nothing to worry about then!

A stronger chin might not be a bad thing ? xD

 

[Anonymous member 154437]

little hearts

You sure?

 

[AlexDavis43]

Nice. IIRC Roman Fritz said in a podcast he was using 36IU of pharma genotropin per day for sometime. Also there was a guy on PM running 50IU on training days and somewhat lower on rest days. To this day though there are plenty of guys running 12+ IU without any bg and insulin resistance problems. Sure it’s genetic but mostly is the diet and ancillaries.

Lots of great scientific info in this thread. Here's some bro-science / anecdotal info:

This guy runs 10 iu (or at least he was for his most recent prep):
View attachment 341342

For this guy, 6 iu is his "sweet spot" (recent interview):
View attachment 341343

Kevin Levrone only ran GH very briefly during his career as he did not like the "watery" look it gave him:
View attachment 341345

Some of these guys are going to make very interesting case studies for GH use in bodybuilders in a few years

But also, we should be seeing signs now in some if it's only 8 years, so...?

Maybe elite bodybuilding genetics also includes not-prone-to-acromegaly