Ateam2023
Member
i actually have to take a small amount of dex @200 mg of testosterone a week , even if i split doses, which i think everyone should do for "more stable hormone levels ",, Split there test dose that is,,
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Starting TRT at home, any help for first timer?
- Thread starter Bocacolony
- Start date
AlexDavis43
Member
As someone with truly low testosterone (double digits), can confirm
My TRT is 120/wk and it helps tremendously
If backfilling, be as sterile as possible. Make sure your plunger only touches something sterile. Keep it open to the air for as short a time as possible. Never touch any of the inner pieces with your finger.
I would rather just swap needles on a non insulin syringe, but people seems to love the insulin pins for oils.
After getting into amateur mycology, its easy to understand how "completely unknown how it happened" infections start. A nutrient plate just being open to the air for a few seconds can grow all kinds of strange molds and bacterias. Touching a surface that was just sanitized with 70% alcohol will still always grow bacteria. Its not a big risk if following all the sterile procedure, just trying to share some risk prevention.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
I do 90mg of Test E every other day. Which is 0.3ml of oil. I’ve only ever injected with 29g half inch needles.
I started off subq, and got horrible post injection pain. Terrible lumps that’d last a week and would kill if touched.
I then did shallow IM into the quads and glutes. After a few hours I’d get pain when using those muscles during exercise, but the pain would subside shortly after warming up.
I’ve now switched back to subq. I do hips and ass, picking whichever spot feels the least lumpy. For whatever reason, the lumps I get are hardly painful at all. Maybe my technique is better now.
Here’s my rundown:
-IM is more painful during administration. Sometimes very painful. Subq feels like nothing during administration
-IM is a lot less painful post-injection. Sometimes with subq I get a particularly nasty lump that lasts a few days
-IM increases circulation of the drug faster than subq. Which also means subq will give you more stable levels
-IM is definitely better suited for large injection volumes. The amount you inject subq is proportionate to the pain you get
-IM is less safe than subq. You’re more likely to hit a vessel IM, and you’d rather have an infection in your fat than your muscle
Based on my own blood tests, and the studies I’ve read, subq is not more likely to raise e2.
If I was you, I’d recommend trying subq first, and seeing how you get on with lumps/pain. It’s far safer subq than IM. And if you’re not injecting big volumes, the pain should be very tolerable.
IM is the gold standard for a reason. 1" needle 25g is what I've always used. Anything up to 1ml for someone brand new doesn't matter the muscle group. Change the needle after draw. The stopper will dull it. The needle you inject with should be virgin.
Doesn't hurt going in, or during the 20-60 seconds it takes to inject. Within 5 minutes after, i wont think about it at all. Sometimes by later that day i can forget which side i injected.
I was used to grape seed back in the day, but MCT is much thinner. VERY quick to pull and inject. This minimizes the shaky hands portion of soreness. If using non MCT, heat up the vial under the sink before pulling.
Proper technique IM is the best in my opinion. Any other results, are either high solvent gear, bad technique, or far less often an intolerance to something in the mix. After brewing myself for a few cycles, there's a giant soreness difference in the amount of BA used. Don't be afraid to switch suppliers after you get a lasting pain that isn't hot for 2-3 shots in a row.
Doesn't hurt going in, or during the 20-60 seconds it takes to inject. Within 5 minutes after, i wont think about it at all. Sometimes by later that day i can forget which side i injected.
I was used to grape seed back in the day, but MCT is much thinner. VERY quick to pull and inject. This minimizes the shaky hands portion of soreness. If using non MCT, heat up the vial under the sink before pulling.
Proper technique IM is the best in my opinion. Any other results, are either high solvent gear, bad technique, or far less often an intolerance to something in the mix. After brewing myself for a few cycles, there's a giant soreness difference in the amount of BA used. Don't be afraid to switch suppliers after you get a lasting pain that isn't hot for 2-3 shots in a row.
Ateam2023
Member
IM quads , VG , delts, all with a 1" 25 g smoooth like butter, volumes well over 1 ml too,,
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Yet ive never heard a particularly compelling reason.
I’ve heard it’s less painful overall than subq, and that it’s more suited to higher volumes. And I agree with those statements.
But that’s where the benefits seem to end.
If you’re only wanting to pin twice per week and in the 120mg-225mg range total I suggest IM with a 3cc syringe, 1” x 25g pin. And draw with a 18g or 21g and swap tips before pinning. Alternating every 3.5 days between ventroglutes.
All things considered for a newbie, that’s my recommendation for starting.
If I’m not doing daily injections with a slin pin and shallow IM on cruise, then I am using a 3cc x 25g x 1” and alternating between ventroglutes, quads and delts.
I never had an issue with scar tissue buildup if I just pinned ventroglutes twice weekly for up to 16 weeks. Any more volume or duration of pinning and I found I needed to add at least one more injection site to the rotation to avoid scar tissue buildup.
All things considered for a newbie, that’s my recommendation for starting.
If I’m not doing daily injections with a slin pin and shallow IM on cruise, then I am using a 3cc x 25g x 1” and alternating between ventroglutes, quads and delts.
I never had an issue with scar tissue buildup if I just pinned ventroglutes twice weekly for up to 16 weeks. Any more volume or duration of pinning and I found I needed to add at least one more injection site to the rotation to avoid scar tissue buildup.
For a trt dose, it seems fine, if a little painful. I've never tried oils subq. IM is definitely less painful. If OP wants to eventually cycle he will need to learn IM anyways. I thought a counterpoint to your argument for subq would be useful for OP to compare.
You should definitely give IM another try with a different source. It shouldn't hurt at all.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Good idea!
The pain I experience during IM administration is from the needle, as it hurts before pressing the plunger.
But pain avoidance isn’t why I do subq, as subq hurts me more overall. I do subq as the complications from infection are much lesser.
Savagesteve
Member
Why pin cyp ed? Get some prop if you wanna pin it that way imo. I pin cyp 2x a week on my legit trt and my trough level is 550ish. Haven’t done bloods with the doc yet to see where my peak is at 150mg a week. Been blasting and cruising for 8 years or so.
Bocacolony
New Member
I'm
Insulin pen
1/2" 29g insulin pen needles, 70, shallow IM
3cc sterile pen cartridges, 5
5/16" insulin pen needles, 200 , SUBQ
test c 10ml vile, 250mg/ml
One of the peptides I've been using hurts pretty bad, but when I switched from my belly to my glutes, it's very manageable, it sounds like oils hurt more, so I think I'll try both to see, but planning on shallow IM for long term
I was planning originally to micro dose, and pin every day, the actual volume then would be tiny, but all this talk got me worried, and I'm thinking twice a week or EOD splitting around 120mg/wk
I'm still reading through the forums and trying to educate myself as much as I can, so thanks a lot for the wisdom
Really trying brother, I keep it clean, probably to clean, focusing mainly on protein, but that keeps me to lean, in trying to double my carbs
Waiting on my shipment, but my supplies are as follows
Insulin pen
1/2" 29g insulin pen needles, 70, shallow IM
3cc sterile pen cartridges, 5
5/16" insulin pen needles, 200 , SUBQ
test c 10ml vile, 250mg/ml
One of the peptides I've been using hurts pretty bad, but when I switched from my belly to my glutes, it's very manageable, it sounds like oils hurt more, so I think I'll try both to see, but planning on shallow IM for long term
I was planning originally to micro dose, and pin every day, the actual volume then would be tiny, but all this talk got me worried, and I'm thinking twice a week or EOD splitting around 120mg/wk
I'm still reading through the forums and trying to educate myself as much as I can, so thanks a lot for the wisdom
Bocacolony
New Member
I can order 1" luer lock syringe tips ( needles), but they only come in 25g from my source, they also have 3ml or 1ml luer lock syringes
Should I order some of these to have 1" needles on hand?
I thought I'd be fine with shallow IM, 1/2",
As I'm pretty lean.
Civdiv
Member
Hey, I started at a similar test range as you about a year ago and thought I'd throw out a few mistakes and things I learned.
It's been said but start lower dose and move up over time. Wait about 6 weeks at each new dose before you bump it up again. I stated at 150mg/week because I figured to a point more is better. Felt amazing for a few weeks then lost libido and just felt off. Wanted that good feeling back so started an AI figuring E2 was off. I was getting labs and saw E2 rising but didn't really understand that people feel different at different E2 numbers. I was chasing numbers based on what I read other people were at instead of using the numbers as a reference for how I feel at different levels. Started hcg later trying to fix libido. I was all over the place changing things so fast I never gave time for my body to adjust to the new hormones. After a lot of research I slowed down. I dumped the AI and the hcg, and dropped my dose to 100mg/week split in 2 doses. Libido got more jacked but I waited it out 8 weeks. By the end of the 8 weeks I was feeling pretty good. Bumbed it up to 120mg/week and rode it for 6 weeks. Now I'm at 140/week and labs have me around 1200 test. I'm bumping to 160 next week.
Moving up slowly has made a huge impact on my body adjusting to the dose and feeling good. Probably sounds obvious to a lot of experienced people, but it's hard not to get excited and just start jacking with everything trying to get dialed in quickly when you're new.
Basically, plan on maybe feeling off before you feel better but don't change anything until you've given your body time to adjust. TRT is not a quick fix. It's a journey. At least that's been my experience.
It's been said but start lower dose and move up over time. Wait about 6 weeks at each new dose before you bump it up again. I stated at 150mg/week because I figured to a point more is better. Felt amazing for a few weeks then lost libido and just felt off. Wanted that good feeling back so started an AI figuring E2 was off. I was getting labs and saw E2 rising but didn't really understand that people feel different at different E2 numbers. I was chasing numbers based on what I read other people were at instead of using the numbers as a reference for how I feel at different levels. Started hcg later trying to fix libido. I was all over the place changing things so fast I never gave time for my body to adjust to the new hormones. After a lot of research I slowed down. I dumped the AI and the hcg, and dropped my dose to 100mg/week split in 2 doses. Libido got more jacked but I waited it out 8 weeks. By the end of the 8 weeks I was feeling pretty good. Bumbed it up to 120mg/week and rode it for 6 weeks. Now I'm at 140/week and labs have me around 1200 test. I'm bumping to 160 next week.
Moving up slowly has made a huge impact on my body adjusting to the dose and feeling good. Probably sounds obvious to a lot of experienced people, but it's hard not to get excited and just start jacking with everything trying to get dialed in quickly when you're new.
Basically, plan on maybe feeling off before you feel better but don't change anything until you've given your body time to adjust. TRT is not a quick fix. It's a journey. At least that's been my experience.
Ateam2023
Member
imo/ime if your not exceeding 1 ml per injection , why use a 3 ml syringe, You're gonna like the ease the 1 ml syringe is to push in the oil through a 1" 25 g needle compared to the 3 ml one , But more volume requires bigger syringe obviously,,
Bocacolony
New Member
I guess I was asking if I could get by with the 1/2" 29g tips for my pen, doing Shallow IM?
Especially being pretty lean, it seems like 1/2" would get into something
But I will go ahead and order some of the 1" 25g just to have all the options.
I was really wanting to use the pen I already have and am used to using, but seems like the majority of people say stick to the basics,
Also, listening to everyone, and feeling grateful, I will start at 100mg/wk, I'm not in a rush, and I don't want sides, I could even start at 90 if that's wise.
Current updated plan is EOD IM, 30-33mg.
It seems like this is a good way to get the benefits of daily subQ, (more steady, less sides, less spikes, e2) while also getting the tested and true results from proper IM.
I really wanted subQ to work, as I'm just so comfortable with it already from daily peptides, having the daily routine down, sterile practices, and also just having the supplies on hand already, but I've read and read on this forum and others, and it sounds like most people have horror stories with lumps and pain and even stories of people feeling worse and then immediately better when dosing IM.
For a beginner it's really hard to filter this information , But one thing I'm sure of is start low and dose at least twice a week and give it time and consistency
Welcome any feedback, thanks
Civdiv
Member
Honestly man the lump and pain isn't that bad unless you pumping a lot of oil or higher concentrations. At least from what I've heard. There's definitely a mental hurdle of stabbing yourself deep with a needle. At least for me. My wife still injects my delts for me and it's been over a year. I'm still working myself up to self injecting. Damn near did self ventroglute this weekend and bitched out. I'm just saying that because I get it. But except for a couple times when she must have hit a nerve or something, I barely even know she's got a needle in me and just a little pressure when she injects. Almost zero discomfort and definitely zero pain.
Just remember to get labs frequently in the beginning so you can relate numbers to how you feel. It will help later when you start ramping up to recognize what's going.
Just remember to get labs frequently in the beginning so you can relate numbers to how you feel. It will help later when you start ramping up to recognize what's going.
You could read a full IKEA manual on how to do this and not be comfortable with it. I did my entire first cycle of ghrp-6 IM every day because subq seemed dangerous . We all start somewhere. At some point we suck it up and follow best practices, or just neverendingly post threads about how to get jacked under different accounts.
I’d say both if you can afford. I use both throughout the year. I think my slin pins are 1cc x 1/2” x 29g.
Pretty much the only thing I can’t routinely get through the slin pin is micronized test powder in water. It’s usually just a little too thick to flow through. Most UG sources these days are using oils thin enough to fit through them so that makes it easy for small amounts to be injected.
But those and the 25g x 3cc are the only pins I keep in stock and I don’t use any products that require anything outside of those sizes for injection.
200mg is teh maximum amount allowed for a trt.....
for non responders.....
most people have high value with 100 mg...
Personally i have 800 ng/dl with JUST 60mg.....
all the rest is bullsht of gymbro
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