Starting at 48 - any advice

[bboyvince]

Hi guys
New to this forum, very nice to get to meet y’all
So I’m a 48 year old man, decided to start what I guess you’d call a TRT+ protocol
I’m aiming at 200 test-e per week, pinning twice a week to keep my levels steady and avoid sides. Will inject IM into my delts using a 23G / 25 mm syringes
Done my labs to see where I’m at before starting, and planning to do monthly follow up of the main markers (hormones, lipids, hematocrits…)
Does all that sound sensible so far ?
What else should I do / know to start in the best way possible ?
Is this possible to keep this up essentially forever, or should I stop after awhile and run some kind of PCT ? If yes, what are the best products I should buy to help me get back to my natural baseline without suffering too much…
I’ve heard of HCG, is this a compound strictly used in the context of PCT, or could I run it together with test ?
Well, I guess I have much more questions but I’ll leave it at that for now
Thanks for your help guys

 

[sionnach]

My advice is repost this in the New Members forum

 

[BigDadd7]

Good start. Next steps are read read read. There is so much information here. You could become a virtual expert in a short period of time.

 

[bboyvince]

Thank you @BigDadd7, will do
I’m learning the forums features and etiquette as I go, so my apologies in advance if I do any the usual beginners mistakes
Also, I just posted a short introduction of myself in the appropriate sub forum
Looking forward to interacting with you guys !

 

[bboyvince]

My advice is repost this in the New Members forum

Thanks @sionnach, I basically just did that

 

[MuscularMD]

Hi guys
New to this forum, very nice to get to meet y’all
So I’m a 48 year old man, decided to start what I guess you’d call a TRT+ protocol
I’m aiming at 200 test-e per week, pinning twice a week to keep my levels steady and avoid sides. Will inject IM into my delts using a 23G / 25 mm syringes

I’d add your glutes in addition to your delts so you rotate more sites. Some people do quads, but I find it painful or I bruise easier injecting there.

Done my labs to see where I’m at before starting, and planning to do monthly follow up of the main markers (hormones, lipids, hematocrits…)

No need to do monthly. When first starting, after 8 weeks and then once you get your routine down, twice a year.

Does all that sound sensible so far ?
What else should I do / know to start in the best way possible ?

Everyone is different. Learn about e2 management. Also, people often forget that if you start test and have male pattern baldness, you can accelerate that. There are ways to mitigate that in the hair loss thread.

Is this possible to keep this up essentially forever, or should I stop after awhile and run some kind of PCT ? If yes, what are the best products I should buy to help me get back to my natural baseline without suffering too much…

Since it’s TRT, you’ll be on testosterone for the rest of your life because you’re low at baseline. Right?! No need for pct. If you decide to blast, just return back to your trt dosing.

I’ve heard of HCG, is this a compound strictly used in the context of PCT, or could I run it together with test ?

You can run HCG with your test. Some people like that to maintain ball size and ejaculate volume. Also to help maintain fertility. It does make e2 management more challenging though and you’ll likely need less test.

Well, I guess I have much more questions but I’ll leave it at that for now
Thanks for your help guys

Welcome to the party.

 

[dudemos]

Good info from @MuscularMD! Definitely keep an eye on E2 and hair loss if you're predisposed.

 

[bboyvince]

Thanks guys and special thanks to @MuscularMD your reply has been very useful ! About labs frequency, I read somewhere that a first picture was useful at 4 weeks in, but frequency could then be spaced out if nothing alarming shows up…since I’ve started, I’ve definitely been feeling some sort of negative side effects such as fatigue, elevated heart rate and unusual breathlessness. Maybe due to elevated blood pressure and / or hematocrit levels ? I guess labs will tell, they’re due next week…I’ve already reduced the dose a little bit to be on the safe side. Right now I’m doing 40mg EOD (equating to 140mg per week, instead of 200). Feeling much better already . It’s crazy to think that people do anything above 200 without having used test before…definitely wouldn’t recommend that !
Also, thanks for advising pinning the glutes area, suits me much better, PiP has literally been suppressed

 

[bboyvince]

Also, for what it’s worth, I’ve been putting on 15 pounds of muscle since the start. The results are clearly visible, everybody notices the change and I do get a lot of compliments

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

First thought is 200mg a week is a bit much for TRT. What are you injecting exactly? Test-E? Unless you were very low to start, that might put you above the average band. Up to you what to think of that, just watch your E2. If E2 is high, I recommend lowering Test and adding something else. Primo works wonders to reduce E2 but just cutting Test might be enough at that dosage.

In terms of expectation, and this is anecdotal but I never got a single shred of energy from anything I have tried, not even during my mild blasts. Ive tried a few things from Test, Tren, Deca, NPP, Anavar, Primo, to HGH, different foods and suppliments. None of them gave me trouble but none of them gave me energy either. I did heal long term injuries which was the goal and im stronger and more fit, but I struggle every workout. Hopefully it will be different for you in terms of energy, but just throwing it out there.

PCT worked for me and did restore my T production post 16 week Test-C cycle using clomid, nolvadex, and HCG prior. So its an option if you want it. But at our age, im not sure there is a point.

PCT requires you stop AAS. HCG can be run along side TRT but im not sure about wisdom of running it long term and on its own isnt going to fully restore your functionality. At some point you will need the other meds or at the very least, you need to give it a break for a long time for your body to work it out. Those other meds accelerate the restoration process.

No one knows how long it will take you to get back to normal with PCT. Its different for each person and Ive read some really struggle with it. Might be worth it to try it at least once to see how your body reacts to the meds in case you ever do need them. But if you know you wont have more kids then whats the point? Again up to you.

For blood tests, take them every time you change something in your regimen. Otherwise once you nailed down a regimen, you probably wont need them as frequently. Monthly is great for monitoring purposes, but is probably overkill once you nailed things down.

Best of luck.

 

[bboyvince]

Thanks @thejumpingsheep for your feedback and insights, much appreciated
I lowered the dose from 200>140 per week and changed the ester (enanthate>cypionate). Most of the side effects I was experiencing at the beginning were solved. Labs are due next week so fingers crossed
I’m not feeling any e2 related side effects but I did order 2 vials of primo just in case…are the e2 management effects immediate after the first primo injection or should I do a full cycle ?
Regarding the energy, this is what surprised me the most as I had big expectations in that department. I did increase strength in the gym and it clearly shows on my body, but outside the gym I’m rather more tired than usual. Maybe it’s a matter of hormonal adaptation that will fade away with time ? Also, I guess that building so much muscle in such little amount of time is demanding for the body, so it might just be (part of) the explanation.
Time will tell and I’ll keep posting the evolution
Have a nice day everyone!

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Thanks @thejumpingsheep for your feedback and insights, much appreciated
I lowered the dose from 200>140 per week and changed the ester (enanthate>cypionate). Most of the side effects I was experiencing at the beginning were solved. Labs are due next week so fingers crossed
I’m not feeling any e2 related side effects but I did order 2 vials of primo just in case…are the e2 management effects immediate after the first primo injection or should I do a full cycle ?
Regarding the energy, this is what surprised me the most as I had big expectations in that department. I did increase strength in the gym and it clearly shows on my body, but outside the gym I’m rather more tired than usual. Maybe it’s a matter of hormonal adaptation that will fade away with time ? Also, I guess that building so much muscle in such little amount of time is demanding for the body, so it might just be (part of) the explanation.
Time will tell and I’ll keep posting the evolution
Have a nice day everyone!

Or it could just be that we are getting old...er. Honestly i havent given up on this but I simply havent unlocked a solution to the energy problem.

Primo Enanthate has something like 5-6 day half life if memory serves me. You will probably get E2 suppression in a couple of weeks though in rare cases, Ive heard some people dont get any suppression with it at all and there are a few cases where they didnt react well to it despite it being one of the more mild AAS. I would wait a month for full effect and then pull bloods.

That being said, since you reduced Test to 140mg you may not need it. You just need to check your E2 and note the E2 is not always the devil it made out to be. In fact you want some E2 for joints and tendons and the effects are not always immediate. It really is a case by case basis so you just need to check your levels, and see how it feels. That being said, as I understand it, prolonged high levels of E2 will eventually cause feminine side effects so you dont want to run super high for too long. Super high around here seems to be above 80 pg/mL and even then, some of those folks say that they like how it feels so they just let it go during cycles.

From personal experience with E2, I like how I feel at around 40-60. My normal baseline for E2 is actually so low its undetectable by E2 Sensitive test... and I always had some joint and tendon issues. They were never horrible but my knees and shoulders joints and the spine around my neck hurt at times and hurt more for a few days after a workout.

I had noticeable relief in my knees when my E2 got up to 50's during my 1st Test-C only cycle. It used to be that every time I worked on legs, like squats or leg press, I the knee would have throbbing pain for 2-4 days (not soreness, but just pain). During cycle however I barely get a little weakness for a few hours after workout and I am good the next day (except for one case when I got a flareup but that was only once).

Last bit of advice, when ordering roids, in general, try to order as much as you can afford. Reason is, testing them is expensive and sometimes the test is just as expensive as the product. So for example, two bottles of Primo is probably going to run $150-$200 these days but the test is $120... see what I mean? When that primo runs you, you have to re-test again. Better to simply buy as much as you can afford to maximize the financial burden of testing your products... which you should always do or at least participate in a testing group. Of course you are still learning about these compounds so I get it. You just want to try them 1st and that makes sense. Just keep this in mind for the future to save a few bucks.

 

[bboyvince]

Thanks again @thejumpingsheep
I must admit I’m not testing stuff myself but would blindly rely on reviews I’d read on places like here. If the source is reputable, I trust them on product authenticity and overall safety … should I think again ? Do you always send stuff out for third party testing every time you receive something ? Sounds costly to me in the long run, except if you order in bulk as you described

 

[bboyvince]

That being said, I admit that I was disappointed by a source that was supposed to be reliable (not sure if I should name names on this thread). Their batch of test-e was causing me some PiP and a mild discomfort in the heart area
I’ve ordered and received test-cyp from another source since then, and I am now using that stuff, which causes me more positive and less side effects. I haven’t yet decided what to do with the initial stuff, as the order was worth around 250 USD, it’s hard to just throw everything away, even tho it’s probably what I’m gonna do eventually…safety first !
But here again, maybe it’s rather the changes done to dosing and ester that made the difference ? It’s hard to tell at this point since I changed product, dosing, ester, injection frequency and area (switched from delts to glutes) all at the same time ! Maybe I’ll give the initial product one last chance after I run away of my current batch of test-cyp

 

[Rand]

Hi guys
New to this forum, very nice to get to meet y’all
So I’m a 48 year old man, decided to start what I guess you’d call a TRT+ protocol
I’m aiming at 200 test-e per week, pinning twice a week to keep my levels steady and avoid sides. Will inject IM into my delts using a 23G / 25 mm syringes
Done my labs to see where I’m at before starting, and planning to do monthly follow up of the main markers (hormones, lipids, hematocrits…)
Does all that sound sensible so far ?
What else should I do / know to start in the best way possible ?
Is this possible to keep this up essentially forever, or should I stop after awhile and run some kind of PCT ? If yes, what are the best products I should buy to help me get back to my natural baseline without suffering too much…
I’ve heard of HCG, is this a compound strictly used in the context of PCT, or could I run it together with test ?
Well, I guess I have much more questions but I’ll leave it at that for now
Thanks for your help guys

- i thought i needed 200 mg as well. Turned out 100 mg more than enough
- delts hurt the most. Lats least for me. Woah, 23 G gonna hurt.
- did labs and found all the men's clinics doctors to be totally ignorant
- i found meso while desperately looking for hcg. I'm still looking for pramipexole. Have cabergoline.

In the end, i went off testosterone.

I do hcg, hgh and ss31.

Keeping all the other stuff i bought till I truly need it.

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Thanks again @thejumpingsheep
I must admit I’m not testing stuff myself but would blindly rely on reviews I’d read on places like here. If the source is reputable, I trust them on product authenticity and overall safety … should I think again ? Do you always send stuff out for third party testing every time you receive something ? Sounds costly to me in the long run, except if you order in bulk as you described

In general, never trust the sources. Even the biggest ones have had major problems and many dont actually make their own product to begin with and have no idea what in their own product. They are actually just resellers for a warehouse and sometimes different sources use the same warehouse. Its kind of funny.

But to make the point, the biggest source around here with over 4000 pages on their thread, basically went dark for nearly a full year from late 2024 to about a month ago. Orders that were made got seized and even though they returned, are not making good on their own reship or refund policies for orders that never made it to customers. So these sources are not as stable as you think.

Further all the major sources have had bad products almost without exception. Most make good on it by offering a credit but not always. In fact that happened to me just this week with WWB and under dosed stuff. They did make good on refund and giving me credit but I was out the cost of testing so I am still out $120. Thats how it is and it will probably happen to you eventually.

Also dont trust old tests (like more than a couple of months old). Old tests are unlikely to apply to something you bought recently because its probably a different batch. Just because an old batch was good, doesnt mean the stuff you bought is.

In summary never trust sources and really dont trust anyone you dont know well around here. We have high school kids running around giving advice, we have guys with IQ of dog turds, guys with severe body dismorphia problems who will say dumb ass shit and a bunch more highly assertive guys with fake alpha complexes (seems to be getting worse recently) who think assertiveness makes them "strong" when in reality they are betas who just dont know how to shut up when they dont know something, and so on. Its especially bad in the body building world. Lots of fakes and frauds. There are good people here too so dont get me wrong, but in general, dont trust anyone. Do your own DD.

Testing groups help with cost if you can find them or form them. I will trust blind 3rd party tests done by members here who share their Jano results be it for free or for a small price to split the costs of testing. But just make sure you have the exact product they are testing. It has to be from the same warehouse, purchased around the same time (give or take), are packaged and labeled the same, and so on.