What do you guys think about SS reform and what would you like to see happen? Private accounts? Tax all of people's income, regardless of income? What do you think?
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Social Security Reform
- Thread starter Bob Smith
- Start date
Grizzly
New Member
The reform I would most like to see is 1% of all tax money generated should be directed into an account for me. I would then be very socially secure. 
Beefy
New Member
I've got to warn you, Bob. If you're not careful you're going to lose my uneducated ass really quick in a discussion about Social Security reform. 
Really quick.
But I'll give it a try...From what I know about the proposed private account plan, I like that route. I really don't see it as the gov't's responsibility to save for my retirement. Like I said, I'm far from an expert in this field, but why are some people so upset about not having Social Security pension like our grand parents did? It's a different world we live in now. People should be more aware and pro-active in regards to their savings and retirement anyways.
Really quick.But I'll give it a try...From what I know about the proposed private account plan, I like that route. I really don't see it as the gov't's responsibility to save for my retirement. Like I said, I'm far from an expert in this field, but why are some people so upset about not having Social Security pension like our grand parents did? It's a different world we live in now. People should be more aware and pro-active in regards to their savings and retirement anyways.
Since this is the only discussion I am sober enough to talk about, I will try (evolution and the big bang just isn't happening right now). I personally think the private accounts are a great idea, one of the few from our idiotic president besides increasing funding for charter schools.
In my opinion, it is each person's responsibility to ensure that he or she will have the funds necessary to retire when the time comes. This means not buying a $40,000 Yukon when you make $40,001 per year. There is too much info on retirement planning and savings out there now for there to be an excuse to not do this. People like my mom, who is 57, did not have the kind of resources on investing and retirement planning that we do today, so I do not really criticize people from that generation. She read Dave Ramsey's books and paid off everything and is doing fine now, but it makes her sick to know that if she had known about investing at a younger age how much she could have now that she is retired. However, people from our generation have a responsibility to ensure that they will have a nest egg upon retirement, and if they do not tough shit. That's their fault, not mine, and I am sick of seeing exorbitant amounts of money taken from my paycheck for a socialist, soon to be bankrupt program.
The Libertarian Party also advocates SS reform in this manner, and I am glad that Bush has adopted something from the party's platform. SS reform has to happen, and hopefully Bush will use his political capital to do this.
EDIT: BTW, to answer your question Bob, private accounts are the way to go IMO. People need to assume more responsiblity for their financial health in the future, and this is the only way to do it.
In my opinion, it is each person's responsibility to ensure that he or she will have the funds necessary to retire when the time comes. This means not buying a $40,000 Yukon when you make $40,001 per year. There is too much info on retirement planning and savings out there now for there to be an excuse to not do this. People like my mom, who is 57, did not have the kind of resources on investing and retirement planning that we do today, so I do not really criticize people from that generation. She read Dave Ramsey's books and paid off everything and is doing fine now, but it makes her sick to know that if she had known about investing at a younger age how much she could have now that she is retired. However, people from our generation have a responsibility to ensure that they will have a nest egg upon retirement, and if they do not tough shit. That's their fault, not mine, and I am sick of seeing exorbitant amounts of money taken from my paycheck for a socialist, soon to be bankrupt program.
The Libertarian Party also advocates SS reform in this manner, and I am glad that Bush has adopted something from the party's platform. SS reform has to happen, and hopefully Bush will use his political capital to do this.
EDIT: BTW, to answer your question Bob, private accounts are the way to go IMO. People need to assume more responsiblity for their financial health in the future, and this is the only way to do it.
Redneck
now here's one I like..you must be a very young man by brother,, Im 42 now and it makes a damn big difference to me, if all goes to hitlers plan,,I mean Bush,, I will get 7000.00 less per year,, uh,, why is that??
Beefy said:I've got to warn you, Bob. If you're not careful you're going to lose my uneducated ass really quick in a discussion about Social Security reform.
But I'll give it a try...From what I know about the proposed private account plan, I like that route. I really don't see it as the gov't's responsibility to save for my retirement. Like I said, I'm far from an expert in this field, but why are some people so upset about not having Social Security pension like our grand parents did? It's a different world we live in now. People should be more aware and pro-active in regards to their savings and retirement anyways.
now here's one I like..you must be a very young man by brother,, Im 42 now and it makes a damn big difference to me, if all goes to hitlers plan,,I mean Bush,, I will get 7000.00 less per year,, uh,, why is that??
Beefy
New Member
sc redneck said:
I'm 22. I don't understand the in's and out's of it, but at your age you've paid a hell of a lot of money into Social Security, assuming you've worked and paid taxes most of your adult life. For some one who's paid as much in as you probably have, you deserve something back. At least the total amount you paid in with 3.5% added on to it to cover inflation. But me on the other hand, I've not really paid that much since I've never really earned that much money (hopefully that will change as I age). I've never had the outlook that the gov't owed me a retirement plan.
My plan in life is to learn what I can about what the gov't does allow legally tax wise and who they do favors for and then try to become a part of that group so that I will benefit from their favoritism. It's kind of like "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". That's why I've started my own business (the gov't favors business owners), and incorporated it (the gov't taxes corporations very lightly compared to average people like you and me). That way I can "earn" as much as I need to pay my bills, while my company pays for my new car and all kinds of other shit as a tax right-off.
What numbers did you use to figure out you would get ~$600/mo less?sc redneck said:
For one, I'd like to see the top 20% of income earners pay at least the very same percentage in social security taxes as the bottom 80%Bob Smith said:
Then lets really make it fair and have the bottom 80% pay the same income tax rate as the top 20%?administrator said:
What bugs me about hte SS debate is how the government talks down to all of us like we're a bunch of 10th grade morons, and barring scredneck I think we've all graduated from high school.
They say that the American people are essentially too dum bto make a choice in this matter, that we dont have enough information, that we're all going to go broke because of this new plan. From what I understand about the proposed plan, it will allow people to invest in either the TSP (Thrift Savings Plan) that govt employees invest in, or a very similar plan with similar choices. If its good enough for govt employees and safe enough for them, why cant the rest of us be given the same choices? Every TSP fund has a positive record that would easily beat the rate of return on our SS contributions, including two that have averaged over 10% annual returns. I would be happier than a pig in slop if we got that one simple choice.
If you used the SS calculator put out by Sens Schumer and Reid, then your numbers will be grossly understated. I just looked at their calculator and it gave me some return that wouldnt even be considered in actual investing circles. Its a sham on their part to scare the less-informed people into believing that accounts can only generate rates of return of 2-3% (which is still better than the actual rate of return on SS contributions). A very conservative rate of return on a private account might be 5%, whereas someone a little less conservative might average 10-12% annual returns. Either way, the resulting income at retirement age will literally be thousands of dollars per month more than if we just collected the current SS payout. Based on my estimated SS income under the current system, I would receive roughly $15,000 per month LESS than if I had control over only 4% of the SS tax. And that is using relatively conservative numbers.sc redneck said:
Looking at the overall tax burden would be better IMO.Bob Smith said:
I wouldn't overestimate the intelligence of the general population. If you don't think the majority of people can make rational, educated decisions about a single, narrow topic like AAS, how do you suppose they can make rational, educated decisions about something infinitely more complex like the tax code or social security reform.Bob Smith said:
During the Presidential debates, John Kerry tried to score brownie points with "middle class america" by saying "..we in the Congress and Senate have excellent health coverage.....I think that all Americans should be entitled to the same exact healthcare that I have access to".
Now, does John Kerry also believe that "all Americans" should have access to TSP plans??? Kind of hypocritical don't you think.
As for my opinion....let me invest my money on my own. I can guarantee you that I get a better return that SS provides (or doesn't provide I should say).
Now, does John Kerry also believe that "all Americans" should have access to TSP plans??? Kind of hypocritical don't you think.
As for my opinion....let me invest my money on my own. I can guarantee you that I get a better return that SS provides (or doesn't provide I should say).
administrator said:
..many people may NOT be able to make educated decisions regardign thier financial future....but does that mean that those of us who CAN make an educated decision about our financial futures should be held hostage by the abyssmal SS system in place now???
Just because billybob joe greene ain't got no learning, doesn't mean I should have to pay into an account that I'll probably NEVER be able to draw upon; hence, making my financial well-being upon retirement a little more cloudy.
No, but you know as well as I do that you must rely on those people to make it happen. It won't be the first time educated people are held hostage by the democratic process.Kayz said:
It's not a question of whether you *should* be allowed to do it. This is a democracy. It's a question of whether voters think this should happen. That is my point.Kayz said:
it will never happen, even conservative republicans are against it. Most americans are NOT caple of managing such a plan, there is NO funding for the plan. It would make a small difference in any case. If you are that savvy you should be doing your own seperate retirement in any case since social security will never be great in any case. I really believe that the top income earners should be paying in, they can afford it in any case with no hardship and it would allow true reform of the system not just a political hack that tht presisdent proposes. You know, kinda like proposing a budget that does not include iraq or afghanistan, social security or other projects while cutting many worthwhile entitlements.
I just talked with a friend back from germany, the us dollar sucks against the euro, you know why? Because the president has run up record deficits and continues with no end in site while promising to make tax cuts for the wealthy permanent. hold on to your hats.
jb
I just talked with a friend back from germany, the us dollar sucks against the euro, you know why? Because the president has run up record deficits and continues with no end in site while promising to make tax cuts for the wealthy permanent. hold on to your hats.
jb
What is there to manage? From the proposal, they would have a choice of 5 or 6 different types of mutual funds. Or they could choose to stay in the current, broken, system. Their choice.jboldman said:
BTW, those mutual funds are the same exact ones that current govt employees can contribute to. Every single on of them has at least a 5% compounded annual return over the past 10 years, with 3 or 4 of them returning 7-12% annually. That is a whole lot better than the actual negative rate of return on social security contributions. I dont see where this has a downside.
See for yourself. http://tsp.gov/rates/monthly-history.html
It would make a HUGE difference to young people, or anyone that has more than say 20 years till retirement.
