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Science and faith.
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And there is more to it than simply being in a bio textbook, regardless of the level of study.Kayz said:
How about an article from the NY Times? http://www.arn.org/docs/wedge/mh_wedge_020630b.htm
Oh I agree with you....but please don't make me read the NY Times. 
But like that article states, Dr. Wells brings religion into his scientific studies...so his opinions are often contradicted from the get go in that his area of expertise (science) is clouded by his religious beliefs....it's kind of like oil and water.
The fact is this:
evolution scientists can make a compelling argument FOR their case, and creationists can make a compelling argument AGAINST that same case; but have you ever seen a compelling argument FOR creation??? I can't say that I have.
But like that article states, Dr. Wells brings religion into his scientific studies...so his opinions are often contradicted from the get go in that his area of expertise (science) is clouded by his religious beliefs....it's kind of like oil and water.The fact is this:
evolution scientists can make a compelling argument FOR their case, and creationists can make a compelling argument AGAINST that same case; but have you ever seen a compelling argument FOR creation??? I can't say that I have.
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And all paid for by the American Negro College Fund, no less.Kayz said:..now if that happened, you'd have an MBA from Harvard business school and would be the CEO of Microsoft by now.
goldstone_77
New Member
Oh, I get it this thread is intended to disprove evolution. Well, it's true not all of us evolved! Hence this thread was started! Anyway, Ive got direct evidence of spontaneous evolution! And this is what gets all the little religion peddlers!
Example: Africans and only those of that ethnicity have sickle cell anemia. Okay, this is a genetic mutation on the cellular level! The anemia comes from where both the mother and father pass on the dominant gene that causes the red blood cells to sickle. Now, if the offspring only receives 1 gene that causes sick ling of the red blood cells, and one normal. They have a natural resistance to malaria. And sickle cell anemia is less common in Africans that do not live in areas of high concentrations of malaria.
Studies have shown that African Americans, who have lived in malaria-free areas for as long as ten generations, have lower sickle cell gene frequencies than Africans -- and the frequencies have dropped more than those of other, less harmful African genes. Similarly, the sickle cell gene is less common among blacks in Curacao, a malaria-free island in the Caribbean, than in Surinam, a neighboring country where malaria is rampant -- even though the ancestors of both populations came from the same region of Africa.
http://www.innvista.com/health/ailments/anemias/sickhist.htm
If that isnt direct proof of spontaneous evolution I dont know what is. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Example: Africans and only those of that ethnicity have sickle cell anemia. Okay, this is a genetic mutation on the cellular level! The anemia comes from where both the mother and father pass on the dominant gene that causes the red blood cells to sickle. Now, if the offspring only receives 1 gene that causes sick ling of the red blood cells, and one normal. They have a natural resistance to malaria. And sickle cell anemia is less common in Africans that do not live in areas of high concentrations of malaria.
Studies have shown that African Americans, who have lived in malaria-free areas for as long as ten generations, have lower sickle cell gene frequencies than Africans -- and the frequencies have dropped more than those of other, less harmful African genes. Similarly, the sickle cell gene is less common among blacks in Curacao, a malaria-free island in the Caribbean, than in Surinam, a neighboring country where malaria is rampant -- even though the ancestors of both populations came from the same region of Africa.
http://www.innvista.com/health/ailments/anemias/sickhist.htm
If that isnt direct proof of spontaneous evolution I dont know what is. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Kayz said:
goldstone_77 said:
African's are not the only ones affected by SCA. Any individual who can trace their roots back to Mediterranean area, South and Central America, the Middle East, India, and the Caribbean can be affected by SCA. Whites can now be affected by it as well due to all the biracial breeding going on nowadays. Are you sure that SCA is a dominant gene?? Nearly every genetic ailment is the result of both parents passing on the recessive allele, producing a heterozygous recessive offspring, which will display the sickled cell red blood cells.
Other than that, I'll have to read your post in more detail tomorrow and get back with you.....I'm too tired to mess with it right now.
Ill read the article tomorrow, but otherwise I dont think what you said is much of anything. So some enthic groups have higher tendencies towards certain diseases. So what?goldstone_77 said:
Kayz, check out www.answersingenesis.com for some interesting articles from a creation standpoint. Like evolutionists, they attempt to use science to support their side of the arguement.
Its been fun, boys, but Im off to bed. We can pick it back up tomorrow.
goldstone_77
New Member
Sickle cell anemia originated amongst the sub-Saharan Black African population. And the sickle trait is recessive.
Night everyone
Night everyone
smoking sickle cell anemia
Okay, let's smoke it.
you said:
Africans and only those of that ethnicity have sickle cell anemia. Okay, this is a genetic mutation on the cellular level!
reply:
Err... well, from a creationistic model, it merely means the gene pool contains many possible combinations, one of them leading to a NEGATIVE result.
The creationistic model better fits the evidence, as negative mutation would be the natural result, following the law of entropy, things going from order, to disorder, from superior organization to lessor (assuming getting a disease and dying from it is a negative thing compared to living a long life).
Negative mutation is a part of the creationistic model. What pro evolutionists must do is demonstrate a positive mutation (not a mendelian genetic construct).
Okay, let's smoke it.
you said:
Africans and only those of that ethnicity have sickle cell anemia. Okay, this is a genetic mutation on the cellular level!
reply:
Err... well, from a creationistic model, it merely means the gene pool contains many possible combinations, one of them leading to a NEGATIVE result.
The creationistic model better fits the evidence, as negative mutation would be the natural result, following the law of entropy, things going from order, to disorder, from superior organization to lessor (assuming getting a disease and dying from it is a negative thing compared to living a long life).
Negative mutation is a part of the creationistic model. What pro evolutionists must do is demonstrate a positive mutation (not a mendelian genetic construct).
goldstone_77 said:
Gavin Laird
New Member
Guys guys guys...
You're not evolving. God didn't make you. Your just a host for DNA.
(Lobs spanner, runs away)
G.
You're not evolving. God didn't make you. Your just a host for DNA.
(Lobs spanner, runs away)
G.
Beefy
New Member
goldstone_77 said:
You didn't get those definitions from a book , did you? Cause if religion comes from books, and we can't trust religion, then what makes you trust a book full of supposed definitons ? How do you know that those are really definitions of science? What makes Webster's word better than Matthew's?
goldstone_77 said:
Actually, monotheism pre-dates Greco-Roman polytheism. The God of the ancient Hebrews (the Same God that modern Judeo-Christianity worships) has been worshipped for over 3,000 years of recorded human history.
Grizzly
New Member
No, polytheism predates monotheism. For one, I'm pretty sure Greco-Roman society is also older than 3k years, but that's not my point. There were the Sumerians, Babylonians, indigineous American people, etc. Older'n' da hebe jebes.
The reason Webster's word has more "pull" in this instance is because it is Man's words being used to define Man's word. In the case of Matthew's words, they are Man's words being used to define God's words.
One is more authoritative on the subject than the other.
The reason Webster's word has more "pull" in this instance is because it is Man's words being used to define Man's word. In the case of Matthew's words, they are Man's words being used to define God's words.
One is more authoritative on the subject than the other.
goldstone_77
New Member
Recombinant DNA, genes found in bacteria to resist penicillin? Man you people, Education shall set you free! You can find evolution in bacteria the easiest of all things. It is so small and produces in the billions over night, and that you will see it evolve fairly quickly. Man, and many other animals and plants, usually take millions of years to evolve significantly, because it takes millions of years to produce in the billions. Thus we create technology in order to defeat our own physical limitations. Example: Cars, Jets, and spaceships. Come on people, if you live in the dark you will be blinded by the light.... All in all, I can't blame you for not wanting to believe in the truth when you have been taught to believe in a lie all your life. Who would want anyone to tell them that they have been living a lie all there life? There is no heaven when you die? No salvation, but the one you make for yourself? I could see why anyone would resist. Shoot, instead of God, you would have to rely on yourself? But man is too weak for that! Man needs to feel good about him self. Look at where Christianity started? Do you ever wonder why it never caught on where is started? Israel? More Jews live there than Christians, not to mention Muslims. Why didnt the masses all fall to there knees in the presence of Jesus? Oh wait; they killed him for being a heretic didnt they? And God being the all knowing all-powerful being that he is, couldnt find a better place to be on the day he was to be executed? Sorry, I love the stories, but Im not buying the whole man in the sky deal. Then why use a book? I take it you were all born knowing the word of good, why even use a bible you already know it all anyway, right? How come there are so many different spin offs of Christianity? Cant any of you agree on what is written? Let see the bible was inspired by God, but written by man. And it was a collection of works from many different authors that the Catholic Church decided what went into the bible and what was left out. And knowing man has free will, and churches made the first colleges in the world. You still believe in the man in the sky. Hey, maybe Im the only one seeing the flaws in this organization.
Bob Smith said:
goldstone_77
New Member
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Gavin Laird said:
goldstone_77
New Member
Neodavid said:
The redundancy is appalling in here, but if I must. Look at what I said above. If they only had 1 allele then is would be a positive mutation!
abnormal hemoglobin Hemoglobin molecule with a different shape due to an altered amino acid sequence (ultimately caused by an altered DNA base sequence), such as in the inherited disease sickle-cell anemia.
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookglossA.html
Lets see some articles that prove, or strongly support the idea that the bacteria actually evolved. "Evolved" as in became something other than bacteria.goldstone_77 said:
goldstone_77
New Member
Bob Bob Bob... I can tell you don't know much about biology... Let me walk away from the bacteria since I'm not getting through to you with that! You won't be satisfied till you see bacterium grown into an elephant. ROTFLMAO! Let me point out some of your Gods creatures that might turn on a light. How about The duck billed platypus? Gods idea of a joke, not evolution right? And what do you all think about the dinosaurs?
The platypus, Ornithorhynchus anatinus is one of the most unusual of living creatures. It is a mammal which has fur and suckles its young, but it also lays eggs, has webbed feet, a bill that looks like that of a duck, and a tail resembling that of a beaver. Males have a poisonous spur on their hind legs which can cause excruciating pain to humans and kill dogs. The platypus and three species of echidna (also known as spiny anteaters) are the only living members of a group of animals called monotremes.
The platypus, Ornithorhynchus anatinus is one of the most unusual of living creatures. It is a mammal which has fur and suckles its young, but it also lays eggs, has webbed feet, a bill that looks like that of a duck, and a tail resembling that of a beaver. Males have a poisonous spur on their hind legs which can cause excruciating pain to humans and kill dogs. The platypus and three species of echidna (also known as spiny anteaters) are the only living members of a group of animals called monotremes.
Bob Smith said:
