Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

[Hughinn]

Regardless of the US and europe promoting NATO my counter argument is simply this: it is the right of any FREE and democratic country to choose its own destiny. So while the USA can entice a country to join NATO it is ultimately the choice of the country to do so. USA cannot force a country to join NATO, if ukraine wants to join NATO it is Ukraines choice to do so. The russians dont want Ukraine to join NATO, but rather than respect the right of ukraine to make such a choice they are instead trying to force their will upon it.

This shouldnt come as a surprise because Putin is a dictator and the entire concept of being a dictator is that you force your will upon others, you dictate their choices, therefore they have no choices of their own and consequently no rights either.

To analogize this its like im NATO and i say to you “come to my party, ill give you free beer if you show up!” And then Russia is like “your not going to that party, i forbid it, and if you even try im gonna break your fucking legs and your grounded for life”.

Russia has their own version of NATO, i forget what they call it, but nobody wants to join it. To analogize again, im NATO and if you come to my party ill give you free beer and hot chicks, whereas Russia says if you goto their party youll get a bag of turnips and potatoes. Well shit, i think we know whose throwing the better party, so what party are you going to go to?

Then Russia gets butthurt because nobody but Belarus shows up at their party and its just two bitter angry guys pissed off cause they dont know how to throw a good party that anybody wants to goto. Is that my fault as NATO that i throw a way better party that people actually want to goto?

You have a good point.

Therefore, the united states, Britain and Ukrain should not have made any deals with Russia.

Especially knowing full well that Russia would expect them to honor the deals.

As much as I agree with what you're saying, as the old proverb goes, "you make a deal with the devil, you gotta give the devil his due".

Otherwise this mess happens

 

[hijoshiki]

I read a lot of information since the collapse of the USSR. How the situation of the conflict between Russia and NATO developed. And in fact, the United States probably did everything to escalate and aggravate the conflict as much as possible. Yes, and in fact in every possible way provoked what is happening in Ukraine. It seems to me that this could well have been avoided if the goal was peace and balance.
But in fact they woke up the Russian bear. But I do not justify the methods of Russia, but it is understandable what they are doing now.
THIS is just an opinion.

If you've ever had the experience of dealing with a dude that is in control and he forces his way on you even when it is clearly wrong or even dangerous for you or others, it's miserable. It's clear that we as a society need to have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to tolerating tyrants big and small.

We've got to get away from putting power in the hands of one. A philosophy needs to be embraced where leadership is handed over to those with competence, but there also has to be equal power given to committees that can call out problems before they manifest and those need to be able to override in every situation those of the leader if they can make their case.

I'm not sure you can find an objective justification for the right of one man to rule other(s). Why we respect one man over many is beyond me. I think it must be a form of cowardice and laziness on all our parts when we find our self in a weaker position and tolerate the dictates of what is basically an asshole.

 

[Albozz]

Share actual evidence supporting your claim.

Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JesterBOB]

If you've ever had the experience of dealing with a dude that is in control and he forces his way on you even when it is clearly wrong or even dangerous for you or others, it's miserable. It's clear that we as a society need to have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to tolerating tyrants big and small.

We've got to get away from putting power in the hands of one. A philosophy needs to be embraced where leadership is handed over to those with competence, but there also has to be equal power given to committees that can call out problems before they manifest and those need to be able to override in every situation those of the leader if they can make their case.

I'm not sure you can find an objective justification for the right of one man to rule other(s). Why we respect one man over many is beyond me. I think it must be a form of cowardice and laziness on all our parts when we find our self in a weaker position and tolerate the dictates of what is basically an asshole.

I think it is based on the fear of losing what people have to go and say openly that they are against such management methods.
Of course, in theory, everything is against absolute power, against dictatorship and when the power of only one person. But in order to begin to oppose this, a strong social shock is needed. As history shows, in order for a revolution or a strong popular indignation to happen, a very large event must happen or a leader will appear that affects the minds of the doubters and people will follow him.

 

[JesterBOB]

You have a good point.

Therefore, the united states, Britain and Ukrain should not have made any deals with Russia.

Especially knowing full well that Russia would expect them to honor the deals.

As much as I agree with what you're saying, as the old proverb goes, "you make a deal with the devil, you gotta give the devil his due".

Otherwise this mess happens

Here the question is who is the greater devil, who is fighting now and killing, or the devil who for a long time and consistently created the situation for the Siberian bear to move from hibernation to action. In world geopolitics, everything is very relative and sometimes what lies on the surface and the one who is evil is only a victim of the manipulation and strategy of others.

 

[hijoshiki]

With us pushing weapons into Ukraine it's going exactly according to plan with a mass extermination of a people that don't see themselves becoming pawns in a game.

Even Americans if invaded by another country I'm not convinced the country would be united. There's lots of forums where people flat out state that they would use the cover of war to attack the elites and well off of America as they are considered the true enemy of Americans. Let that sink in if you think we're not close to a civil war in this country if the conditions were met for an invasion.

You use to never see people talk like this, it was always fight and die for your country and now it's "I can't wait to go over the rich side of town and start in with the massacre", like a Purge movie.

 

[Hughinn]

With us pushing weapons into Ukraine it's going exactly according to plan with a mass extermination of a people that don't see themselves becoming pawns in a game.

Even Americans if invaded by another country I'm not convinced the country would be united. There's lots of forums where people flat out state that they would use the cover of war to attack the elites and well off of America as they are considered the true enemy of Americans. Let that sink in if you think we're not close to a civil war in this country if the conditions were met for an invasion.

You use to never see people talk like this, it was always fight and die for your country and now it's "I can't wait to go over the rich side of town and start in with the massacre", like a Purge movie.

I'm a Louisianaian.

I remember hurricane Katrina.

If you put any population under duress, you'll see it split apart accordingly.

Which of course is the plan. Because the people who will orchestrate this, will be long gone by the time the chaos starts

 

[Megadick3000]

Just a few vids of civilians getting killed

Father killed infront of his son

Old couple killed while fleeing

For the second theres security footage of the attackers, targeted for no reason, basically just killed for sport? Toolazy to retrieve the vid

Shelling kills random civilians

In the third guy is talking aboit shelling killing people, then speaking of the devil a sudden artillery shell impacts just feet from him, somehow he survives but some others nearby are not so lucky

 

[Megadick3000]

Ah heres the security footage of the old couple from the second video getting targeted for no reason

Old couple targeted

 

[hijoshiki]

Just a few vids of civilians getting killed

Father killed infront of his son

Old couple killed while fleeing

For the second theres security footage of the attackers, targeted for no reason, basically just killed for sport? Toolazy to retrieve the vid

Shelling kills random civilians

In the third guy is talking aboit shelling killing people, then speaking of the devil a sudden artillery shell impacts just feet from him, somehow he survives but some others nearby are not so lucky

War does no one any good. It's better to cease fire, put down your guns and be patient. Don't force a war. Don't force change. This isn't a game, one wrong move and your dead. If Russia takes the gloves off you'll have a genocide on your hands and the same sorry thing happens all over with more of our European people dead.

All things pass eventually, there will be a time when Putin is dealt with. This man is gonna get his when he least expects it as he's gone past the point of no return.

Like I mentioned before I'm sure a team of assassins could take Putin out for $1 or 2 billion which would be dirt cheap at this point.

 

[HDH]

Just a few vids of civilians getting killed

Father killed infront of his son

Old couple killed while fleeing

For the second theres security footage of the attackers, targeted for no reason, basically just killed for sport? Toolazy to retrieve the vid

Shelling kills random civilians

In the third guy is talking aboit shelling killing people, then speaking of the devil a sudden artillery shell impacts just feet from him, somehow he survives but some others nearby are not so lucky

I agree, sad videos but I've seen more fake videos and made up news than real vids over the last couple years. I have a tough time believing any side.

The videos don't really tell anything. Any narrative can be made out of them. They could be from 4 years ago. They have already been caught using old stuff.

Truth is, till the smoke clears, we are all just kinda guessing.

Not looking for an argument. I'd rather say my peace and be on my way

 

[Megadick3000]

I agree, sad videos but I've seen more fake videos and made up news than real vids over the last couple years. I have a tough time believing any side.

The videos don't really tell anything. Any narrative can be made out of them. They could be from 4 years ago. They have already been caught using old stuff.

Truth is, till the smoke clears, we are all just kinda guessing.

Not looking for an argument. I'd rather say my peace and be on my way

I agree, its tough to know whats real and the narratives can be twisted however they want. Power of propaganda.

Sadly the vids mentioned seem pretty legit. Only the tip of the iceberg of whats going on.

 

[hijoshiki]

Of course there's lots of propaganda and fake videos from Ukraine.

Here's just one of many fakes:
Ukraine Body bag propaganda fails as the actors just won't stay... chill

The important point is not to get involved in this conflict.

And of course we have seen the bottom 80% of the United States lose $3.6 trillion in wealth because of this Covid BS and the top 1% gain 500 billion in wealth during that same time.

This is all apart of the great Reset Globalist agenda.

That said I don't want the average poor schmuck dying and I always think it's better to get rid of those in positions of power like globalists, oligarchs and basically the elites running the show and leave the average person alone to live their lives in peace.

 

[jose1984]

View attachment 161162

You explained perfectly with this picture

What would the United States do if Russia were making a military bloc of anti-American countries in South America?

We already saw it in the years 50-60-70-80-90 with the coups that they carried out in South American countries that were not related to them, now there is only Cuba, Venezuela and little else left, and they always try to destabilize them and fill them with sanctions, they strangle you with economic sanctions and then they say look how badly your citizens live

 

[hijoshiki]

You explained perfectly with this picture

What would the United States do if Russia were making a military bloc of anti-American countries in South America?

We already saw it in the years 50-60-70-80-90 with the coups that they carried out in South American countries that were not related to them, now there is only Cuba, Venezuela and little else left, and they always try to destabilize them and fill them with sanctions, they strangle you with economic sanctions and then they say look how badly your citizens live

Make no mistake we have men that go into countries and sabotage the economy and install puppets for the US. We have assassins, economic hit men that play grand master level chess and can plan 50 moves ahead of everyone else so others never see it coming.

For some odd reason we in the US have this silly idea that we're the bastions of freedom and we set the standard for everyone else to follow. We do this by digging up old ghosts, boogie men in the past that did horrible things and we bring this up over and over and over until the propaganda seeps deep into the psyche, so everyone thinks there's another boogie man out to get us or someone we value and we have to do everything in our power to go balls out whenever there's a global problem.

We have a nasty problem with sticking our nose into everything that goes on in the world. I think it's a character flaw baked into the US citizens where you go around telling everyone how they should act, how they should be, what they should be. We simply can't leave people alone, we always have to fuck with everyone that is the least bit different.

This idea of FREEDOM is a silly concept at this point. We are a police state, the word freedom won't even get you a free cup of coffee let alone universal healthcare. WTF is this concept of freedom they keep talking about, every time I see someone daring to be free this country either kills or locks them in a cage of decades.

 

[Hughinn]

You explained perfectly with this picture

What would the United States do if Russia were making a military bloc of anti-American countries in South America?

We already saw it in the years 50-60-70-80-90 with the coups that they carried out in South American countries that were not related to them, now there is only Cuba, Venezuela and little else left, and they always try to destabilize them and fill them with sanctions, they strangle you with economic sanctions and then they say look how badly your citizens live

Thank you for getting the point.

@malfeasance missed it.

 

[malfeasance]

Thank you for getting the point.

@malfeasance missed it.

I did not miss it at all. I understood your point. It overlooks reality. You are both missing the history of why NATO exists and why other countries want to join it even today.

 

[jose1984]

I did not miss it at all. I understood your point. It overlooks reality. You are both missing the history of why NATO exists and why other countries want to join it even today.

NATO exists with lies and pressure on countries to join, saying that russia and china are a threat, and in reality they are the threat to countries that do not serve their interests

 

[hijoshiki]

The problem with NATO isn't that it would be nice to see a unified EUROPE. It would be a great thing.

NATO has expectation once you join, you're expected to have a certain amount of military readiness at all times and that's expensive for a Europe that prefers to spend money on the people in the form of healthcare and education.

Here in the states we don't get healthcare and education, we get massive military and quite frankly many of us are kind of getting pissed off that Europe is fucking around when it comes to defense and instead enjoying a high standard of living while here in America we're told about the American dream that you can live only when you're in deep REM sleep or perhaps when you're dead and fly off to heaven.

One thing has convinced me about this Russian thing.

I'll admit our American military is badass. Make no mistake I've seen Russia and they suck compared to us. Not wanting to insult them, but I'm convinced our military due to the fact that we've fought endless wars has put us at the top. We might not have healthcare, we might have a million homeless out in the streets, our education might be one of the worst in the developed world, but when it comes to tearing stuff up and killing people, I'm now convinced we're second to none.

 

[Zerg]

So much for US funded bio weapons labs in Ukraine being fake new russian propaganda. We are so screwed.