Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

[Hightower]

We'll, I can agree that Putin is something like a dictator.
And I believe he's a ruthless dude. Because if you know anything about what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union and the massive looting of the state by the West, especially the US, then you'd know that for a guy to wrestle control of the country from the gangsters that ran it, had to be a guy that could instill fear into people.

I've researched this subject extensively and I've read several books on the subject.

Yes, Russia is a problematic backwater geopolitical rival. But Russia is not the Soviet Union.

Yes, Putin is a rough individual. But he's not Satan.

Russia is a nation state with it's own interests and concerns. Security of course being one of them. I respect that, but I'm an American.

And I want my own leadership to stop stirring up shit all over the world and I don't care if liberals don't like Putin. I want my leadership to do whatever they can to bring an end to this and stop the ridiculous posturing and escalation.

I don't care about who runs Ukraine and I don't want my leadership spending billions of our money so they can launch coups to decide who gets to be in charge in Ukraine, all so they can have a personal piggy banks and their crackhead , degenerate children can accept bribes in their behalf. And gain a foreward operations base in their long game war against Russia.

I see no reason for my leadership to provoke Russia, nor meddle in everyone else's affairs while our country goes to shit

Enough of it already.

There is not one single legitimate national security concern in this entire mess for the United States of America.

We should butt the fuck out and let Russia and Europe figure out how their going to trade energy and develop relationships. Time to stop playing masters of the universe

That's right, it's time to stop meddling in the affairs of Europe and Russia and stop pouring huge amounts of money into wars and arranging a revolution, with pseudo-motivation - we are bringing democracy to backward countries. It's time to stop teaching others how to live. And they will be engaged in the development of their country and so that citizens live better.

 

[Hughinn]

Lol I get that you have a non-interventionist view on foreign policy, but the the mistake you're making is framing foreign policy as a partisan thing when it's a bipartisan thing. I don't know how old you are but I'm in my 40s and as long as I can remember the opposition party has been crying about our aid and interventions in other countries and it sounds good for votes but then they only expand it themselves when they get in power.

So, I mean, to say the democrats are responsible for 30+ years of foreign intervention is to forget the times when Democrats have been screaming bloody murder over the Republican's interventions: Iran-Contra, Panama, Iraq, Israel/Palestine, etc.

In Syria Obama was actually pressured to aid favorable separatist groups and he declined, and then ISIS came out on top, and we had to fight a war to get rid of them because Obama did what you wanted him to do. And John McCain was as big a Putin critic as anybody.

So what you're doing is getting caught up in the moment of criticizing the current party in power without realizing it doesn't matter what party is in power. In the case of Russia vs Ukraine the US and NATO comes out on top here no matter how it plays out. So this is actually been one to the interventions you should be criticizing least, if you're an American. And now we don't have to worry about an anti-West dictator being one of our rivals.

LMFAO

Obviously you don't know shit about what went down in Syria as a result of Obama's globalist intervention policy.

Obama literally allied us with Al Qaeda for example and funded some of these terrorists.

Your a useful f-n idiot because interventionism has caused far more problems than it ever solved.

You know it wouldn't hurt you people to read a book once in awhile. Something.. anything other than the party line propoganda you parrot so unoriginally

Try this

Enough Already: Time to End the War on Terrorism

Enough Time to End the War on Terrorism is a masterly …

www.goodreads.com

 

[hometeam]

I wouldn't be so sure about it. Russia has been and will be dangerous, possessing large natural resources, high technologies. Or does the history of wars tell you nothing?

A lot of people don't realize more oil is pumped out of US soil than any other country, including Saudi Arabia. It's been that way since 2018 because of the deep ocean drilling and fracking going on. It's expensive to do this so the oil drillers cut back until prices go up.

In 2020 Russia had a GDP of $1.48 trillion and the US $20.94 trillion. Even in the peak days of the Soviet Union their economy was much smaller. They'd inflate their numbers publicly but we now know it was about a third of ours in their best days. The problem is they spent a much higher fraction of it on their military, still do. And their values are in conflict with ours.

And that's the history that should be teaching you something - if given the chance they will pump as much as they can into their military and start threatening NATO and their neighbors, as long as they have a dictator who is backwards thinking and antagonistic towards the West anyway. So we can't have them being a military rival.

 

[Hughinn]

A lot of people don't realize more oil is pumped out of US soil than any other country, including Saudi Arabia. It's been that way since 2018 because of the deep ocean drilling and fracking going on. It's expensive to do this so the oil drillers cut back until prices go up.

In 2020 Russia had a GDP of $1.48 trillion and the US $20.94 trillion. Even in the peak days of the Soviet Union their economy was much smaller. They'd inflate their numbers publicly but we now know it was about a third of ours in their best days. The problem is they spent a much higher fraction of it on their military, still do. And their values are in conflict with ours.

And that's the history that should be teaching you something - if given the chance they will pump as much as they can into their military and start threatening NATO and their neighbors, as long as they have a dictator who is backwards thinking and antagonistic towards the West anyway. So we can't have them being a military rival.

Again parroting party line bullshit.

Read a book

Enough Already: Time to End the War on Terrorism

Enough Time to End the War on Terrorism is a masterly …

www.goodreads.com

The US government will not remain the world's dominant military forever.

Your bullshit talking point that "we can't let other people have guns too, because they'll think they're in charge and not do what we tell them" has no fuckin place in a free Republic and would be better suited to something like the former Soviet state than here.

Fighting wars and agitating conflict all over the world just to remain relevant is a strategy damn certain come back and bite you in the ass. Just like it did on 9/11

Just like denying others the the same means and respect for national security you demand for yourself

Those policies are not in line with representative Republic of supposedly free people. It's that of an authoritarian regime with design's for empire.

The exact same thing you're accusing Putin and Russia of, is exactly what your cheering and condoning your side for doing

 

[hometeam]

Again parroting party line bullshit.

Read a book

Enough Already: Time to End the War on Terrorism

Enough Time to End the War on Terrorism is a masterly …

www.goodreads.com

The US government will not remain the world's dominant military forever.

This is actually bipartisan here. Both the Dems and Reps believe this, as well as pretty much every other country in the world.

McCain said President Obama has “been incredibly naïve” about Putin’s goals. “Putin wants to restore the Russian empire, that’s his ambition, he’s stated it many times. Therefore no one should be surprised,” McCain said. “I predicted it and I’m not a genius. But I know Putin.”

Senator John McCain: “We Are All Ukrainians”

In an interview with TIME, the Arizona Senator said Obama is “naïve” about Putin’s ambitions “to restore the Russian empire.” McCain says he wants to see the Obama Administration move a short-term economic aid package for Ukraine as quickly as possible

time.com

“The world is better served if somebody stands up to dictatorships like we have in Russia and China.” -Mitch McConnell

On NATO, McConnell nudges GOP away from Trump-era approach

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell played a pivotal role in the Senate ratifying NATO membership for Sweden and Finland.

apnews.com

"The only way this ends is for somebody in Russia to take this guy out. You would be doing your country - and the world - a great service," -Lindsey Graham

Sen. Lindsey Graham's apparent call for Putin to be assassinated draws backlash

"The only way this ends is for somebody in Russia to take this guy out," the South Carolina Republican said. Democrats and Republicans denounced the suggestion.

www.npr.org

“I have clear eyes on this. I’m not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin,” “A geopolitical foe they obviously were and continue to be, because Russia continues to fight us in every venue they have. They support the world’s worst actors,” -Mitt Romney

Romney: 10 years later, Russia remains ‘geopolitical foe’

The former GOP presidential candidate says his widely mocked views from 2012 are more relevant than ever.

www.politico.com

“In [Putin’s] view the demise of the Soviet Union is bad for the Russian people, so we’re watching him try to reinstate Soviet hegemony,” said Bush. “He picks weak people to do that. He thought Ukraine was weak, but it’s not. Ukraine is showing a backbone and a spine that this world sorely needs to see.” - George W Bush

George W. Bush dishes on Putin in Chicago

www.politico.com

So, what your book is not telling you is of course the opposition party is going to criticize a sitting President and blame him for everything going on everywhere. But this view on Russia/Putin has never been a one-sided party line.

 

[Hughinn]

This is actually bipartisan here. Both the Dems and Reps believe this, as well as pretty much every other country in the world.

McCain said President Obama has “been incredibly naïve” about Putin’s goals. “Putin wants to restore the Russian empire, that’s his ambition, he’s stated it many times. Therefore no one should be surprised,” McCain said. “I predicted it and I’m not a genius. But I know Putin.”

Senator John McCain: “We Are All Ukrainians”

In an interview with TIME, the Arizona Senator said Obama is “naïve” about Putin’s ambitions “to restore the Russian empire.” McCain says he wants to see the Obama Administration move a short-term economic aid package for Ukraine as quickly as possible

time.com

“The world is better served if somebody stands up to dictatorships like we have in Russia and China.” -Mitch McConnell

On NATO, McConnell nudges GOP away from Trump-era approach

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell played a pivotal role in the Senate ratifying NATO membership for Sweden and Finland.

apnews.com

"The only way this ends is for somebody in Russia to take this guy out. You would be doing your country - and the world - a great service," -Lindsey Graham

Sen. Lindsey Graham's apparent call for Putin to be assassinated draws backlash

"The only way this ends is for somebody in Russia to take this guy out," the South Carolina Republican said. Democrats and Republicans denounced the suggestion.

www.npr.org

“I have clear eyes on this. I’m not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin,” “A geopolitical foe they obviously were and continue to be, because Russia continues to fight us in every venue they have. They support the world’s worst actors,” -Mitt Romney

Romney: 10 years later, Russia remains ‘geopolitical foe’

The former GOP presidential candidate says his widely mocked views from 2012 are more relevant than ever.

www.politico.com

“In [Putin’s] view the demise of the Soviet Union is bad for the Russian people, so we’re watching him try to reinstate Soviet hegemony,” said Bush. “He picks weak people to do that. He thought Ukraine was weak, but it’s not. Ukraine is showing a backbone and a spine that this world sorely needs to see.” - George W Bush

George W. Bush dishes on Putin in Chicago

www.politico.com

So, what your book is not telling you is of course the opposition party is going to criticize a sitting President and blame him for everything going on everywhere. But this view on Russia/Putin has never been a one-sided party line.

McCain, Romney, Graham, McConnell and Bush are not opposition parties to the status quo. They're part of it

They're establishment politicians of Mafia on the Potomac.

None of that changes my points of you parroting party line bullshit. Call it the DC establishment party if you want.

It doesn't change anything

And obviously you've not read the book because the author is clear about the establishment and it's motives.

Everyone knows what you think is a secret. No Trump supporter thinks that if the election had been Tulsi gabbard vs mitt Romney that the establishment wouldn't have simply switched sides and we be wondering how mutt Romney got 81 million ballots cast for him

 

[hometeam]

McCain, Romney, Graham, McConnell and Bush are not opposition parties.

They're establishment politicians of Mafia on the Potomac.

None of that changes my points of you parroting party line bullshit. Call it the DC establishment party if you want.

It doesn't change anything

Well I think Trump is the only exception here being friendly to Putin and a lot of people think Putin had him compromised. According to the Steele Dossier:

• ... that "Russian authorities" had cultivated Trump "for at least 5 years", and that the operation was "supported and directed" by Putin.(Report 80)
• ... that the Russian government's support for Trump was originally conducted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, then by the Federal Security Service (FSB), and was eventually directly handled by the Russian presidency because of its "growing significance over time". (Report 130)
• ... that a major goal of the Russians in supporting Trump was "to upset the liberal international status quo, including on Ukraine-related sanctions, which was seriously disadvantaging the country". (Report 130)
• ... that Trump was vulnerable to blackmail from Russian authorities for paying bribes and engaging in unorthodox and embarrassing sexual behavior over the years, and that the authorities were "able to blackmail him if they so wished". (Reports 80, 95, 97, 113)
• ... that in return for Russia's leaking the stolen documents to WikiLeaks, "the TRUMP team had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a campaign issue and to raise US/NATO defense commitments in the Baltics and Eastern Europe to deflect attention away from Ukraine, a priority for PUTIN who needed to cauterise the subject." (Report 95)

Steele dossier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure why you would talk about "parroting party lines' when clearly I'm not, then go on to make it a Trump vs the establishment thing.

Not to mention his own Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called him a "moron":

Tillerson's fury at Trump required an intervention from VP Pence

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson intended to quit this past summer amid clashes with the White House. He didn't, and the feuds have not abated.

www.nbcnews.com

His own Defense Secretary Jim Mattis also said Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader,”:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...7a389e-ac60-11e8-a8d7-0f63ab8b1370_story.html

 

[Hughinn]

Well I think Trump is the only exception here being friendly to Putin and a lot of people think Putin had him compromised. According to the Steele Dossier:

• ... that "Russian authorities" had cultivated Trump "for at least 5 years", and that the operation was "supported and directed" by Putin.[72][189] (Report 80)
• ... that the Russian government's support for Trump was originally conducted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, then by the Federal Security Service (FSB), and was eventually directly handled by the Russian presidency because of its "growing significance over time".[190][23] (Report 130)
• ... that a major goal of the Russians in supporting Trump was "to upset the liberal international status quo, including on Ukraine-related sanctions, which was seriously disadvantaging the country".[190][195] (Report 130)
• ... that Trump was vulnerable to blackmail from Russian authorities[74][190] for paying bribes and engaging in unorthodox and embarrassing sexual behavior over the years,[127][199][202] and that the authorities were "able to blackmail him if they so wished".[127][199][202][203] (Reports 80, 95, 97, 113)
• ... that in return for Russia's leaking the stolen documents to WikiLeaks, "the TRUMP team had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a campaign issue and to raise US/NATO defense commitments in the Baltics and Eastern Europe to deflect attention away from Ukraine, a priority for PUTIN who needed to cauterise the subject."[206][213] (Report 95)

Steele dossier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure why you would talk about "parroting party lines' when clearly I'm not, then go on to make it a Trump vs the establishment thing.

Not to mention his own Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called him a "moron":

Tillerson's fury at Trump required an intervention from VP Pence

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson intended to quit this past summer amid clashes with the White House. He didn't, and the feuds have not abated.

www.nbcnews.com

His own Defense Secretary Jim Mattis also said Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader,”:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bob-woodwards-new-book-reveals-a-nervous-breakdown-of-trumps-presidency/2018/09/04/b27a389e-ac60-11e8-a8d7-0f63ab8b1370_story.html?utm_term=.761ac7c36543

What's your point? A bunch of irrelevant bullshit?

"Trump compromised by Putin" horseshit?

As if we don't know goddamn good and well that Joe Biden is compromised with Ukraine?

Do you suppose paying his crackhead son millions of dollars for a cushy no show job was for some other mysterious reason than to bribe Joe Biden? You think they would be warring in Ukraine right now if not for that compromise?

You think you know something the rest of us here don't, when you've actually got your head up your ass and the whole point is going right over you

And newsflash, you quoted the Steele dossier? A document discredited by ITS OWN SOURCE and was a bunch of made up bullshit from the beginning

 

[hometeam]

You think they would be warring in Ukraine right now if not for that compromise?

Yes. Like I said this is a bipartisan deal helping Ukraine. I think Rand Paul is the only opposition here and maybe Ted Cruz at times depending on how the wind blows.

And newsflash, you quoted the Steele dossier? A document discredited by ITS OWN SOURCE and was a bunch of made up bullshit from the beginning

Well it's turned out to be true as far as it saying Putin wanted Trump to lift the sanctions and criticize his NATO partners. The Mueller report couldn't confirm or rule out him being compromised. He's certainly acted as if he were.

 

[Hughinn]

Yes. Like I said this is a bipartisan deal. I think Rand Paul is the only opposition here and maybe Ted Cruz at times depending on how the wind blows.

God, you one dumb fuk.

There's no goddamn way that without all those bribes, financing the coup in 2014 and the billions and billions of dollars in cash, mercenaries and weapons being poured into Ukraine right now, the means or motives to make war would be there

 

[Big_paul]

The whole thing is fucked up, on all sides.

I just wish our own government hadn't agitated and coerced it along.

Not to mention sending trillions of our dollars to keep the shit show going

I don't think anybody in America could even show where Ukrain was on a map until they started pumping money into Joe Bidens pockets.

Now we're supposed to support them at all costs?

Tell me brother when has weakness ever been a good survival statagy.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

There are patriots who left the corrupt govt: listen to them.


View: https://youtu.be/6ZSfz4N9GMM

 

[hometeam]

God, you one dumb fuk.

There's no goddamn way that without all those bribes, financing the coup in 2014 and the billions and billions of dollars in cash, mercenaries and weapons being poured into Ukraine right now, the means or motives to make war would be there

If this is all a product of US will (and just a few politicians at that), if this isn't Ukrainian will at all, then why are the Ukrainians fighting so hard? Why is Russian morale so low?

This actually comes from Fox News:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0D4jd1d4BY

 

[Hughinn]

Tell me brother when has weakness ever been a good survival statagy.

I don't know what you mean by "weakness" as a strategy Paul.

But I do know being a worldwide bully and starting trouble with anybody and everybody just to throw a little guy up against a wall to show how tough you are isn't a good strategy either

 

[hometeam]

There are patriots who left the corrupt govt: listen to them.


View: https://youtu.be/6ZSfz4N9GMM

That's funny. This is also from Judge Napolitano's channel, an interview with someone on the ground in Ukraine, who is asked about Col MacGregor's statements and he totally contradicts him. Says "come on over and see for yourself":

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz25GV8X57c

Interestingly, the Ukrainians have no desire to go to the negotiation table at this time.

 

[Hughinn]

If this is all a product of US will (and just a few politicians at that), if this isn't Ukrainian will at all, then why are the Ukrainians fighting so hard? Why is Russian morale so low?

This actually comes from Fox News:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0D4jd1d4BY

I didn't say the ukranian people weren't motivated.

Just look at the coup of 2014 or any of the dozens of coups the US state department has launched the past fifty years.

Every country has people in that country with grievances to exploit. Even our own. And a corrupt Eastern European ogliarchy like Ukraine probably has more than most.

Which is likely why the coup led to a civil war. Which also argues against any further us involvement as any involvement so far has just led to more and additional misery and suffering for ukranian people

 

[hometeam]

I didn't say the ukranian people weren't motivated.

What you're saying is that the 2014 protests/riots and resulting impeachment "coup" was a product of US telling them to do that and coercing them to do that. That they didn't want to do that on their own. And that the invasion wouldn't have happened without that. So why are the Ukrainians fighting so hard? This obviously a cause they should not, can not believe in. Right? Obviously they would want things to be the way it was before.

 

[Hughinn]

Yes. Like I said this is a bipartisan deal helping Ukraine. I think Rand Paul is the only opposition here and maybe Ted Cruz at times depending on how the wind blows.


Well it's turned out to be true as far as it saying Putin wanted Trump to lift the sanctions and criticize his NATO partners. The Mueller report couldn't confirm or rule out him being compromised. He's certainly acted as if he were.

So what? Of course Putin wanted trump to lift the sanctions. Alot of European countries wanted them lifted to?

And why not lift them?

"Criticize his NATO partners" there's been calls from all over Europe and America to disband NATO since the end of the cold war. That's nothing new or radical. And it damn sure don't mean he's "compromised"

What good for the world has NATO been since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw pact?

Lots of foreign policy experts and everyday Americans criticize and call for disbanding NATO.

And why not?

 

[Deleted member 123722]

That's funny. This is also from Judge Napolitano's channel, an interview with someone on the ground in Ukraine, who is asked about Col MacGregor's statements and he totally contradicts him. Says "come on over and see for yourself":

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz25GV8X57c

Interestingly, the Ukrainians have no desire to go to the negotiation table at this time.

It's not funny at all. This man is giving a different opinion, and then say now they are getting upgrades that they didn't have before.

Ukraine cannot win this "war"; and you will all see how you're being lied to again by the MSM. They only way they could, is if other countries get involved on the ground, and you who know what that means right? You think all of Europe is going to allow that over some land dispute, knowing that Ukraine one of America's most corrupt puppet-nation?

Do you think Russia blew up their own pipeline, too?

I'm shocked Americans are still willing to believe EVERYTHING they are told by the same institutions that lied about virtually every war in the last 80 years.

Most Americans couldn't even spell Ukraine before this started, but once the Media told them what to care about it, suddenly everyone changed their profile pics to the Ukrainian flag, and anyone who disagree is a russian bot lol; suddenly everyone is an expert on geopolitical affairs.

This stupidity and herd-like mentality is why a few parasitical elites, that control banking an media, can run the entire planet with their lies; and honestly, they deserve to, since people are just fucking retarded.

 

[Hughinn]

What you're saying is that the 2014 protests/riots and resulting impeachment "coup" was a product of US telling them to do that and coercing them to do that. That they didn't want to do that on their own. And that the invasion wouldn't have happened without that. So why are the Ukrainians fighting so hard? This obviously a cause they should not, can not believe in. Right? Obviously they would want things to be the way it was before.

There's no fucking rational argument to made against the fact the 2014 coup was a product of the US state department. Nobody disputed that.

And if that coup hadn't happened, then there would likely have not been a civil war triggered by the coup.

That's a no brainer.

What's your question