Retatrutide Upper Ceiling

[Raiders789]

Hello everyone - wanted to ask those of you who have been on reta for a long time how your dosage progression looked.

I've been on reta for the past 2 months on a lean bulk, starting at 2mg/week and am currently at 5.25mg/week. Reta has been absolutely amazing so far, I've been titrating up the dose in a way that gets rid of my food noise and my desire to have cheat meals but still lets me get all my calories in. My fasting glucose has stayed around ~85 eating 500g carbs every day and on 4IU gh with test/primo. I just ended my cycle, and am planning to cruise/cut for about 12ish weeks before my next cycle. So my questions for those with more experience with reta are:

How high have you had to bring up your dose on a cut? If I had to guess right now based on what I've seen on meso I would guess I might need to go as high as 10mg. Obviously I'd only titrate up as needed, but I'm curious to see how high you guys have gone and what your experiences are.

Also, should I be concerned about my glucose dropping too much? For my bulk I've been using reta and 1g berberine ED to manage my glucose, and I just got my hands on some slow release metformin that I was planning to use on the cut too. Do you guys think I could go hypoglycemic? And for those of you guys that have done high dose reta, how did it impact your fasting glucose?

Lastly, I know that reta interacts with the glucagon receptor and that causes an increase in metabolic rate, but is it possible to predict how much that boost is? And is it dose dependent or does it level off past a certain mg/week?

Thanks!

 

[Ghoul]

Hello everyone - wanted to ask those of you who have been on reta for a long time how your dosage progression looked.

I've been on reta for the past 2 months on a lean bulk, starting at 2mg/week and am currently at 5.25mg/week. Reta has been absolutely amazing so far, I've been titrating up the dose in a way that gets rid of my food noise and my desire to have cheat meals but still lets me get all my calories in. My fasting glucose has stayed around ~85 eating 500g carbs every day and on 4IU gh with test/primo. I just ended my cycle, and am planning to cruise/cut for about 12ish weeks before my next cycle. So my questions for those with more experience with reta are:

How high have you had to bring up your dose on a cut? If I had to guess right now based on what I've seen on meso I would guess I might need to go as high as 10mg. Obviously I'd only titrate up as needed, but I'm curious to see how high you guys have gone and what your experiences are.

Also, should I be concerned about my glucose dropping too much? For my bulk I've been using reta and 1g berberine ED to manage my glucose, and I just got my hands on some slow release metformin that I was planning to use on the cut too. Do you guys think I could go hypoglycemic? And for those of you guys that have done high dose reta, how did it impact your fasting glucose?

Lastly, I know that reta interacts with the glucagon receptor and that causes an increase in metabolic rate, but is it possible to predict how much that boost is? And is it dose dependent or does it level off past a certain mg/week?

Thanks!

I'll leave the cutting experience to others, but I can answer a few of your technical questions since I wanted the same answers.

Hypoglycemia is virtually unheard of with GLPs, because they don't lower glucose by brute force. They enhance insulin sensitivity and make beta cells work more efficiently, which adds up to better glucose control, but not hypoglycemia.

Adding berberine and metformin increases the risk a little, but it's still low because none of these three compounds push insulin secretion independent of glucose levels. What can happen is that insulin response potentially overshoots post carb intake, and gives you temporary hypoglycemia. Being fasted worsens this. I'd avoid adding metformin unless you really need more glucose control.

Keep in mind resting energy expenditure drops in a calorie deficit.

The data regarding Reta's glucagon resting energy expenditure boosting effect hasn't been released, but indirect markers suggest it's barely detectable at 4mg, becomes meaningful around 6-8mg, and exceeds baseline (pre calorie deficit) thermogenic energy expenditure around 10-12mg. So yes, the "free" calorie burn is dose dependent.

 

[Raiders789]

I'll leave the cutting experience to others, but I can answer a few of your technical questions since I wanted the same answers.

Hypoglycemia is virtually unheard of with GLPs, because they don't lower glucose by brute force. They enhance insulin sensitivity and make beta cells work more efficiently, which adds up to better glucose control, but not hypoglycemia.

Adding berberine and metformin increases the risk a little, but it's still low because none of these three compounds push insulin secretion independent of glucose levels. What can happen is that insulin response potentially overshoots post carb intake, and gives you temporary hypoglycemia. Being fasted worsens this. I'd avoid adding metformin unless you really need more glucose control.

Keep in mind resting energy expenditure drops in a calorie deficit.

The data regarding Reta's glucagon resting energy expenditure boosting effect hasn't been released, but indirect markers suggest it's barely detectable at 4mg, becomes meaningful around 6-8mg, and exceeds baseline (pre calorie deficit) thermogenic energy expenditure around 10-12mg. So yes, the "free" calorie burn is dose dependent.

Ok thanks bro, I plan to time most of my carbs around my lifts too so I agree I don't think I'll need the metformin, guess I'll just save it for the next bulk.

Thanks for the info about the glucagon effect; It'll be interesting to see how my energy shifts as I get deeper into the defecit/increase the reta. I'll also draw bloods throughout to monitor my thyroid function; I'm currently supplementing 50mcg T4 but if bloods show a drop in FT3/FT4 then I'll just up the dose.

 

[Ghoul]

Ok thanks bro, I plan to time most of my carbs around my lifts too so I agree I don't think I'll need the metformin, guess I'll just save it for the next bulk.

Thanks for the info about the glucagon effect; It'll be interesting to see how my energy shifts as I get deeper into the defecit/increase the reta. I'll also draw bloods throughout to monitor my thyroid function; I'm currently supplementing 50mcg T4 but if bloods show a drop in FT3/FT4 then I'll just up the dose.

Good idea, I don't think many, including doctors, appreciate the impact GLPs can have on thyroid function.

 

[Raiders789]

Good idea, I don't think many, including doctors, appreciate the impact GLPs can have on thyroid function.

For real bro; Before taking any PEDs I lost 70lbs naturally and endured 9 months of just feeling like shit. Got my bloods done and I had hypothyroidism and hypogonadism. I wish I had the knowledge then that I currently have, but prolonged calorie restriction can tank thyroid function which just sucks to deal with. Hopefully more people on GLPs start also monitoring their thyroid function, testosterone, igf1, etc. I figure if you're going to take the GLPs you might as well get the most out of it by maintaining/optimizing your other hormones.

 

[Ghoul]

For real bro; Before taking any PEDs I lost 70lbs naturally and endured 9 months of just feeling like shit. Got my bloods done and I had hypothyroidism and hypogonadism. I wish I had the knowledge then that I currently have, but prolonged calorie restriction can tank thyroid function which just sucks to deal with. Hopefully more people on GLPs start also monitoring their thyroid function, testosterone, igf1, etc. I figure if you're going to take the GLPs you might as well get the most out of it by maintaining/optimizing your other hormones.

Yeah I think even though you don't feel hungry. your body still thinks it's starving and slows everything down via the thyroid.

Nearly everyone I know who's said they're tired or have brain fog after losing significant weight discovers they have hypothyroidism, or subclinical hypothyroidism.

I got back to "normal" within range free T4 after 50mcg of T4, and felt so good I consulted with a "thyroid optimization" specialist who said it was ok, even desirable to got to 80% of the max for my age. 100mcg got me there and it's a major quality of life improver. Like "jump out of bed" energy every morning.

 

[amiri]

Yeah I think even though you don't feel hungry. your body still thinks it's starving and slows everything down via the thyroid.

Nearly everyone I know who's said they're tired or have brain fog after losing significant weight discovers they have hypothyroidism, or subclinical hypothyroidism.

I got back to "normal" within range free T4 after 50mcg of T4, and felt so good I consulted with a "thyroid optimization" specialist who said it was ok, even desirable to got to 80% of the max for my age. 100mcg got me there and it's a major quality of life improver. Like "jump out of bed" energy every morning.

when you started feeling good after how long of using t4 ,and what is the plan to stay on t4 for life?

 

[Ghoul]

when you started feeling good after how long of using t4 ,and what is the plan to stay on t4 for life?

I noticed a significant difference by day 3 of 50mcg, but it takes a month to reach steady blood levels (at which point you should have a blood test to check TSH and free T4) and changes (to metabolism etc) continue for months after that. Because endogenous production drops in response, the effects waned somewhat, but based on labs, I was titrated to 100mg and everything's been stable since.

It's a maintenance med, so yes, it's for life, though given the very high incidence of untreated hypothyroidism and sub-clinical hypothyroidism, 70% in the US, ~5 million people, you can live without it if you choose to. There are no side effects in the sense it's the same hormone you produce naturally, though the abrupt increase when you start taking it can cause elevated heart rate, temp, appetite until your body acclimates to higher t4 levels over a few weeks.

The hardest part is having to take it consistantly on an empty stomach to ensure proper absorption. At least 30 mins before food (or any beverage other than water).

I started keeping a small bottle with the day's dose bedside, and take it the moment I wake up, before getting out of bed.

The tabs are minuscule.

The other important aspect is to stick with one brand for consistency, since once the proper dose is dialed in you don't want any variations that could alter its effectiveness.

I recommend Abbot Labs Thyronorm. They developed T4, are one of the largest pharma companies so they'll be around, and demonstrated a commitment to keeping formulation and dosing perfectly stable for decades. It's $5 or less for bottle of 120 tablets from India. You could just buy 1 bottle each of 25, 50, 100 and have what you'd need to dial in the correct dose. Then next time order the exact dose if it's an odd number like 75mcg or 125mcg.

If you're interested lmk and I'll point you to the step by step method you can use to check thyroid function, then dial in a replacement dose if needed to optimize thyroid levels.

 

[amiri]

Good info, thanks.
I feel like when i take AI that my thyroid slows down, but when free test and e2 are crazy high i feel better (ofc then i got all e2 side effects). At some point even taking Aromasin 6.5 mg 3 days in a row i would still have spicy nipples and i would have hypothyroid symptoms.
Like thyroid increase e2 even more when it dosent work good.
(Before that i crashed my e2 with aromasin atleast 2 times so i know aromasin was legit)

This make sense because women with brest cancer who was taking AI and had crashed e2 all have problems with thyroid.

Stopped taking Aromasin and switched to Arimidex and i see difference and feel better, but still have hypo sypmtoms.

Did you read anything about this topic? I only saw one guy who couldnt lower his e2 with aromasin and i was looking his bloodwork and his TSH was 4.80.

 

[Raiders789]

I noticed a significant difference by day 3 of 50mcg, but it takes a month to reach steady blood levels (at which point you should have a blood test to check TSH and free T4) and changes (to metabolism etc) continue for months after that. Because endogenous production drops in response, the effects waned somewhat, but based on labs, I was titrated to 100mg and everything's been stable since.

It's a maintenance med, so yes, it's for life, though given the very high incidence of untreated hypothyroidism and sub-clinical hypothyroidism, 70% in the US, ~5 million people, you can live without it if you choose to. There are no side effects in the sense it's the same hormone you produce naturally, though the abrupt increase when you start taking it can cause elevated heart rate, temp, appetite until your body acclimates to higher t4 levels over a few weeks.

The hardest part is having to take it consistantly on an empty stomach to ensure proper absorption. At least 30 mins before food (or any beverage other than water).

I started keeping a small bottle with the day's dose bedside, and take it the moment I wake up, before getting out of bed.

The tabs are minuscule.

The other important aspect is to stick with one brand for consistency, since once the proper dose is dialed in you don't want any variations that could alter its effectiveness.

I recommend Abbot Labs Thyronorm. They developed T4, are one of the largest pharma companies so they'll be around, and demonstrated a commitment to keeping formulation and dosing perfectly stable for decades. It's $5 or less for bottle of 120 tablets from India. You could just buy 1 bottle each of 25, 50, 100 and have what you'd need to dial in the correct dose. Then next time order the exact dose if it's an odd number like 75mcg or 125mcg.

If you're interested lmk and I'll point you to the step by step method you can use to check thyroid function, then dial in a replacement dose if needed to optimize thyroid levels.

View attachment 336999

Damn bro that's a lot of great info! You seem really knowledgeable about thyroid supplementation; would be huge if you could help me out real quick.

So I've been cruising for the past few weeks on 220 test 3.5IU gh and 50mcg T4. I was originally taking 75mcg T4(on cycle, bloodwork done 6 weeks ago) which had my TSH at 1.7, FT4 at 1.56, T3 at 2.5, and RT3 at 40.1. After seeing the high RT3 I dropped my dose to 50mcg, which has my TSH still at 1.7 but FT4 at 1.36, T3 at 2.2 and RT3 at 29.4(bloods just recently pulled). For the past few weeks I've also been upping the reta so I'm currently on 9mg/week(which has been great so far) and have greatly lowered my carb intake. My thought process in lowering the T4 dose was that a lower FT4 would prevent Deiodinase 3 up regulation and lower RT3 conversion, making more FT3. But I guess I must be wrong, so do you think I'd be better off taking more T4? I've just recently been starting to experience hypothyroid symptoms. I've also been planning to increase my GH dose a bit, which I know could help speed up T3 conversion but I don't think it will be that much of a difference.

Thanks!

 

[Ghoul]

No I wouldn't increase T4. That will only make things worse.

It looks like you have conversion hypothyroidism (were you ever diagnosed?), and Reta inhibits conversion even more.

If I were in your situation I'd add 5mcg liothyronine (T3) in the AM. That should relieve symptoms fast, and if all is well after a few days you could increase it to 2x a day.

Retake labs in 4 weeks and I think everything should look ok.

 

[Raiders789]

No I wouldn't increase T4. That will only make things worse.

It looks like you have conversion hypothyroidism (were you ever diagnosed?), and Reta inhibits conversion even more.

If I were in your situation I'd add 5mcg liothyronine (T3) in the AM. That should relieve symptoms fast, and if all is well after a few days you could increase it to 2x a day.

Retake labs in 4 weeks and I think everything should look ok.

Just thought I'd share - ended up adding 10mcg T3 in the morning and dropped my T4 to 25mcg. Feeling way better and have lots of energy. Gonna get bloods in a few weeks to see where my levels are at but just wanted to say thanks for the help!

 

[Raiders789]

Just thought I'd share - ended up adding 10mcg T3 in the morning and dropped my T4 to 25mcg. Feeling way better and have lots of energy. Gonna get bloods in a few weeks to see where my levels are at but just wanted to say thanks for the help!

Just thought I'd share if anyone comes back to this thread -

I am still doing 10mcg T3 with 25mcg T4 every day in the morning and my thyroid markers just tested at: TSH - 1.2, FT3 - 3.52, FT4 - 1.09. Down the road, I might experiment with slowly raising T4 and lowering T3 to eventually try to phase the T3 out, but gonna stick with these doses for a while. Feel so much better doing split replacement therapy. If anyone else ever has issues with high RT3 conversion, would definitely recommend just adding in some cytomel.

Also, since this thread originally was about reta, I'm currently on 10.5mg/week and feel like this is the perfect balance for me on a lean bulk. I'm able to get all my meals in, but don't really ever crave junk food or cheat meals. It really is a wonder drug, and I feel I've noticed a pronounced effect from the glucagon/heightened energy expenditure because I've been eating 3500+ calories a day and haven't budged over 12%bf. Also, have cut out berberine except for occasional use on really high carb days and my fasting glucose was 79 and fasting insulin was 3.

 

[Psycho]

Good info, thanks.
I feel like when i take AI that my thyroid slows down, but when free test and e2 are crazy high i feel better (ofc then i got all e2 side effects). At some point even taking Aromasin 6.5 mg 3 days in a row i would still have spicy nipples and i would have hypothyroid symptoms.
Like thyroid increase e2 even more when it dosent work good.
(Before that i crashed my e2 with aromasin atleast 2 times so i know aromasin was legit)

This make sense because women with brest cancer who was taking AI and had crashed e2 all have problems with thyroid.

Stopped taking Aromasin and switched to Arimidex and i see difference and feel better, but still have hypo sypmtoms.

Did you read anything about this topic? I only saw one guy who couldnt lower his e2 with aromasin and i was looking his bloodwork and his TSH was 4.80.

Ai are more detrimental than their worth .i never use one no matter how high a dose.if you keep body fat low you will avoid the estrogen side effects and if not you’re better off taking some eq,primo or masteron at a low dosage to prevent estrogen side effects.