Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

What the "Egrifta document", really the consumer insert.
I generally shy away from topics I know nothing about, so I don't like comments I put out being dismissed as knuckle dragging, especially when I feel His contributions are valuable in regard to said topic.

There is no point in me countering warnings, but I mean, calling that suggestion knuckle dragging? Its merely a comment borne out of tolerance limits/preference.

Plus another good thing about the Erythropoietin mishap is that it was due to the rubber stoppers contaminating the peptide. This is one thing he has been campaigning about so that's great!! However, he attributed it to Tungsten which prompted my fiction comment.

Now I need to go fix my computer. Seemed to have wiped my desktop by syncing one drive o_O


IMG_0559.webp
 
Give it your best shot.

Let's stick to one point at a time though. I have more than enough to counter your points in turn.

You've implied that immunogenicity is only relevant to the sick and not the healthy. It's something you share with @AlexDavis43.

Make that make sense. It's been brought up by you and Alex repeatedly.

How is an ill, weakened person more likely to have a potent immunogenic reaction than a healthy person?
That association you put forth is too simplistic.
A disease can be over expression of immunity.. i,e autoimmunity that leads to be body attacking every shyte it assumes is foreign
A health person's immune system may over react or on the other hand may be better at clearing aggregates so they don't linger and trigger complexes that result in more grievous actions.
Lastly, there is a tesamorelin study in healthy people. Tesa worked. It means the reaction to it was probably no worse.. but we will not know. The researchers were not hell bent on looking for that. They probaby were exploring Tesa for weightloss first but figured that was a waste compared to other meds...
 
What the "Egrifta document", really the consumer insert.

You see, it was deficient googling on your part. The EPO stuff you posted was not due to the tungsten needle.. it was due to the bung. You did not google deeply enough perhaps. I on the other hand was taught in class
 
Give it your best shot.

Let's stick to one point at a time though. I have more than enough to counter your points in turn.

You've implied that immunogenicity is only relevant to the sick and not the healthy. It's something you share with @AlexDavis43.

Make that make sense. It's been brought up by you and Alex repeatedly.

How is an ill, weakened person more likely to have a potent immunogenic reaction than a healthy person?

More potent immunogenic reactions might be how they became ill & weakened in the first place.

Good grief man.
 
Yes.

HGH is the only peptide / protein drug routinely monitored for immunogenicity at the clinic level. There's a blood test available for it.

One of the ways it's dealt with is switching brands, to see if antibody levels go down and the HGH starts working again. Since all HGH is somatropin, the only difference between brands are the excipient ingredients in the formulation, which mainly serve to minimize aggregation to prevent immunogenicity.

Here are children who lost response to HGH from immunogenicity and the methods used to try and fix it. "Inhibition" is how much HGH effectiveness was reduced.

View attachment 316328

Here's a measure of the antibodies produced by different pharma formulations, most of which can be attributed to aggregates.

View attachment 316329

UGL is certainly worse. No anti-aggregate measures are taken (slightly wrong PH alone can cause aggregation to get 10x worse). No immunogenicity tests are conducted. "I've never noticed immunogenicity". Would you notice a 15-20% drop in effectiveness over a year?

Filtering reduces immunogenicity, ensures sterility, prevents particulates like common glass delamination and stopper rubber from getting into your body and eventually your organs where they accumulate, causing micro embolisms. It's all upside.
Wouldn’t filtration potentially degrade HGH efficacy by inducing agitation, similar to how excessive shaking or impact causes foaming and denaturation? You’ve previously explained aspects of this, but I’m interested in understanding how the filtration process avoids structural disruption of the protein. Also, can immunogenicity become a persistent issue even after prolonged cessation of HGH use?

Edit:
I didn’t initially see the other member’s question, which essentially addressed the same point in the latter part of mine and you answered that. Apologies.
 
Sounds to me like your dipping your toes into the pool to see if it’s warm enough to jump back in.

Now here’s what I came here to post.

WHERE’S MY FUCKING MONEY?!?!

You took mine and everyone else’s money that placed orders on this forum knowing full well that there were problems. You’re not even in China. You have my money. BTC has risen through the roof since I placed my order. Your wallets haven’t been emptied. You have out fucking money. Now refund your customers that you so much care about and wish to do business with. Otherwise go and kill yourself. You talk to people like trash openly and then come here and want sympathy from people here that 2024 wasn’t profitable. Go cry me a fucking river. You took peoples money and give some sorry ass story that you can’t log in and you’re not having a good time with our money. That’s some bullshit if you ask me. And any jerkoff that does business with you in the future would be even dumber.

No shut the fuck up and come here when you have everyone’s money. Otherwise go fuck yourself.
This is the game, bro! It’s always a risk. You can get bunk gear, lose your money, get an infection, or even get popped; it comes with the territory. Tracy mentioned they’ve been running into issues since November, and Ghoul was warning about shipping problems even before that. You knew the risks going in, so you shouldn’t jump on a source’s thread and start berating them when you willingly took the gamble and it didn’t go your way. If you want a guarantee that you won’t get ripped off, end up with bunk gear, or risk getting popped, then don’t run gear or just go to your local men’s clinic and pay $180 for a vial of test. As soon as Tracy and Ghoul started warning about the issues coming our way, I made the call to sacrifice some holiday cash and stocked up. After that November order, I was out. I knew exactly what you’re dealing with now was bound to happen.
 
Did you check jasonhealth? they use quest. I just got blood work done and I spilt the order between jasonhealth and ultalabs. Scheduled the appointment and showed them my 2 orders and they pulled blood for both orders at the same time. I also check grassroots labs for some tests.

This one is jasonhealth.
View attachment 316410

This is ulta labs
View attachment 316411
Wow, for Quest, that's phenomenal pricing! Even competitive with LabCorp through Fitomics.
 
Sounds to me like your dipping your toes into the pool to see if it’s warm enough to jump back in.

Now here’s what I came here to post.

WHERE’S MY FUCKING MONEY?!?!

You took mine and everyone else’s money that placed orders on this forum knowing full well that there were problems. You’re not even in China. You have my money. BTC has risen through the roof since I placed my order. Your wallets haven’t been emptied. You have out fucking money. Now refund your customers that you so much care about and wish to do business with. Otherwise go and kill yourself. You talk to people like trash openly and then come here and want sympathy from people here that 2024 wasn’t profitable. Go cry me a fucking river. You took peoples money and give some sorry ass story that you can’t log in and you’re not having a good time with our money. That’s some bullshit if you ask me. And any jerkoff that does business with you in the future would be even dumber.

No shut the fuck up and come here when you have everyone’s money. Otherwise go fuck yourself.
Waa waa, cry about it. Stupid cunt, you're participating in illegal activities. If you're scared about losing money, stick to Creatine and Mutant WPI ya donut.
 
This is the game, bro! It’s always a risk. You can get bunk gear, lose your money, get an infection, or even get popped; it comes with the territory. Tracy mentioned they’ve been running into issues since November, and Ghoul was warning about shipping problems even before that. You knew the risks going in, so you shouldn’t jump on a source’s thread and start berating them when you willingly took the gamble and it didn’t go your way. If you want a guarantee that you won’t get ripped off, end up with bunk gear, or risk getting popped, then don’t run gear or just go to your local men’s clinic and pay $180 for a vial of test. As soon as Tracy and Ghoul started warning about the issues coming our way, I made the call to sacrifice some holiday cash and stocked up. After that November order, I was out. I knew exactly what you’re dealing with now was bound to happen.
Anyone commenting that “this isn’t Amazon” and “I knew the risk” gets the fucking Genius of the Year Award and a gold star. Jesus you guys are fucking sharp. First off, if you ain’t out any money the shut the fuck up. Who gives a fuck what you anticipated happening you fucking braggard. You got lucky is all. November and problems were happening but you still placed an order? You rolled the dice and got lucky is all. And if you somehow anticipated something like this was bound to happen then why did the Chinaman take people’s money and stop processing orders? Pfffttt.

It’s not the money for me. I made plenty off of QSC and his peptides. There are many that are out a lot of fucking money. And this shitbag comes on here with some soliloquy on how fucking 2024 was a non-profitable year but just a few days before his announcement the QSC wallet was cleared out of funds. If it’s the intention of QSC to make things right then make things right. No need to post here. Post here when you have everyone’s loot.

Y’all are just dickriding a vendor jaded by cheap floater laced $5 oils. You’ll see. If he comes back, he will make a very small fraction of customers whole and fuck everyone else. Why would he need to refund everyone. I mean he made zero profit in 2024.
 
Anyone commenting that “this isn’t Amazon” and “I knew the risk” gets the fucking Genius of the Year Award and a gold star. Jesus you guys are fucking sharp. First off, if you ain’t out any money the shut the fuck up. Who gives a fuck what you anticipated happening you fucking braggard. You got lucky is all. November and problems were happening but you still placed an order? You rolled the dice and got lucky is all. And if you somehow anticipated something like this was bound to happen then why did the Chinaman take people’s money and stop processing orders? Pfffttt.

It’s not the money for me. I made plenty off of QSC and his peptides. There are many that are out a lot of fucking money. And this shitbag comes on here with some soliloquy on how fucking 2024 was a non-profitable year but just a few days before his announcement the QSC wallet was cleared out of funds. If it’s the intention of QSC to make things right then make things right. No need to post here. Post here when you have everyone’s loot.

Y’all are just dickriding a vendor jaded by cheap floater laced $5 oils. You’ll see. If he comes back, he will make a very small fraction of customers whole and fuck everyone else. Why would he need to refund everyone. I mean he made zero profit in 2024.
Stop waffling lad. Seems you have high estrogen
 
HGH section:

What was your goal with the massive GH use? Thanks for sharing your story.
To oversimplify it: growth (mostly for muscle, but the acromegalic prognathism also probably countered my slight recession too) and recovery — I simply enjoy training hard, and I like to maximise whatever I'm fixated on at any point in time in a very platonic sense. It's also not as if I started with 90iu straight up. I started with a much lower dose and had sides for a while, which then subsided; then, I increased the dose and continued increasing it as sides weren't really appearing other than a lot of water retention and the HRV & RHR stuff. In fact, the hand numbness was worse at the start at less than a vial a day and was virtually non-existent by the time I got to over 2 vials a day. Only persistent side was the negative impact to HRV & RHR I talked about, which then eventually stopped and reversed (although there was some intervention from me there).

90iu of HGH a day
It was only around 90 iu for around a few months. You guys should also remember that my IGF-1 levels are NOT the ones you'd expect from 90 iu:
Somatomedin-C (IGF-1) ↑ 977.5 ng/mL 134.0 - 450.0 Serum
I'm aware exogenous HGH dosage conversion to IGF-1 is very variable/vague; however, these are IGF-1 levels that are easily representative of sub 20 iu per day dosing, so it's not as if I'm experiencing the IGF-1 elevation usually expected from 90 iu a day. This is the WHOLE POINT of the discussion.

Could this be causing desensitisation to rHGH more so than very high injection frequency?

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/87/8/3573/2846550
Regarding injection frequency, I was aiming for every 4-5 hours, excluding sleep/work. More or less even doses other than after training with a slightly increased dose.

The frequency was to maximise lipolysis benefit to gain more aggressively; however, in hindsight, this was not the best decision.
I also had a very high inj frequency, which also causes desensitisation.

Also i read paperwork inside genotropins it actually says in small percentage of patients GH antibodies Develop early and in high amounts so huge doses Are needed. I believe even our insurance companies are taking it into account.
So one Guy on a fórum is expected percentage.
I'll add this comment as it's somewhat relevant.

1: Get a baseline GH Antibody Test.

You can't self order it (too little demand), but if you go to a place like UltaLabTests and ask if they can arrange it for you, I think there's a good chance they'll add it to their "menu" of choices, and at a good discount below the standard ~$200.

2. Start filtering, per dose, just before administration. Aggregates take time to develop, the closer to administration the filtering the less time the trash UGL GH formula will have to recreate more aggregates.

This is the equivalent of changing brands. Given you haven't seen response go to zero, I strongly suspect as soon as the immune stimulating factors are reduced, aggregates and impurities. antibodies will drop, and efficacy will increase.

After a 1-3 months check Antibody levels again. If they're lower, you know you're moving in the right direction and should start lowering the dose to compensate for increased efficacy.

It's rare we see such a clear "loss of efficacy" situation, most of the time it's "feels" reports of members claiming bunk gear, that it worked in the past but this batch isn't working, yet tests show the GH is fine.

That's where the common denominator simian mind on Meso loses interest in trying to establish why (despite the fact this happens with pharma, which is why an anti- immunogenicity protocol and GH antibody tests exist). They take a break, or try another brand or switches to pharma, insists the new brand or pharma is the only way to go, never really digging into why HGH that tests good stopped being effective.

Finally, if you take my advice and get a GH antibody test, which I want to emphasize would be groundbreaking in the UGL community, request the lab provide whatever *raw data* is available. I can't find it at the moment, but I've read a report that said an adult GH non responder (in adults with GH deficiency they look at IGF and not growth like children), didn't show a positive result on the GH antibody test, but in the raw data there were antibodies of another type, not normally considered relevant, that were high. Once those were reduced (with a break and switching brands), HGH treatment efficacy was restored for that patient.
Thank you!

IQ banter section:

Not hoping to revive/drag out this "discussion" too much, so these might be my last responses on this topic unless you guys want to go through with escrow.
It is a Greek letter and used for standard deviation in statistics.
Yep. 1 (σ) sigma = 1 SD = 15 points RE: IQ

A few, you say? I’m dubious.
There's a convenient lifehack when someone's claiming you're BSing. You can use a neutral third party to verify ANY measurable claim (as I've offered to do with escrow), and you can stay anonymous as you only reveal the data to the escrow, who then verifies whether the claim is true or false and consequently resolves the transaction.

Is anyone willing to actually contest my IQ claim (WAIS-III test report about me with an IQ score of 133) because I can verify it with this method if anyone's up for it.

@Benf15harp @Trenbolonetax @lillijadeclyde @glpfun @LGOP528 @egruberman @Middus ?

How much?
As much as you're prepared to give. £1,000? £5,000? £10,000? More? It's not as if I don't have a report from a clinical neuropsychologist at an internationally renowned institution, where it, clear as day, says I was assessed on the WAIS-III and have a "133" score.

You are too stupid to insult and not worth my time.
Coming from the guy who can't multiply 15 by 2 and add it to 100 (or infer that's how you calculate an IQ at least a few (≥2) sigma over 100). Hint: 133>130.

You're calling me stupid, but I'm not the one making a factual error in virtually every single interaction between us so far. Can you cite one factual inaccuracy I've made? Just one? I can cite plenty from you (as I have done).

133 IQ but couldn’t see that rebuttal coming?
Tbh, I shouldn't be surprised that you don't know what "rebuttal" means and don't use it correctly when you struggle with words like "few" even when presented with a definition.

So, it turns out you guys do need help navigating a dictionary and learning the meanings of common three letter words.

Here's Merriam-Webster for the Americans and the Oxford English Dictionary for the Brits.

According to both of them, you're wrong.

Would you like help multiplying 15 by 2 and adding it to 100?

Hint: 133>130.

View attachment 316361


View attachment 316360
@LGOP528, come on, I'm sure you can post your IQ score or any sort of g-loaded data you have, and we can compare and use escrow to verify, if you're claiming I'm stupid, what would that make you?

A tiger doesn't proclaim its trigritude.
I didn't bring up IQ. I just falsified someone else's (@Benf15harp) 's claim about my IQ.

Speaking of... imagine what it must be like to be two standard deviations above the mean. That'd be roughly similar to being an average individual living in world full of people with Down's syndrome
This is what it feels like talking to some board members. Not all; some are probably smarter than me and not by a small amount either.

WAIS-III that's likely a test from a couple decades ago.
They still administer it as recently as the 2020s in the UK in some major neurological centres. Not sure why.

Nothing good can come from proclaiming it.
Well, if the doubters put up money in escrow, some small financial benefit may come of it. :)

For the IQ discussion to be substantive, should we commit to limiting it just to the escrow verification instead of shitslinging because it's not going to be very productive otherwise?
 
Anyone commenting that “this isn’t Amazon” and “I knew the risk” gets the fucking Genius of the Year Award and a gold star. Jesus you guys are fucking sharp. First off, if you ain’t out any money the shut the fuck up. Who gives a fuck what you anticipated happening you fucking braggard. You got lucky is all. November and problems were happening but you still placed an order? You rolled the dice and got lucky is all. And if you somehow anticipated something like this was bound to happen then why did the Chinaman take people’s money and stop processing orders? Pfffttt.

It’s not the money for me. I made plenty off of QSC and his peptides. There are many that are out a lot of fucking money. And this shitbag comes on here with some soliloquy on how fucking 2024 was a non-profitable year but just a few days before his announcement the QSC wallet was cleared out of funds. If it’s the intention of QSC to make things right then make things right. No need to post here. Post here when you have everyone’s loot.

Y’all are just dickriding a vendor jaded by cheap floater laced $5 oils. You’ll see. If he comes back, he will make a very small fraction of customers whole and fuck everyone else. Why would he need to refund everyone. I mean he made zero profit in 2024.
How about you pick a direction and fuck off in it, nobody wants to hear your crying shit.
 
HGH section:


To oversimplify it: growth (mostly for muscle, but the acromegalic prognathism also probably countered my slight recession too) and recovery — I simply enjoy training hard, and I like to maximise whatever I'm fixated on at any point in time in a very platonic sense. It's also not as if I started with 90iu straight up. I started with a much lower dose and had sides for a while, which then subsided; then, I increased the dose and continued increasing it as sides weren't really appearing other than a lot of water retention and the HRV & RHR stuff. In fact, the hand numbness was worse at the start at less than a vial a day and was virtually non-existent by the time I got to over 2 vials a day. Only persistent side was the negative impact to HRV & RHR I talked about, which then eventually stopped and reversed (although there was some intervention from me there).


It was only around 90 iu for around a few months. You guys should also remember that my IGF-1 levels are NOT the ones you'd expect from 90 iu:

I'm aware exogenous HGH dosage conversion to IGF-1 is very variable/vague; however, these are IGF-1 levels that are easily representative of sub 20 iu per day dosing, so it's not as if I'm experiencing the IGF-1 elevation usually expected from 90 iu a day. This is the WHOLE POINT of the discussion.



I also had a very high inj frequency, which also causes desensitisation.


I'll add this comment as it's somewhat relevant.


Thank you!

IQ banter section:

Not hoping to revive/drag out this "discussion" too much, so these might be my last responses on this topic unless you guys want to go through with escrow.

Yep. 1 (σ) sigma = 1 SD = 15 points RE: IQ


There's a convenient lifehack when someone's claiming you're BSing. You can use a neutral third party to verify ANY measurable claim (as I've offered to do with escrow), and you can stay anonymous as you only reveal the data to the escrow, who then verifies whether the claim is true or false and consequently resolves the transaction.

Is anyone willing to actually contest my IQ claim (WAIS-III test report about me with an IQ score of 133) because I can verify it with this method if anyone's up for it.

@Benf15harp @Trenbolonetax @lillijadeclyde @glpfun @LGOP528 @egruberman @Middus ?


As much as you're prepared to give. £1,000? £5,000? £10,000? More? It's not as if I don't have a report from a clinical neuropsychologist at an internationally renowned institution, where it, clear as day, says I was assessed on the WAIS-III and have a "133" score.


Coming from the guy who can't multiply 15 by 2 and add it to 100 (or infer that's how you calculate an IQ at least a few (≥2) sigma over 100). Hint: 133>130.

You're calling me stupid, but I'm not the one making a factual error in virtually every single interaction between us so far. Can you cite one factual inaccuracy I've made? Just one? I can cite plenty from you (as I have done).


Tbh, I shouldn't be surprised that you don't know what "rebuttal" means and don't use it correctly when you struggle with words like "few" even when presented with a definition.


@LGOP528, come on, I'm sure you can post your IQ score or any sort of g-loaded data you have, and we can compare and use escrow to verify, if you're claiming I'm stupid, what would that make you?


I didn't bring up IQ. I just falsified someone else's (@Benf15harp) 's claim about my IQ.


This is what it feels like talking to some board members. Not all; some are probably smarter than me and not by a small amount either.


They still administer it as recently as the 2020s in the UK in some major neurological centres. Not sure why.


Well, if the doubters put up money in escrow, some small financial benefit may come of it. :)

For the IQ discussion to be substantive, should we commit to limiting it just to the escrow verification instead of shitslinging because it's not going to be very productive otherwise?
You’re gonna fit in just perfectly here!
 
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