Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

[SpaceForce]

I guess it makes sense when you're dealing in counterfeit luxury goods that are nearly indistinguishable from the originals, they can figure out how to make seals that look like the real thing too.

Saw some Chinese "superclone" watches that are so good, it almost seems stupid to buy an original at this point because to anyone but a dealer (and only after taking off the back), there's no way to tell the difference.

I had a similar conversation yesterday with someone who's in the high-end watch scene. The head of the buyer's club he's in does repairs and said some of the clones are so meticulously done that they source the same parts surreptitiously and even research which serial numbers to clone. Sometimes only an expert a specific manufacturer's products can ID them.

If something can be made by one entity, it can be made by another.

 

[SpicyMeatball]

work for them?

Do you always default to conspiracy theories over evidence? Or is that just a meso thing for ya?

 

[Ghoul]

I had a similar conversation yesterday with someone who's in the high-end watch scene. The head of the buyer's club he's in does repairs and said some of the clones are so meticulously done that they source the same parts surreptitiously and even research which serial numbers to clone. Sometimes only an expert a specific manufacturer's products can ID them.

If something can be made by one entity, it can be made by another.

Despite the recent craze we now know they aren't good investments, and if no one can tell the difference when it's on your wrist, those who think you're wearing a fake will do so even if it's original, so yeah, basically this new gen of watch clones has sucked the value out of the originals,

It's not as if superclones are dirt cheap, the ones I saw started at $1k (no precious metals) which gives those Chinese manufacturers plenty of money to make sure all the details are perfect. It also reveals what a ripoff the $35k originals are.

Some annual production numbers slipped past Rolex's secrecy recently. It was in the millions, so hardly an "exclusive" low volume product any more.

 

[Garganzola]

Do you always default to conspiracy theories over evidence? Or is that just a meso thing for ya?

do you always criticize people who are asking question that you might already know the answers to, or is that just meso thing for ya?

 

[egruberman]

Despite the recent craze we now know they aren't good investments, and if no one can tell the difference when it's on your wrist, those who think you're wearing a fake will do so even if it's original, so yeah, basically this new gen of watch clones has sucked the value out of the originals

Most of the “good” clones are popular Rolex models which aren’t a great “investment” in any case. As for what may be a good investments, that would have to be something unique, an RW Smith, for example or certain vintage Patek Phillipe watches and so on.

Even still, the mechanical watch market is fully saturated. Other than certain boutique pieces, no new watch is likely to retain its value. Rolex, for example, doesn’t publish the number of watches they make per year but it can be deduced and it seems they are flooding the market and indulging in wishful thinking that the buyers will be there.

Edit: oh, I see you also made the point about production volume.

 

[Ghoul]

I don't see how they can restrict who's a "researcher" and who isn't in terms of legal, uncontrolled substances. Even the government has long recognized and even supported the participation of the public as amateur/unconventional/independent investigation as "Citizen Science"

How to find a citizen science opportunity | USAGov

Government agencies and other organizations can help you find a volunteer opportunity in citizen science. Also known as participatory science, explore how and where you can take part and make a difference.

www.citizenscience.gov

MESO itself is a form of this.

I can appreciate the low volume watches with unique features and complications....but as I heard someone comment about a $400,000 mechanical marvel: "It looks like something bought from Temu,".

Rolex became what it was because at one time it was the only brand that could stand up to adventure, so it suggested a certain lifestyle. Now they're all jewelry, which has its place.

At the end of the day I'm happy to put my Apple watch back on, Far more useful and, especially the steel and titanium cased versions with sapphire crystals, just as durable.

 

[kaizoku]

I guess it makes sense when you're dealing in counterfeit luxury goods that are nearly indistinguishable from the originals, they can figure out how to make seals that look like the real thing too.

Saw some Chinese "superclone" watches that are so good, it almost seems stupid to buy an original at this point because to anyone but a dealer (and only after taking off the back), there's no way to tell the difference.

I had a similar conversation yesterday with someone who's in the high-end watch scene. The head of the buyer's club he's in does repairs and said some of the clones are so meticulously done that they source the same parts surreptitiously and even research which serial numbers to clone. Sometimes only an expert a specific manufacturer's products can ID them.

If something can be made by one entity, it can be made by another.

Despite the recent craze we now know they aren't good investments, and if no one can tell the difference when it's on your wrist, those who think you're wearing a fake will do so even if it's original, so yeah, basically this new gen of watch clones has sucked the value out of the originals,

It's not as if superclones are dirt cheap, the ones I saw started at $1k (no precious metals) which gives those Chinese manufacturers plenty of money to make sure all the details are perfect. It also reveals what a ripoff the $35k originals are.

Some annual production numbers slipped past Rolex's secrecy recently. It was in the millions, so hardly an "exclusive" low volume product any more.

I've got a real latest gen Rolex Date Submariner ($10,400 msrp) and two "superclone" Submariner fakes (~$550 each), one with date and the other without.

Externally the differences are so small that when I wear the fakes and meet watch guys even they can't tell.

Opening the caseback is another story. The superclone movements have much worse fit and finish, and some parts are obviously different, but most of the visible parts in the movement that give it away can be swapped out with genuine Rolex parts.

For $550 you're getting 90% of the real thing for 5% of the price and no one can tell on the outside unless they know exactly which tiny details to look for. For another $500 for genuine parts you've got 99% of the real thing and no one can tell unless they pull the movement out of the case.

 

[Thequadfather]

I've got a real latest gen Rolex Date Submariner ($10,400 msrp) and two "superclone" Submariner fakes (~$550 each), one with date and the other without.

Externally the differences are so small that when I wear the fakes and meet watch guys even they can't tell.

Opening the caseback is another story. The superclone movements have much worse fit and finish, and some parts are obviously different, but most of the visible parts in the movement that give it away can be swapped out with genuine Rolex parts.

For $550 you're getting 90% of the real thing for 5% of the price and no one can tell on the outside unless they know exactly which tiny details to look for. For another $500 for genuine parts you've got 99% of the real thing and no one can tell unless they pull the movement out of the case.

Same here. I've got a few really nice genuine watches, a Speedmaster and a Rolex DayDate. I wanted a Rolex Daytona but can't afford the $35k price tag so I bought a super clone for $700. Appearance-wise, it is indistinguishable from the real thing, but as soon as you open it, it's obvious that its not real. But I never open the case back, so this doesn't matter much to me at all.

 

[bigdaddyandfriends]

Been in the watch game a long time. All I can say is do NOT buy a Rolex from a non-authorized dealer, or a very well established reseller (there are some).

There are some high end reps of Richard Mille, AP, Patek Phillipe etc - I have many - but they can still be identified fairly easily.

 

[Middus]

I had a similar conversation yesterday with someone who's in the high-end watch scene. The head of the buyer's club he's in does repairs and said some of the clones are so meticulously done that they source the same parts surreptitiously and even research which serial numbers to clone. Sometimes only an expert a specific manufacturer's products can ID them.

If something can be made by one entity, it can be made by another.

For some apparel fakes, it helps the counterfeiters that the company leaking the fakes may be the same one supplying Adidas (for example) the textiles/materials used to produce the authentic ones.

 

[egruberman]

do NOT buy a Rolex

Could've stopped there. Unless it's a very specific vintage piece.

At the end of the day I'm happy to put my Apple watch back on,

For me it's a Garmin watch. I have a couple of nice watches. Nothing terribly expensive, including a couple I assembled myself using Swiss movements that I rebuilt. They don't ever get worn.

 

[Middus]

Most of the “good” clones are popular Rolex models which aren’t a great “investment” in any case. As for what may be a good investments, that would have to be something unique, an RW Smith, for example or certain vintage Patek Phillipe watches and so on.

Even still, the mechanical watch market is fully saturated. Other than certain boutique pieces, no new watch is likely to retain its value. Rolex, for example, doesn’t publish the number of watches they make per year but it can be deduced and it seems they are flooding the market and indulging in wishful thinking that the buyers will be there.

Edit: oh, I see you also made the point about production volume.

As someone once told me, those who can easily afford these things do not waste time with these calculations.

 

[egruberman]

As someone once told me, those who can easily afford these things do not waste time with these calculations.

The market and all its thousands of micro-brands reselling the same goddamn movement at 10-100x markup are proof of this.

 

[Ghoul]

l

As someone once told me, those who can easily afford these things do not waste time with these calculations.

LOL, maybe a lottery winner or someone in the inheritance business.

That careless attitude is what poor people imagine they'd have if they were rich.

Wealth isn't a characteristic of people who are flippant with money. It's not about being cheap, it's about habits that permeate every decision.

 

[Pothole92]

Hey guys I picked up some Ment back in October and I’m finally getting around to using it. The color of the oil is throwing me off a little. It’s almost as dark as tren. Is this normal for ment? Mine are the white tops just like the jano test picture but the oil color is closer to the enanthate version. Any help would be great thanks.

 

[mok4315]

Man, who knew y’all were so into watches. Did not see that on my steroid underground bingo card.

 

[kaizoku]

Man, who knew y’all were so into watches. Did not see that on my steroid underground bingo card.

There have been a few studies showing that elevated testosterone levels in men correlate with an increased desire for status/luxury goods.

Trust the science!

 

[Dirthand]

Man, who knew y’all were so into watches. Did not see that on my steroid underground bingo card.

I know and every once in a while somebody will throw out a wild card and actually talk about steriods or lifting weights!! And that shit throws everything off.... lol

 

[bigdaddyandfriends]

Hey guys I picked up some Ment back in October and I’m finally getting around to using it. The color of the oil is throwing me off a little. It’s almost as dark as tren. Is this normal for ment? Mine are the white tops just like the jano test picture but the oil color is closer to the enanthate version. Any help would be great thanks.

I’ve used MENT at varying doses for a couple years now. I’ve seen it nearly clear to amber like tren… figured it was related to how it was brewed. Currently only using 2mg/day trestolone and 10mg/day tren both E, they are in the ZPHC Ultra Mix I use. Have gone up to 25mg/day MENT (acetate) in the past.

Have not used it yet but I do have some QSC MENT given to me by a friend. It is amber. He said it seems stronger than the 100mg/ml MENT we’ve used from Hunter and APharma. Guess I need to try it lol.

At least at lower doses < 5 mg/day, MENT/trestolone has not affected my blood work at all. Pretty much same with low dose tren, which I also stay on. For my own reasons, I keep my test (and E) physiologic and drive growth with 19-Nor and DHT derivates. The DHTs absolutely do adversely affect my bloods (primarily lipids) even at fairly low doses.

MENT seems to have a variable effect on libido too, kills it for some and drives it up in others. Tren dramatically increases mine, MENT not so much. Perhaps because I am very sensitive to high estrogen.

 

[Pothole92]

I’ve used MENT at varying doses for a couple years now. I’ve seen it nearly clear to amber like tren… figured it was related to how it was brewed. Currently only using 2mg/day trestolone and 10mg/day tren both E, they are in the ZPHC Ultra Mix I use. Have gone up to 25mg/day MENT (acetate) in the past.

At least at lower doses < 5 mg/day, MENT/trestolone has not affected my blood work at all. Pretty much same with low dose tren, which I also stay on. I keep my test physiologic and drive growth with 19-Nor and DHT derivates. The DHTs do adversely affect my bloods (primarily lipids) even at fairly low doses.

Seems to have a variable effect on libido too, kills it for some and drives it up in others.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate it