Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life

[CyniQ]

I don't need another name for it. Your analogy is faulty. An unripe tomato is analogous to an adolescent human. A seed would be more appropriate for a fetus. And well all know what we do with watermelon seeds.

Okay. A seed that has been planted and has germinated then. What are you growing?

 

[Grizzly]

Technically? A tomato plant. In the spirit of your argument, a germinated tomato plant seed is a future tomato in the making. It still ain't a tomato, though.

 

[CyniQ]

Technically? A tomato plant. In the spirit of your argument, a germinated tomato plant seed is a future tomato in the making. It still ain't a tomato, though.

My point is that a process has been initiated that will have a given result. Granted, this is an imperfect world and things do happen. You could slip on a banana peel and meet your doom this afternoon. That would be unfortunate. Some southside Chicago ruffian could gun you down this afternoon. That would be murder.

There are a number of justifications for legalized abortion. Overpopulation for one. I'm not going to adopt any babies, are you? So what happens to the little chitlins when we can't legally kill 'em? How about a Modest Proposal?? Anyone Swift enough to get that one??

 

[Grizzly]

I'll eat 'em if you cook 'em up right. It would be a good way to lessen my Burden.

Don't fuck with the English majors! LOL

 

[joeycrabcakes]

i'm not anti-grizz, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but i cant wait to the day he has a beautiful child and family of his own. I think he'll come back and edit a lot of his posts on this board.

Having a child makes you a different person, whether you like it or not...but dont worry, you will become a better, more well-rounded person.

 

[Grizzly]

i'm not anti-grizz, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but i cant wait to the day he has a beautiful child and family of his own. I think he'll come back and edit a lot of his posts on this board.

Having a child makes you a different person, whether you like it or not...but dont worry, you will become a better, more well-rounded person.

LOL You weren't Swift enough to catch that, eh? I didn't really mean I'd eat a baby. I'd eat an old person, though. Ok, just kidding again. He was referring to Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" in which he sarcastically suggests we eat certain babies to solve whatever the problem of the day was. The "burden" to which I was referring is "The White Man's Burden", also by Swift, IIRC.

 

[Kayz]

Here's my rational argument: permitting abortion to be used as a form of birth control greatly minimizes and cheapens the amount of responsibility we place on teenagers. I know most good parents spend a great deal of time trying to raise their kids "the right way", whatever they feel that may be.

There is really NO reason why a girl should even get pregnant these days (condoms, pills, shots, patches.....etc). So, allowing a 15 year old girl to have her fun on the weekend, just to throw her imminent problem (pregnancy) away defeats the purpose of teaching them responsibility for ones actions.....and this can potentially lead to a lifetime of problems. I know 4 girls that have had abortions...and every single one of them are fucked up because of it. Now there are a lot of people who have kids that are fucked up too....but for different reasons.

There's an old saying "you do the crime, you do the time". Now, I'm not equating a young girl getting pregnant to a serious crime, but the principle the same. If you act irresponsibily, you should be subject to the consequences of those irresponsible actions.

Now, there is a grocery list of things that we could debate here... but that's my take. If you are old enough to have sex and think you are all grown up and have the world figured out....then deal the both the good and the bad. Dont' bitch out and terminate the pregnanacy because you are afraid that this will ruin future weekends.

 

[Grizzly]

Good point, Kayz. However, what good can possibly come from letting a 15 y/o have a baby? They won't graduate. They can't pay for it. They can't do shit. In the end, all that has happened is the child has gotten fucked before ever being born.

Even in terms of the father the kid is fucked. He will have to get a job straight out of HS which, statistically, means he will make 40% less than if he had gone to college. This translates directly into a lower child support payment which, again, dicks over the child.

 

[Grizzly]

Oh yeah! I totally forgot the culture gap between us. You're in hillbillyville where 15y/o, unwed, ungraduated mothers are a dime a dozen and I'm sitting here going, "who the fuck gets pregnant at 15?" LOL Obviously, like manwhore said, geography probably plays a part in your views. My HS class actually grew bigger between freshman year and senior year.

 

[Kayz]

Good point, Kayz. However, what good can possibly come from letting a 15 y/o have a baby? They won't graduate. They can't pay for it. They can't do shit. In the end, all that has happened is the child has gotten fucked before ever being born.

Even in terms of the father the kid is fucked. He will have to get a job straight out of HS which, statistically, means he will make 40% less than if he had gone to college. This translates directly into a lower child support payment which, again, dicks over the child.

...ahh, very wise grasshoppa. That's one of the things on my grocery list!!! However, one could also make the argument that if that girl comes from a family with a strong, positive nucleus (and many aborters..if that's a word....do in fact come from good backgrounds. It's not a rich vs. poor scenario), that the child could have a profound positive impact on that girl and make her "see the light" so to speak.

 

[Kayz]

Oh yeah! I totally forgot the culture gap between us. You're in hillbillyville where 15y/o, unwed, ungraduated mothers are a dime a dozen and I'm sitting here going, "who the fuck gets pregnant at 15?" LOL Obviously, like manwhore said, geography probably plays a part in your views. My HS class actually grew bigger between freshman year and senior year.

...old enough to bleed, old enough to breed.

My freshman year, we had 21 girls in my HS pregnant at the same time (none of them were mine).

 

[Grizzly]

21 FRESHMAN girls? Man, that's pretty fucked up.

Honestly, I'd say that it's more common in affluent communities to have abortions than in poorer communities. I wasn't cool enough to be privy to the good gossip about the people cool enough to be having sex in high school, but my sister was. Supposedly, there was a handful of girls that she says had abortions.

I know my graduating class had 1 girl with a baby and of the 5 or 6 thousand people that walked the halls with me during my 4 years there, I can recall 3 or 4 other babies. So, it's quite likely that the stories are true.

My guess is the parents say, "like, omigod, Buffy! You are soooooo going to ruin our rep at the club. You little hussy, what will your father's boss say about you and your loose legs? We might not even get invited to the next black tie affair. I'm calling the clinic to fix this mess!"

 

[Grizzly]

Off on a tangent there... All of the people I know who had babies young were/are all poor. I spent a large portion of time in Paris, IL. Same deal as where you're at. If you're 17 without a kid, you're behind your friends. The grandmother was poor and knocked up at 15, the mother was poor and knocked up at 15 and now the daughter is poor and knocked up at 15.

Same reason I don't send money to Somalians. The kids are going to grow up and be just as dumb as their parents and have 18 children while still living in the desert and not even being able to feed 3 kids.

 

[Kayz]

...I agree. In my area, there was a girl (about 12 years ago I think) who had the baby in her bathroom, cut the umbilical cord with a pair of kitchen scissors, took the baby out and threw it in a dumpster. She was a big fat bitch, so noone really knew she was pregnant. When the story broke it was so shocking because she lived in a very affluent area.....and these things "don't happen here....they happen on the other end of town". Bullshit, a whore is a whore no matter which way you slice it.

 

[Kayz]

The kids are going to grow up and be just as dumb as their parents and have 18 children while still living in the desert and not even being able to feed 3 kids.

...which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, because the fly swatter factory employs 99% of the country.

 

[CyniQ]

LOL You weren't Swift enough to catch that, eh? I didn't really mean I'd eat a baby. I'd eat an old person, though. Ok, just kidding again. He was referring to Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" in which he sarcastically suggests we eat certain babies to solve whatever the problem of the day was. The "burden" to which I was referring is "The White Man's Burden", also by Swift, IIRC.

LMAO. I knew I could count on you.

very nice post Kayz. There really is no good reason for anyone to have an abortion with all the preventative measures available. I am sort of Pro-Choice... I think a woman can CHOOSE to keep her legs closed any time she wants.

 

[Grizzly]

Maybe we should talk some Moore about a Utopia in which there is no need for abortion "and the pigeons fly ready-roasted". <---- totally different allusion, but, if you get it, then you're quite the student of German philosophy.

 

[CyniQ]

Maybe we should talk some Moore about a Utopia in which there is no need for abortion "and the pigeons fly ready-roasted". <---- totally different allusion, but, if you get it, then you're quite the student of German philosophy.

is that Hauptmann? I thought it was geese??

 

[Grizzly]

Maybe it was an allusion in the text in which I read it. It's Schoepenhaur. Maybe he was being a smartass with the pigeon thing, then. I always wondered who in the hell ate pigeons.

 

[CyniQ]

Maybe it was an allusion in the text in which I read it. It's Schoepenhaur. Maybe he was being a smartass with the pigeon thing, then. I always wondered who in the hell ate pigeons.

Of course Schoepenhaur. That's much more your speed. Hauptmann was a poet/playwright. It may be an old German fable or something, I don't know the origin. But the quote as I know it is something about pigeons fluttering out and geese fly ready-roasted, and larks take wing to our throats smothered in stew. I don't know. I think there are lots of versions of that one.

Here's a Hauptmann quote that I like though...
"Are we not beings who have exhausted the realm of the senses and are athirst for other delights for both our senses and our souls?"

Worked great on chicks... er... when I was doing that sort of thing