Prevent Fat Rebound After T3 Cycle

[Equinob]

I'm running a short T3 cutting cycle, maintaining 400mg Cyp/week, with a calorie deficit, and cardio. Trying to get rid of some stubborn body fat gained after my last bulking cycle, without losing my gains. Running an AI and Hcg as well to eliminate any sides, add natural test to weekly levels, and speed recovery at the end.

My concern is, never having used T3 before is that once I stop the T3 supplement, that I will start putting on fat again as soon as my metabolism slows to normal, and my test returns to normal levels. I'm stepping up to a full 20mcg T3 and intend to step down as well.

Is there any concern here other than simply adjusting my maintenance calories to my new weight at the end of the cycle?

 

[fastasf]

20mcg of T3 isn't going to do anything.

 

[Easyroller]

20mcg t3 is less than your body produces naturally I think you would be better off at a baseline of 40-50mcg possibly up to 75mcg of t3. But you have answered your own question adjust your maintenance calories at the end of your cycle and if you start to gain some weight it will be minimal just throw in small amounts of cardio. Ive also read that t3 production slows down when the body is in a caloric deficit.

 

[Docd187123]

Your body will naturally produce around 20-25mcg of T3 I believe so that low of a dose will end up just being a replacement dose once your thyroid shuts down.

There's no need to taper up unless you want to assess your tolerance but definitely no need to taper down

The thyroid is a pretty resilient gland so it should regain normal function shortly after coming off. You may rebound in some weight gain but it won't be much fat. The number one way to keep your fat gains from coming back is to make sure your diet is on point.

 

[fastasf]

Your body will naturally produce around 20-25mcg of T3 I believe so that low of a dose will end up just being a replacement dose once your thyroid shuts down.

There's no need to taper up unless you want to assess your tolerance but definitely no need to taper down

The thyroid is a pretty resilient gland so it should regain normal function shortly after coming off. You may rebound in some weight gain but it won't be much fat. The number one way to keep your fat gains from coming back is to make sure your diet is on point.

No need to taper? I've been told otherwise by very knowledgeable vets. Do you have evidence to support that? I'm not arguing, I'm just genuinely curious as I've found I respond very well to T3 and plan to use it more in the future.

 

[Docd187123]

No need to taper? I've been told otherwise by very knowledgeable vets. Do you have evidence to support that? I'm not arguing, I'm just genuinely curious as I've found I respond very well to T3 and plan to use it more in the future.

In regards to tapering up, down, or both?

Edit* I too love T3 and respond pretty well to it. The worst side for me was the increased appetite which is ironic considering you use it to lose weight lol. Unfortunately my strength takes a dive on it so I won't be using it much anymore. Maybe the few weeks after a PL meet when I'm recovering from it. Usually ppl take a couple weeks off and easy lifting to ease back into things.

 

[fastasf]

In regards to tapering up, down, or both?

Edit* I too love T3 and respond pretty well to it. The worst side for me was the increased appetite which is ironic considering you use it to lose weight lol. Unfortunately my strength takes a dive on it so I won't be using it much anymore. Maybe the few weeks after a PL meet when I'm recovering from it. Usually ppl take a couple weeks off and easy lifting to ease back into things.

Both

 

[Docd187123]

Both

Taper up: like I said, the first time using it it could be beneficial to taper up as the sides can get somewhat nasty for some. So tapering up to assess your tolerance and findin your sweet spot might be easier for some rather than jumping into a high dose off the bat. I personally never tapered up. Started my first time at 75mcg day 1. Highest I've ran it is 150mcg, again with no taper.

Taper down: serves no purpose I can see whatsoever. Some claim you want to taper down to ease the rebound coming off. You're going to get a slight rebound regardless but this is a lot of glycogen and water rebounding not necessarily fat. Then there's the fact that you're still suppressed even during the tapering down so all you're doing is spending more time at a lower dose instead of a higher dose.

I'm not sure what specifically the vets told you but can you share it here in the thread? It'll be easier to answer your question if I know what you were told. Maybe there's a reason I haven't thought of or maybe they're mistaken. Either way it's easier knowing what claims were made to you by the vets.

 

[Equinob]

20mcg of T3 isn't going to do anything.

There's a lot of conflicting information around the web about T3. For instance, Bill Roberts seems to think a 15mcg dose of T3 will supplement your natural T3 without shutting the thyroid down.

Now what I actually have is: NOVOTHYRAL -- 20 mcg T3, plus 100 mcg T4. And I've been told to dose it like 40-50mcg T3 tabs as the T4 is converting into T3 in my body. Now the conflicting info I have read on the internet suggests T4 conversion is pointless, so I should treat the tabs like 20mcg T3. I'm erring on the side of caution assuming that I'm actually taking 40-50mcg T3.

The reality is, while I've been ramping up, taking half a tab ed, I have definitely felt my body temperature rise, and a bit more amped. Plus I've been losing weight (though that could just be the Test). So depending on which side of the coin you fall on, I've been taking an equivalent of 25mcg T3 with the T4 conversion, or I've been taking 12.5mg.

If it's really been affecting me and not just replacing my natural T3, then I suppose it's supplementing my natural T3 which has not yet been suppressed. That said, yes virtually all I've been reading states I should be using upwards of 100mcg. So now the question is, if I take two tabs, am I taking 40mcg, or 80-100mcg with the T4 conversion?

 

[Equinob]

Taper down: serves no purpose I can see whatsoever. Some claim you want to taper down to ease the rebound coming off...Then there's the fact that you're still suppressed even during the tapering down so all you're doing is spending more time at a lower dose instead of a higher dose.

Is there any truth to the Bill Roberts suggestion that taking 15mcg/day will supplement natural thyroid production without shutting it down? In which case, I could see a smaller dose like this on the back end keeping T3 in the body as the Thyroid begins to recover after being completely suppressed, if that's even an issue. I'm stunned at how little clear info there is around the web about this.

 

[Easyroller]

I would factor in the conversion of t4 to t3 at ~20% but if youre increasing your dose gradually you should be able to feel when the sides get to the point where you no longer want to increase.

 

[Equinob]

I would factor in the conversion of t4 to t3 at ~20% but if youre increasing your dose gradually you should be able to feel when the sides get to the point where you no longer want to increase.

Using your estimate and doing a little math based on the reported half-life of T-3 being 2.5 days, as of today it looks like I've got a dose of around 70mcg exogenous circulating in the body (not including the natural T3/4), which has been the case since about the 4th day. So it's above the normal levels. So I'm theoretically in the 70mcg range suggested.

I think the real question is when is normal T3/T4 shut down? If it takes a significant amount the normal 20-25mcg then smaller doses could theoretically add to the natural levels, so instead of 20mcg replacing it, I get 50-55mcg. Again the internet is not helpful, I've read that it takes as much as 100mcg before the Thyroid shuts down natural production.

And this brings me back to stepping down my dose at the end. If it takes about 2 weeks for the Thyroid to recover fully, which creates a double edged problem -- if I have no T3 in my bloodstream, then my metabolism is going to slow down over the next two weeks, which means I have to cut back my calories to keep from gaining fat. Then again, if I cut back my calories and I have extremely low body fat, then I won't have enough to support my musculature. However, if I drop my exogenous T3 to a level that doesn't suppress the Thyroid (say 12.5-15mcg) then theoretically, I will keep a moderate level of T3 to power my metabolism, as my Thyroid ramps up production. So if I continue a very low dose for the first week of recovery the thyroid might start getting the levels back to 20-25mcg, and then I drop the 12.5 to 0mcg, and the thyroid is producing around 10-12mcg, and then hopefully continues ramping up to the full 20-25mcg in the second week. If other reports I've read on the internet which suggest it might take up to a month, then I'm even more concerned about those first few weeks where the T3 is very low.

 

[Easyroller]

I didnt read your whole post. I think youre over thinking this whole thing way too much. If youre making progress dont worry about it (if it ain't broke don't fix it)

 

[fastasf]

Taper up: like I said, the first time using it it could be beneficial to taper up as the sides can get somewhat nasty for some. So tapering up to assess your tolerance and findin your sweet spot might be easier for some rather than jumping into a high dose off the bat. I personally never tapered up. Started my first time at 75mcg day 1. Highest I've ran it is 150mcg, again with no taper.

Taper down: serves no purpose I can see whatsoever. Some claim you want to taper down to ease the rebound coming off. You're going to get a slight rebound regardless but this is a lot of glycogen and water rebounding not necessarily fat. Then there's the fact that you're still suppressed even during the tapering down so all you're doing is spending more time at a lower dose instead of a higher dose.

I'm not sure what specifically the vets told you but can you share it here in the thread? It'll be easier to answer your question if I know what you were told. Maybe there's a reason I haven't thought of or maybe they're mistaken. Either way it's easier knowing what claims were made to you by the vets.

@mands instructed me to taper up by 25mcg every 4 to 7 days as well as taper down by 25mcg every 4 to 7 days. That is per an IFBB pro coach I believe he said in his PM to me. I'm not saying either of you is right or wrong because I don't know. I'm just genuinely curious to know the correct protocol.

 

[Docd187123]

@mands instructed me to taper up by 25mcg every 4 to 7 days as well as taper down by 25mcg every 4 to 7 days. That is per an IFBB pro coach I believe he said in his PM to me. I'm not saying either of you is right or wrong because I don't know. I'm just genuinely curious to know the correct protocol.

Tapering up or down will not hurt you by any means but I don't think it benefits you either, unless you happen to be extremely sensitive to T3 and need slow changes to find your sweet spot. I did not need tapering up personally. I also think it wastes time in a way since you spend more time at doses lower than you plan on running. If you want to do it it's completely up to you. Again, it's not like tapering is going to harm you.

 

[roastdawg]

The way I've heard it explained is that all t3 does to facilitate weight loss is by burning extra calories. So in order to avoid weight gain after discontinuing you'd have to adjust your caloric intake down.

 

[Docd187123]

Is there any truth to the Bill Roberts suggestion that taking 15mcg/day will supplement natural thyroid production without shutting it down? In which case, I could see a smaller dose like this on the back end keeping T3 in the body as the Thyroid begins to recover after being completely suppressed, if that's even an issue. I'm stunned at how little clear info there is around the web about this.

I think suppression is dose dependent so a 15mcg dose may not completely shut down your thyroid but think it will suppress it somewhat.

 

[mands]

Tapering up or down will not hurt you by any means but I don't think it benefits you either, unless you happen to be extremely sensitive to T3 and need slow changes to find your sweet spot. I did not need tapering up personally. I also think it wastes time in a way since you spend more time at doses lower than you plan on running. If you want to do it it's completely up to you. Again, it's not like tapering is going to harm you.

I even taper my t4 Doc.

mands

 

[Equinob]

The way I've heard it explained is that all t3 does to facilitate weight loss is by burning extra calories. So in order to avoid weight gain after discontinuing you'd have to adjust your caloric intake down.

Thanks. My concern now about just taking my calorie intake down is that I'll be coming off AAS too, to maintain LBM since t3 reportedly burns calories indiscriminately. So if I'm going to reduce my calories during the two weeks it takes my thyroid to ramp up production again, I should probably extend the test for at least a week after I discontinue the T3. That way I don't have a sudden calorie drop supporting my LBM along with a big drop in test, and lose the gains I've been running gear with t3 to preserve -- unless that's not really a problem? The HCG should ensure my test doesn't drop too low anyway.

Also, if I up my cardio for the first two weeks, that might take care of a slow metabolism as natural T3 returns without necessarily lowering calories supporting LBM?

 

[roastdawg]

Thanks. My concern now about just taking my calorie intake down is that I'll be coming off AAS too, to maintain LBM since t3 reportedly burns calories indiscriminately. So if I'm going to reduce my calories during the two weeks it takes my thyroid to ramp up production again, I should probably extend the test for at least a week after I discontinue the T3. That way I don't have a sudden calorie drop supporting my LBM along with a big drop in test, and lose the gains I've been running gear with t3 to preserve -- unless that's not really a problem? The HCG should ensure my test doesn't drop too low anyway.

Also, if I up my cardio for the first two weeks, that might take care of a slow metabolism as natural T3 returns without necessarily lowering calories supporting LBM?

So you're discontinuing aas use and pct'ing? If so it's gonna be tough imo to achieve your goals of keeping lbm and body fat where they're at. A lot depends on where you're at in comparison to genetic potential. Best bet probably is to come up with a plan based on your body type. If you gain muscle and fast easily I'd focus on keeping carbs low and keeping the fat off. If you have a naturally fast metabolism I'd focus on getting the calories you need to keep your lbm gains. Good luck!