Perma Cycle Until Bloodwork Says No?

[adrenalytic]

Just like the title says, what are your thoughts on running really high doses year-round as long as bloodwork parameters and appropriate scans are done regularly and come back clean?

Now I know Meso is a harm reduction site (for which I'm very thankful) so your first instinct might be to say "no way, you gotta give your body a break" to which I counter "but why? All vitals are functioning normally."

Or maybe you don't think that way idk. Chase Irons put out a video today about why he never comes off cycle and why you shouldn't either and he makes some compelling arguments. So I just wanted to get a feel for what others think about it. Here's the video if you're interested.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p5JiBicjo

 

[RockyP]

Even professional bodybuilders will cruise for periods during the year. I think the devil is in the details in terms of what your body can handle, what you consider a cruise vs. blast, etc. Some compounds can be run at low dosages for long periods of time, others not so much. The way I look at it is that if I know I can't push 110% of all the other (more important) aspects of this sport (recovery / sleep, training, diet) 365 days per year, then I certainly don't need more than HRT 365 days per year. I'm not saying the diet gets loose or anything, but there will be times when you need to deload training, adjust carbs / calories (for gaining or massing), or when your recovery isn't great / shit happens in life where your regimen cannot be perfect all the time. For all those reasons I see HRT level cruises being advantageous. And to know that young, genetically gifted, professional bodybuilders also cruise (their cruise is likely what my blast is but nevermind that) for weeks on end makes me think I'm on the right track.

As to Chase, I actually like his content for the most part. But he does remind me a bit of the story of the man who jumped from the 100th floor window, and on his way down he passed the 35th floor and looked around and shouted "So far so good!" It's possible Chase will be around for a long time and he has the genetics to handle what he does. It's also possible that he ends up like Rich Piana or the countless other lives lost to abuse of these drugs (if he's actually telling the truth about his usage - he does strike me as a real salesman and it would not surprise me in the least if these numbers were markedly inflated). Only time will tell.

 

[hexagonal]

Do you believe that bloodwork and "the appropriate scans" are the full measure of every aspect of your health impacted by your use of AAS? That there are no other negative impacts to your body outside of what they reveal?

I don't, so I would never base my cycle length purely on them.

 

[adrenalytic]

Do you believe that bloodwork and "the appropriate scans" are the full measure of every aspect of your health impacted by your use of AAS? That there are no other negative impacts to your body outside of what they reveal?

I don't, so I would never base my cycle length purely on them.

So what are they? How do you gauge these phantom aspects? Feels? Mirror visuals?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic (well, maybe a little, but in the spirit of good discussion), more of a dive into user mentality.

 

[IndividualMan]

So what are they? How do you gauge these phantom aspects? Feels? Mirror visuals?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic (well, maybe a little, but in the spirit of good discussion), more of a dive into user mentality.

realistically you want to get MRIs, full blood panels including tumor markers, Biopsies, etc. to really cover all your bases. but thats overkill, just cruise from time to time, give your body time to recover and you should be alright.
Not healthy, but alright.

 

[adrenalytic]

realistically you want to get MRIs, full blood panels including tumor markers, Biopsies, etc. to really cover all your bases. but thats overkill, just cruise from time to time, give your body time to recover and you should be alright.
Not healthy, but alright.

But I guess the counter argument (and really the point of this thread) is assuming you have the means and motivation to do all those things to track your health, is it ok to blast year round? If not, why?

 

[Eddie.]

Bloodwork might be fine but brain function, cognition, adrenals and a number of other functions will get a hit. Being perma at 1000ng/dl with good bloodwork is not the same with being perma at 3500ng with still good bloodwork. Also, besides muscles organs have androgen receptors too iirc.

On the other hand, I've seen couple guys doing stupid shit and being "ok" after 15-20 years of use and never going below 500mg. Pretty sure though mentally they're not in a great place.

 

[urmumsurdad30]

Not sure if this counts as a perma blast but I stay on 600mg Total AAS for like 9 to 10 months out of the year and drop off cold turkey for the remainder. Done this since maybe 2024? No issues yet (touchwood) but that's not too say I'll be fine all the way thru. Bloods and scans come out all good.

Different to Chase who blasts 2g+ year round but I still classify myself as a perma blaster because I dont drop down to TRT levels and whatnot.

Also, I find that less is most definitely more for me. And, duration > intensity.

 

[adrenalytic]

Bloodwork might be fine but brain function, cognition, adrenals and a number of other functions will get a hit. Being perma at 1000ng/dl with good bloodwork is not the same with being perma at 3500ng with still good bloodwork. Also, besides muscles organs have androgen receptors too iirc.

On the other hand, I've seen couple guys doing stupid shit and being "ok" after 15-20 years of use and never going below 500mg. Pretty sure though mentally they're not in a great place.

To be clear, this is not something I'm personally considering. I am not competing at a pro level therefore it's unnecessary for me. But if I was, this is something into which I would put serious thought.

You bring up an interesting point regarding mental health. Let's add that to the annual check ups. Let's assume our fictitious perma blaster also sees a mental health professional regularly, get's brain function/cognition evaluations, etc.

 

[juicebro]

Even professional bodybuilders will cruise for periods during the year. I think the devil is in the details in terms of what your body can handle, what you consider a cruise vs. blast, etc. Some compounds can be run at low dosages for long periods of time, others not so much. The way I look at it is that if I know I can't push 110% of all the other (more important) aspects of this sport (recovery / sleep, training, diet) 365 days per year, then I certainly don't need more than HRT 365 days per year. I'm not saying the diet gets loose or anything, but there will be times when you need to deload training, adjust carbs / calories (for gaining or massing), or when your recovery isn't great / shit happens in life where your regimen cannot be perfect all the time. For all those reasons I see HRT level cruises being advantageous. And to know that young, genetically gifted, professional bodybuilders also cruise (their cruise is likely what my blast is but nevermind that) for weeks on end makes me think I'm on the right track.

As to Chase, I actually like his content for the most part. But he does remind me a bit of the story of the man who jumped from the 100th floor window, and on his way down he passed the 35th floor and looked around and shouted "So far so good!" It's possible Chase will be around for a long time and he has the genetics to handle what he does. It's also possible that he ends up like Rich Piana or the countless other lives lost to abuse of these drugs (if he's actually telling the truth about his usage - he does strike me as a real salesman and it would not surprise me in the least if these numbers were markedly inflated). Only time will tell.

You clearly don't know many pros lol

 

[Slowww]

This is a terrible idea… an ounce of prevention and all that. Why wait til you have problems when you can totally avoid them and keep growing at a rapid rate.

Jk bro let it fucking rip. But also blast and don’t let bloods get bad. Good blood work and blasting dont have to be mutually exclusive. My blood on blast as long as im not on tren looks almost identical as trt lmao. Idk what that means but it is what it is. The only thing that ever changes is ALT/AST really. But this also means not blasting orals, not blasting tren for a long time, and keeping tren conservative, not taking ibuprofen or over the counter atuff, always eating clean, always doing cardio, always getting steps in, always checking blood pressure, blood glucose, etc etc and consistent blood monitoring, every 12 weeks or so. Also doing ECG, and so on, to make sure heart is normal

 

[adrenalytic]

This is a terrible idea… an ounce of prevention and all that. Why wait til you have problems when you can totally avoid them and keep growing at a rapid rate.

Jk bro let it fucking rip. But also blast and don’t let bloods get bad. Good blood work and blasting dont have to be mutually exclusive. My blood on blast as long as im not on tren looks almost identical as trt lmao. Idk what that means but it is what it is. The only thing that ever changes is ALT/AST really. But this also means not blasting orals, not blasting tren for a long time, and keeping tren conservative, not taking ibuprofen or over the counter atuff, always eating clean, always doing cardio, always getting steps in, always checking blood pressure, blood glucose, etc etc and consistent blood monitoring, every 12 weeks or so

Aha, check one for the "Go For It" bucket.

 

[Slowww]

Aha, check one for the "Go For It" bucket.

Also Im not saying insane blasts, or that I do this myself, because I don’t hahahaha but since no one else made an argument for it here we go

 

[BigDadd7]

But I guess the counter argument (and really the point of this thread) is assuming you have the means and motivation to do all those things to track your health, is it ok to blast year round? If not, why?

Sure, if you have the means and motivation, then you should do it

 

[abz94]

Hell no, there are things that bloodwork won't reveal.

 

[adrenalytic]

Hell no, there are things that bloodwork won't reveal.

Such as?

 

[Slowww]

Such as?

Specific heart growth and problems with heart beat & wave irregularities for one, arteries and plaque deposits. If you’re blasting and abusing estrogen control meds, also there are problems here in regards to bone density, at least this is where I’ve seen people who blast a lot going to snap city

 

[RockyP]

You clearly don't know many pros lol

You clearly know zero and are talking out of your ass. Go LARP somewhere else. Grown men are tying to have a discussion.

 

[adrenalytic]

Specific heart growth and problems with heart beat & wave irregularities for one, arteries and plaque deposits. If you’re blasting and abusing estrogen control meds, also there are problems here in regards to bone density, at least this is where I’ve seen people who blast a lot going to snap city

Right, but all those things have corresponding tests available. Remember, in our hypothetical thought experiment we're assuming our guy takes every available medical precaution and all his scans/draws come back clean and within range.

 

[Slowww]

Right, but all those things have corresponding tests available. Remember, in our hypothetical thought experiment we're assuming our guy takes every available medical precaution and all his scans/draws come back clean and within range.

Right but he said blood work, not tests, maybe Im getting bogged down in semantics haha