OEP LABS Domestic

[AllGoodThings]

So I have Test Undecanoate on deck and more in route. What does everyone want it dosed at and what carrier would you prefer it.

I know 250mg/ml is standard, but I'd love to see 300mg/ml in Castor. We get nearly everything in MCT and GSO these days, it would be nice to get something a little different, and Castor with undecanoate is like peanut butter and jelly, they just belong together.

 

[sionnach]

Wrong for test U it showed almost double the time of release with that specific ester. Especially if pinned 2/3ml at once

Castor oil has many beneficial properties too, it's a great carrier oil one of the best except for the thickness (that can be fixed anyway)

Let's say it's two days to absorb MCT, double would be 4 days, that's still a drop in the bucket compared to the 30 days for the ester. If you have different data I'd love to take a look (not pulling a mUh SoUrCe pLz, I'm genuinely interested).

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Castor 300mg/ml
Can be easily done 35% BB to keep it easily to inject.

Still 15% less BB than original Bayer nebido recipe

Id rather keep it at 40% and over to thin that mfer out

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I know 250mg/ml is standard, but I'd love to see 300mg/ml in Castor. We get nearly everything in MCT and GSO these days, it would be nice to get something a little different, and Castor with undecanoate is like peanut butter and jelly, they just belong together.

I've done 350. Just not a realistic concentration for TRT imo

 

[Sampei]

Id rather keep it at 40% and over to thin that mfer out

I can draw with a slin pin with 35% BB but I agree 40/45% is still perfectly doable and doesn't give any issue whatsoever

 

[Sampei]

Let's say it's two days to absorb MCT, double would be 4 days, that's still a drop in the bucket compared to the 30 days for the ester. If you have different data I'd love to take a look (not pulling a mUh SoUrCe pLz, I'm genuinely interested).

It's not about the absorption is the release, I need to pull the study done on test U with different carrier oil, it's easy to find online tho. Castor oil gave something like 15+ days more of steady release vs other carrier oils.

But this is about the half-life and you need a Depot so if you are injecting just 1ml probably not a massive difference.

So for 1 injection a week doesn't change much if you do once every two or three weeks difference is important

 

[Photon]

4ml of castor oil injected into 1 butt-cheek (250mg/ml)
vs
8ml of teaseed oil injected into both butt-cheeks (125mg/ml)

Half life difference,
(33.9+/-4.9 vs 20.9+/-6.0 days)

Intramuscular injection of testosterone undecanoate for the treatment of male hypogonadism: phase I studies - PubMed

The longer half-life and the smaller injection volume make TU in castor oil a strong candidate for further applications in substitution therapy and in trials for male contraception.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

TU in a thin oil like MCT+EO that the Chinese use is def not going to give you a h/l of 30d.

 

[AllGoodThings]

Let's say it's two days to absorb MCT, double would be 4 days, that's still a drop in the bucket compared to the 30 days for the ester. If you have different data I'd love to take a look (not pulling a mUh SoUrCe pLz, I'm genuinely interested).

It's not about the absorption is the release, I need to pull the study done on test U with different carrier oil, it's easy to find online tho. Castor oil gave something like 15+ days more of steady release vs other carrier oils

I was able to find this comparing tea seed oil and Castor;


Intramuscular injection of testosterone undecanoate for the treatment of male hypogonadism: phase I studies.

Behre HM1, Abshagen K, Oettel M, Hübler D, Nieschlag E.
Author information


Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

In the search for long-acting testosterone preparations suited for substitution therapy of hypogonadal men, testosterone undecanoate (TU) dissolved in either tea seed oil or castor oil was investigated.
DESIGN:

In study I, 1000 mg TU in tea seed oil (125 mg/ml) were injected in equal parts into the gluteal muscles of seven hypogonadal men. In study II, 1000 mg TU in castor oil (250 mg/ml) were injected into one gluteal muscle of 14 patients.
RESULTS:

In comparison with published data on testosterone enanthate, most widely used for i.m. injections, the kinetic profiles of both TU preparations showed extended half-lives and serum levels not exceeding the upper limit of normal. The castor oil preparation had a longer half-life than TU in tea seed oil (33.9+/-4.9 vs 20.9+/-6.0 days (mean pm S.E.M.)).
CONCLUSION:

The longer half-life and the smaller injection volume make TU in castor oil a strong candidate for further applications in substitution therapy and in trials for male contraception.


Abstract
In the search for long-acting testosterone preparations suited for substitution therapy of hypogonadal men, testosterone undecanoate (TU) dissolved in either tea seed oil or castor oil was investigated.In study I, 1000 mg TU in tea seed oil (125 mg/ml) were injected in equal parts into the gluteal muscles of seven hypogonadal men. In study II, 1000 mg TU in castor oil (250 mg/ml) were injected into one gluteal muscle of 14 patients.In comparison with published data on testosterone enanthate, most widely used for i.m. injections, the kinetic profiles of both TU preparations showed extended half-lives and serum levels not exceeding the upper limit of normal. The castor oil preparation had a longer half-life than TU in tea seed oil (33.9+/-4.9 vs 20.9+/-6.0 days (mean pm S.E.M.)).The longer half-life and the smaller injection volume make TU in castor oil a strong candidate for further applications in substitution therapy and in trials for male contraception.

 

[Sampei]

I was able to find this comparing tea seed oil and Castor;


Intramuscular injection of testosterone undecanoate for the treatment of male hypogonadism: phase I studies.

Behre HM1, Abshagen K, Oettel M, Hübler D, Nieschlag E.
Author information


Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

In the search for long-acting testosterone preparations suited for substitution therapy of hypogonadal men, testosterone undecanoate (TU) dissolved in either tea seed oil or castor oil was investigated.
DESIGN:

In study I, 1000 mg TU in tea seed oil (125 mg/ml) were injected in equal parts into the gluteal muscles of seven hypogonadal men. In study II, 1000 mg TU in castor oil (250 mg/ml) were injected into one gluteal muscle of 14 patients.
RESULTS:

In comparison with published data on testosterone enanthate, most widely used for i.m. injections, the kinetic profiles of both TU preparations showed extended half-lives and serum levels not exceeding the upper limit of normal. The castor oil preparation had a longer half-life than TU in tea seed oil (33.9+/-4.9 vs 20.9+/-6.0 days (mean pm S.E.M.)).
CONCLUSION:

The longer half-life and the smaller injection volume make TU in castor oil a strong candidate for further applications in substitution therapy and in trials for male contraception.


Abstract
In the search for long-acting testosterone preparations suited for substitution therapy of hypogonadal men, testosterone undecanoate (TU) dissolved in either tea seed oil or castor oil was investigated.In study I, 1000 mg TU in tea seed oil (125 mg/ml) were injected in equal parts into the gluteal muscles of seven hypogonadal men. In study II, 1000 mg TU in castor oil (250 mg/ml) were injected into one gluteal muscle of 14 patients.In comparison with published data on testosterone enanthate, most widely used for i.m. injections, the kinetic profiles of both TU preparations showed extended half-lives and serum levels not exceeding the upper limit of normal. The castor oil preparation had a longer half-life than TU in tea seed oil (33.9+/-4.9 vs 20.9+/-6.0 days (mean pm S.E.M.)).The longer half-life and the smaller injection volume make TU in castor oil a strong candidate for further applications in substitution therapy and in trials for male contraception.

Exactly, this is the study

 

[sionnach]

Thanks for the data guys. Counterintuitive on the surface but super interesting. I can't be the only one that's been operating under the theory that the time for hydrolyzation of the ester chain being length-dependent was the limiter and not the release of the ester from the oil into the tissue. It'd be cool if someone did the reverse and tested short esters like cyp (or even prop) in castor vs undecanoate in MCT just to compare the release/hydrolyzation ratios to the studies you linked.

 

[Photon]

Thanks for the data guys. Counterintuitive on the surface but super interesting. I can't be the only one that's been operating under the theory that the time for hydrolyzation of the ester chain being length-dependent was the limiter and not the release of the ester from the oil into the tissue. It'd be cool if someone did the reverse and tested short esters like cyp (or even prop) in castor vs undecanoate in MCT just to compare the release/hydrolyzation ratios to the studies you linked.

It's not so much the oil per say but the thickness of the oil.
4ml of thick castor into 1 muscle...How long do you reckon it'll take to be absorbed vs 4ml of MCT? (I have no idea)

 

[sionnach]

It's not so much the oil per say but the thickness of the oil.
4ml of thick castor into 1 muscle...How long do you reckon it'll take to be absorbed vs 4ml of MCT? (I have no idea)

Even assuming vascularity and motion of the muscle are constant, I still couldn't guess. That's a hyperspecific piece of info, we're talking absorption in tissues that weren't built to absorb of materials that were never intended to be there.
Need more data. Come up with a procedure while I work on getting us funded.

 

[OEP LABS]

I was able to find this comparing tea seed oil and Castor;


Intramuscular injection of testosterone undecanoate for the treatment of male hypogonadism: phase I studies.

Behre HM1, Abshagen K, Oettel M, Hübler D, Nieschlag E.
Author information


Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

In the search for long-acting testosterone preparations suited for substitution therapy of hypogonadal men, testosterone undecanoate (TU) dissolved in either tea seed oil or castor oil was investigated.
DESIGN:

In study I, 1000 mg TU in tea seed oil (125 mg/ml) were injected in equal parts into the gluteal muscles of seven hypogonadal men. In study II, 1000 mg TU in castor oil (250 mg/ml) were injected into one gluteal muscle of 14 patients.
RESULTS:

In comparison with published data on testosterone enanthate, most widely used for i.m. injections, the kinetic profiles of both TU preparations showed extended half-lives and serum levels not exceeding the upper limit of normal. The castor oil preparation had a longer half-life than TU in tea seed oil (33.9+/-4.9 vs 20.9+/-6.0 days (mean pm S.E.M.)).
CONCLUSION:

The longer half-life and the smaller injection volume make TU in castor oil a strong candidate for further applications in substitution therapy and in trials for male contraception.


Abstract
In the search for long-acting testosterone preparations suited for substitution therapy of hypogonadal men, testosterone undecanoate (TU) dissolved in either tea seed oil or castor oil was investigated.In study I, 1000 mg TU in tea seed oil (125 mg/ml) were injected in equal parts into the gluteal muscles of seven hypogonadal men. In study II, 1000 mg TU in castor oil (250 mg/ml) were injected into one gluteal muscle of 14 patients.In comparison with published data on testosterone enanthate, most widely used for i.m. injections, the kinetic profiles of both TU preparations showed extended half-lives and serum levels not exceeding the upper limit of normal. The castor oil preparation had a longer half-life than TU in tea seed oil (33.9+/-4.9 vs 20.9+/-6.0 days (mean pm S.E.M.)).The longer half-life and the smaller injection volume make TU in castor oil a strong candidate for further applications in substitution therapy and in trials for male contraception.

My dude is dropping knowledge

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the data guys. Counterintuitive on the surface but super interesting. I can't be the only one that's been operating under the theory that the time for hydrolyzation of the ester chain being length-dependent was the limiter and not the release of the ester from the oil into the tissue. It'd be cool if someone did the reverse and tested short esters like cyp (or even prop) in castor vs undecanoate in MCT just to compare the release/hydrolyzation ratios to the studies you linked.

Wtf did you call me?

 

[AllbrandNew]

Wtf did you call me?
View attachment 346671

I think they called you a 'length dependent counterproductive ester chain'. At least that's what my smart people decoder tells me.

Edit: I'd be mad too if I knew what it meant!

 

[OEP LABS]

The idea I'm about to propose is something I've done in the past with other compounds.

What about 75% Castor and 25%MCT or GSO. Thick but not too thick. Can also cut back on the BB a little bit and do it at 300mg/ml

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The idea I'm about to propose is something I've done in the past with other compounds.

What about 75% Castor and 25%MCT or GSO. Thick but not too thick. Can also cut back on the BB a little bit and do it at 300mg/ml

funny thing is, castor needs about the same BB as MCT. I never know if mixing oil will screw with the increased half life of castor.

This is 20% BB and what each oil+ ester can hold per ml.

I think alot of us debunked the BB PIP myth, I know how we had our conversations in the background of our opinions in the past

Structural Insights and Intermolecular Energy for Some Medium and Long-Chain Testosterone Esters - PMC

Testosterone (17β-Hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one) is the primary male anabolic-androgenic steroid. The crystal structures of two medium and two long esterified forms of testosterone, including enanthate, cypionate, decanoate and undecanoate, were ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[OEP LABS]

funny thing is, castor needs about the same BB as MCT. I never know if mixing oil will screw with the increased half life of castor.

This is 20% BB and what each oil+ ester can hold per ml.

I think alot of us debunked the BB PIP myth, I know how we had our conversations in the background of our opinions in the past

View attachment 346698

Structural Insights and Intermolecular Energy for Some Medium and Long-Chain Testosterone Esters - PMC

Testosterone (17β-Hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one) is the primary male anabolic-androgenic steroid. The crystal structures of two medium and two long esterified forms of testosterone, including enanthate, cypionate, decanoate and undecanoate, were ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yessir I do remember our convo on BB and brewing. Thank you my dude for sharing this study

 

[sionnach]

Wtf did you call me?
View attachment 346671

I was roleplaying as @readalot
Anyway, back to dick jokes.

 

[sionnach]

they

DiD yOu JuSt aSsUmE mY gEnDeR?!?!