MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

need advice from the elders! opinion on cycle and length!

PONGGO

PONGGO

New Member
Alright so first off I'll put the stats. I know I'm gonna get slapped for it, but just know I did oodles of research, and reading, and talking to many guys before ever touching AAS. Also, I am majoring in biochem minoring in kineasology and studying to become an endocrinologist so I am decently educated on the effects of hormone imbalances.

Stats:
20yo
5' 9.5"
184 lbs
7.4% bf
Cycles run: one 12 week cycle of test e @ 600mgs/week finished the last 6 weeks of cycle with var @ 50 mgs a day dosed 25mgs in AM, 25mgs PM. Adex @.5mgs EOD, after about 3 weeks in had to bump adex up to .5mgs ED. Pct was started 2 weeks after last pin of test e and looked like this:
1500ius hcg m,w,f for three weeks with nolva @20mgs/day. After finishing hcg I had accumulated some gyno (not bad for the majority of people, I have small nips and glands never got huge, but definitely way bigger than they'd ever been) there was also some minor lactation. After first three weeks I finished last three like this: nolva @20mgs/day, aromasin @ 20mgs/day for only two weeks. Nolva was continued for one week by itself. My nips were very puffy in the last week and being as my baseline prolactin was pretty high in my pre cycle bloods, I knew this was more than likely prolactin. Gyno gland was down to size of a bb and there was minor fluid release. I took prami for last week with nolva at .25mgs/day and am still using it one week after. I was not able to get bloods during cycle or before pct (god damn state I live in doesn't allow private clinics) but I am taking another trip to MN over Thanksgiving to get my bloods. As far as hormonal sides go i am in great shape. Full erections, acne is gone, water retention down, and nips are great. Also feeling great in the gym again as far as energy goes.

My questions are: do you think I should stay off a little longer than 18 weeks being as I am so young? As long as my hormones have come back to almost norms when I test them Later on I'm good to go right? Also, should I continue prami a little longer? Should I taper down first? Such as lowering mgs or going EOD or E3D? and last question is, how do you all feel about 8 week cycles? I am against blasting and cruising until I am older there are just too many things that could go wrong and I wouldn't have the extra change to fix them. But I just kind of figured with 8 weeks my endocrine system wouldn't be so taxed starting back up. If I did an 8 week I would definitely use test prop. Any opinions and responses would be great! Thanks guys!
 
Am I reading correctly, you waited 2 weeks after last pin then ran HCG for three weeks? And you want to be an endo? Consider another career option, I hear clown college is a solid choice.

Stop fucking with things you don't understand. HCG is HPTA suppressive, you don't run it during PCT. Simple fact easily determined from 5 minutes of reading in the PCT forum.

So to answer your question, 18 weeks is way too short a time to wait before your next cycle. I suggest you wait 50 years.
 
Awh man harsh. I'm just here for everyone's advice. I don't want any of this type war bs. No one's perfect and I admit I have a lot to learn that's why I'm here lol. I listened to a very experienced user as far as pct went so that's why I waited rather than doing it during cycle or in the two weeks before pct. but yes I understand that it is hpta suppressive which is why I had aromasin in the mix as well. Thanks for the response. Any other tips?
 
Oh and I don't mean to be a dick head back but tecchhhniicaallllyyy the use of tomoxifen alongside hcg stops it's suppressive nature. Sooo.... ya... and with the three weeks of aromasin/nolva I recovered well. Like I am rlly confused as to why you can't help contribute to the brotherhood of this sport. I thought this was gonna be like a little family of lifters lol. And bro I already recovered great. So dont bash me when I did IN FACT RECOVER GREAT. Only lost 6 pounds (water and glycogen stores) and of course that extra hardness and vascualrity. But now I'm back to making the slower natty gains. So maybe we can squash that and discuss the use of these great compounds? As bros?
 
Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.

PMID: 7419679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
PONGGO said:
Oh and I don't mean to be a dick head back but tecchhhniicaallllyyy the use of tomoxifen alongside hcg stops it's suppressive nature. Sooo.... ya... and with the three weeks of aromasin/nolva I recovered well. Like I am rlly confused as to why you can't help contribute to the brotherhood of this sport. I thought this was gonna be like a little family of lifters lol. And bro I already recovered great. So dont bash me when I did IN FACT RECOVER GREAT. Only lost 6 pounds (water and glycogen stores) and of course that extra hardness and vascualrity. But now I'm back to making the slower natty gains. So maybe we can squash that and discuss the use of these great compounds? As bros?
Click to expand...
Did you get blood work on cycle and pre bloods showing you recovered great? Or do you just feel ok?
 
Fair point lol. As I explained I'm not able to get them easily so I won't have my bloods to compare to my pre cycle bloods for a couple weeks. But as far as signs of high estro/low test I am showing none. I.e. acne, water retention, erection abnormalities, gyno, puffy nips, etc.
 
Please don't say you recovered fine without bloods to show, gives kids like you the idea they can do whatever and be fine.

The reason we give people a hard time is because 9 times out of 10 they come here and think they know everything because they have read about it. Also everyone that comes here saying they are a in school to be a doctor or a biochemist or blah blah blah are usually full of it from my years of being on forums. You are 20 man, you might have someone teaching you "doubt it because you wouldn't be here" you might be a biochemist, but your not ready for aas.

When you can take advice from someone that has done it not just read about it come back and try again. You can't go off studies because no one is the same and a lot of studies contradict themselves. I could keep going man but I don't have time, you should get bloods showing you are healthy and bloods on cycle. If you can't don't post you recovered fine because you have no clue and you are just guessing.
 
Hey bro I completely agree! I don't plan on cycling again until I move next summer where I will be able to monitor myself much more on AAS. But I am in fact trying to get good advice from you guys which is why I asked for critiques how to taper prami cycle length etc. That's why I'm here bro! So any advice or knowledge on the matter would be GREATLY appreciated.
 
Oh and as far as someone teaching me I do in fact have a guy but I'm here because I think It could be done better. He is a fan of blasting and cruising and I am tooo young for that. So yes, once again, your help would be appreciated.
 
It's hard for someone to tell you what you will need, like I said everyone is different and again this is why bloods are important. For us to tell you what pct you will need to run and how much or ai would just be us guessing off what we use.

I know what I use but who's to say it would work for you, it probably wouldn't. I don't need .5 mg adex eod and I run test higher than you. I don't see a need in running hcg that high either just my opinion tho, prami you can take it and come down to .25mg then stop.
 
Thank you so much bro. And ya I def think I used too much hcg. My nuts came back the day after my first pin and after the fourth shot of hcg my nips rlly flared. Next cycle I plan to use hcg in the last 4 weeks of my cycle at a lower dose instead. I am only going to do 8 week cycles I think. Any advice for a pct after running:
Test prop 100mgs EOD
Tren ace 50mg EOD (may bump up to 75-100 depending on sides and blood results half way thru)
Anavar last 4 weeks at 50mg/day

I am getting my glands removed in January so I'm not worried about prolactin/progesterone gyno, but should I still use prami or caber while on tren? Also, when would u advise I start the hcg?
 
lightspan said:
Am I reading correctly, you waited 2 weeks after last pin then ran HCG for three weeks? And you want to be an endo? Consider another career option, I hear clown college is a solid choice.

Stop fucking with things you don't understand. HCG is HPTA suppressive, you don't run it during PCT. Simple fact easily determined from 5 minutes of reading in the PCT forum.

So to answer your question, 18 weeks is way too short a time to wait before your next cycle. I suggest you wait 50 years.
Click to expand...
Can you explain the above statement please? Plenty of protocols that incorporate HCG into PCT.

mands
 
stop with the bro shit and saying you want to be in the brotherhood , your a 20 yr old kid and we are adults, if I call you anything it would be a punk , your trying to be nice and I appreciate that but you do not belong here , you are not old enough to do cycles period . train hard and eat right , come back in 3 or 4 yrs and we will be more than happy to help you get jacked
 
ironwill1951 said:
stop with the bro shit and saying you want to be in the brotherhood , your a 20 yr old kid and we are adults, if I call you anything it would be a punk , your trying to be nice and I appreciate that but you do not belong here , you are not old enough to do cycles period . train hard and eat right , come back in 3 or 4 yrs and we will be more than happy to help you get jacked
Click to expand...
Nah I don't try to be nice I just am. I am far ahead of my time and I realize that all evil comes from the pride of man. Which is why I will continue to suck mine up to end conflict. I truly do want the world together and I'll start here with bodybuilding! Sorry dont me to go too philosophical on u lol. But I know i will face consequences later on in life for my early usage. However, I am very intune with my body training and nutrition. And for me to go pro this is what it takes. I plan to be real with my usage and try to restore the golden era of bodybuilding. I want guys to walk into the gym and be able to discuss everything and not have hate. I know u guys are trying to look out for me but TRUST ME I have accepted all consequences I may face. I do appreciate the response. I wish u luck bro.
 
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