Mixing tesamorelin and hgh

[Corduroy]

Tirz has got a lot more science behind it reducing inflammation than any of those research chems.

Musculoskeletal inflammation? Maybe, but the anti-inflammatory effect of tirz might merely be a result of weight reduction or fat reduction in the metabolically unhealthy, in which case it wouldn't work as an anti-inflammatory for everyone.

 

[Ghoul]

Musculoskeletal inflammation? Maybe, but the anti-inflammatory effect of tirz might merely be a result of weight reduction or fat reduction in the metabolically unhealthy, in which case it wouldn't work as an anti-inflammatory for everyone.

This is a widespread misconception, though somewhat understandable because you have to untangle the benefits that are often similar to those from weight loss.

The mechanism of action for the anti-inflammatory effects are systemic via GLPs down regulating of vagal nerve sensitivity, which acts as a "probe", signaling the brain of the presence of endotoxin in the body. By lowering this "presence of infection" signal, the brain reduces the systemic inflammation it induces as a reaction.

Localized inflammation is reduced by direct effects on numerous tissues.. Many cells have GLP receptors which, when agonized exhibit anti-oxidative effects, like the endothelium lining blood vessels for instance, preventing plaque buildup, or in nerves, in which neurogenesis is stimulated, in addition to the neuroprotective impact of anti-oxidation.

GLP-1 treatment protects endothelial cells from oxidative stress-induced autophagy and endothelial dysfunction - PMC

Endothelial dysfunction and excessively stimulated autophagy, often caused by oxidant injury or inflammation, will lead to atherosclerosis development and progression in diabetes. The aim of this study is to investigate the protective effect of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of Glucagon-Like Peptide-1 on Oxidative Stress and Nrf2 Signaling - PMC

Oxidative cellular damage caused by free radicals is known to contribute to the pathogenesis of various diseases such as cancer, diabetes, and neurodegenerative diseases, as well as to aging. The transcription factor nuclear factor erythroid ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"It is now widely accepted that GLP-1 has multiple functions beyond glucose control in various tissues and organs including brain, kidney, and heart. GLP-1 and GLP-1 receptor agonists are known to be effective in many chronic diseases, including diabetes, via antioxidative mechanisms."

 

[songsofpyramids]

how the hell is this not a basic addon for almost everyone here.

I take .5mg sema for an autoimmune issue and it’s fixing both that and my ptsd connected tinnitus. To me it is quite literally a miracle drug.

Maybe, but the anti-inflammatory effect of tirz might merely be a result of weight reduction or fat reduction in the metabolically unhealthy, in which case it wouldn't work as an anti-inflammatory for everyone.

I started sema at 175lbs, I’m now 172, and it’s fixing my inflammatory autoimmune condition and potentially brain insulin insensitivity (connected to tinnitus). It is life-changing for me.

 

[Nidus]

I take .5mg sema for an autoimmune issue and it’s fixing both that and my ptsd connected tinnitus. To me it is quite literally a miracle drug.



I started sema at 175lbs, I’m now 172, and it’s fixing my inflammatory autoimmune condition and potentially brain insulin insensitivity (connected to tinnitus). It is life-changing for me.

Started last week with 2.5 Tirza and went up to 5mg today. Not noticing much but my fasted blood glucose is already going down the past 4 days, fasted glucose of 80 is something i never really had before.

 

[Ghoul]

Started last week with 2.5 Tirza and went up to 5mg today. Not noticing much but my fasted blood glucose is already going down the past 4 days, fasted glucose of 80 is something i never really had before.

In my experience it's really common for males to feel nothing on Tirz until 7.5, even 10 sometimes(rare).

It's an advantage. Higher doses are correlated with more of the non-appetite suppressive effects, and experiencing appetite suppression at low doses hinders the ability to handle larger doses.

 

[Nidus]

In my experience it's really common for males to feel nothing on Tirz until 7.5, even 10 sometimes(rare).

It's an advantage. Higher doses are correlated with more of the non-appetite suppressive effects, and experiencing appetite suppression at low doses hinders the ability to handle larger doses.

Yeah, not feeling much from the appetite suppression. I might wait once i am at 5mg a week and just see how it goes for 2-3 weeks until i up the dose too quickly

 

[CraneKraken]

Yeah, not feeling much from the appetite suppression. I might wait once i am at 5mg a week and just see how it goes for 2-3 weeks until i up the dose too quickly

Have you considered micro dosing the Tirz when you do titrate up? If you prefer to be cautious while raising your dose this might make it easier on you. Maybe do the 2.5 on Sunday then do another 2.5 on Wednesday. Eventually titrating up to 3 times a week. Just a thought.

I imagine you'll notice a big difference once you do get up to 7.5mgs - 10mgs. I've been on Tirz pretty much since July, with a 3 week break last month. At one point I ran it up to 20mgs per week, which was intolerable for me and not necessary for my goals. I'm also on 6iu's of GH taken before bed every night so I don't really use the Tirz for appetite suppression but rather for the increased insulin sensitivity -although it does keep me from any midnight snacking that could halt the benefits of my GH dose. I recently began micro dosing the 2.5mgs three times a week. My hope has been to keep it more stable in my blood stream and in doing this I've noticed a big difference with everything from glucose levels to anti-inflammatory benefits. I can't say whether this is due to the micro doses or whether it's from titrating up but having some experience on Tirz now I do feel more comfortable with multiple doses over the single dose every 6 days.

 

[Ghoul]

If you're in this for the long term, don't microdose. When immunogenicity develops to the point there's a noticeable drop in efficacy, it usually happens very slowly, often over a year or more. As bad as our UGL peptides are in this regard, Increasing "exposure events", even low dose, can make it significantly worse.

It's the reason why many vaccines are given as multiple doses with an interval in between.

My two cents.

 

[dick_starbuck]

As far as inflammation is concerned: since starting reta my chronic and debilitating IBD has been greatly improved.

 

[Corduroy]

This is a widespread misconception, though somewhat understandable because you have to untangle the benefits that are often similar to those from weight loss.

The studies you referenced were done in vitro and with GLP-1, not incretin agonist medications, so it's still speculation at this point. Yes, there are mechanisms suggestive of additional antioxidant/anti-inflammatory activity, but the big question is whether or not these are clinically relevant compared to the effects of fat loss alone.

For instance, if the anti-inflammatory benefits are 95% from fat loss and 5% from GLP-1 receptor agonism, then I would question the utility of incretin agonists for inflammation in a lean, metabolically healthy bodybuilder.

 

[Corduroy]

If you're in this for the long term, don't microdose. When immunogenicity develops

This study shows the opposite effect for exenatide – *greater* antibody formation from once weekly dosing and *less* antibodies from twice daily dosing.

So in some cases (and this is as close as we can get since exenatide is a GLP med) it appears a “tolerance” phenomenon, akin to allergy shots, actually works in favor of more frequent dosing when it comes to immunogenicity.

Clinical relevance of anti-exenatide antibodies: safety, efficacy and cross-reactivity with long-term treatment - PubMed

Low-titre anti-exenatide antibodies were common with exenatide treatment (32% exenatide BID, 45% exenatide QW patients), but had no apparent effect on efficacy. Higher-titre antibodies were less common (5% exenatide BID, 12% exenatide QW) and within that titre group, increasing antibody titre...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Scout23358]

Have you considered micro dosing the Tirz when you do titrate up? If you prefer to be cautious while raising your dose this might make it easier on you. Maybe do the 2.5 on Sunday then do another 2.5 on Wednesday. Eventually titrating up to 3 times a week. Just a thought.

I imagine you'll notice a big difference once you do get up to 7.5mgs - 10mgs. I've been on Tirz pretty much since July, with a 3 week break last month. At one point I ran it up to 20mgs per week, which was intolerable for me and not necessary for my goals. I'm also on 6iu's of GH taken before bed every night so I don't really use the Tirz for appetite suppression but rather for the increased insulin sensitivity -although it does keep me from any midnight snacking that could halt the benefits of my GH dose. I recently began micro dosing the 2.5mgs three times a week. My hope has been to keep it more stable in my blood stream and in doing this I've noticed a big difference with everything from glucose levels to anti-inflammatory benefits. I can't say whether this is due to the micro doses or whether it's from titrating up but having some experience on Tirz now I do feel more comfortable with multiple doses over the single dose every 6 days.

Quick question: what kind of problems did the 20mg/week give you? Did you lose or continue losing at the 20mg, or were you at that dose for only a short period before you had to lower it? Curious, thanks!

 

[Scout23358]

This study shows the opposite effect for exenatide – *greater* antibody formation from once weekly dosing and *less* antibodies from twice daily dosing.

So in some cases (and this is as close as we can get since exenatide is a GLP med) it appears a “tolerance” phenomenon, akin to allergy shots, actually works in favor of more frequent dosing when it comes to immunogenicity.

Clinical relevance of anti-exenatide antibodies: safety, efficacy and cross-reactivity with long-term treatment - PubMed

Low-titre anti-exenatide antibodies were common with exenatide treatment (32% exenatide BID, 45% exenatide QW patients), but had no apparent effect on efficacy. Higher-titre antibodies were less common (5% exenatide BID, 12% exenatide QW) and within that titre group, increasing antibody titre...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Interesting study. Am I reading correctly when it also notes that antibodies peak early on (6-22 weeks) and then gradually decline?

 

[songsofpyramids]

For instance, if the anti-inflammatory benefits are 95% from fat loss and 5% from GLP-1 receptor agonism, then I would question the utility of incretin agonists for inflammation in a lean, metabolically healthy bodybuilder.

There is a prolific amount of data showing C-reactive protein drops in people using GLP drugs long before substantial weight loss occurs. This has been observed in both pre-clinical studies and clinical trials.

Anti-inflammatory benefits of semaglutide: State of the art - PMC

Individuals with diabetes often have chronic inflammation and high levels of inflammatory cytokines, leading to insulin resistance and complications. Anti-inflammatory agents are proposed to prevent these issues, including using antidiabetic ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Frontiers | Anti-inflammatory effect of semaglutide: updated systematic review and meta-analysis

Background:The anti-inflammatory effect could be one of the mechanisms by which semaglutide reduces cardiovascular risk in patients with type 2 diabetes mell...

www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | Molecular mechanisms of semaglutide and liraglutide as a therapeutic option for obesity

Obesity, a chronic global health problem, is associated with an increase in various comorbidities, such as cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes mellitus, ...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Corduroy]

There is a prolific amount of data showing C-reactive protein drops in people using GLP drugs long before substantial weight loss occurs.

Since statin drugs also reduce CRP, do you recommend them as a treatment for musculoskeletal inflammation? I certainly don't.

 

[Ghoul]

The studies you referenced were done in vitro and with GLP-1, not incretin agonist medications, so it's still speculation at this point. Yes, there are mechanisms suggestive of additional antioxidant/anti-inflammatory activity, but the big question is whether or not these are clinically relevant compared to the effects of fat loss alone.

For instance, if the anti-inflammatory benefits are 95% from fat loss and 5% from GLP-1 receptor agonism, then I would question the utility of incretin agonists for inflammation in a lean, metabolically healthy bodybuilder.

Apply whatever standard you like. From clinical observation to triple blind peer reviewed high powered studies involving tens of thousands.

Most AAS and other BB compounds are used on the basis of feels, their bro science observations, and at best, a working hypothesis as to their mechanism of action.

There are enough well established positives, like improved insulin sensitivity, and millions of patient years demonstrating a far better safety profile than just about anything BBs inject, that even a minor benefit on balance makes a weekly dose a net positive, imo.

The growing mountain of much less well established, but still evidence based, hypothesis developed over the last 30 years are just the icing on the cake if even 2% of are unequivocally established.

 

[Corduroy]

Apply whatever standard you like. From clinical observation to triple blind peer reviewed high powered studies involving tens of thousands.

Most AAS and other BB compounds are used on the basis of feels, their bro science observations, and at best, a working hypothesis as to their mechanism of action.

There are enough well established positives, like improved insulin sensitivity, and millions of patient years demonstrating a far better safety profile than just about anything BBs inject, that even a minor benefit on balance makes a weekly dose a net positive, imo.

The growing mountain of much less well established, but still evidence based, hypothesis developed over the last 30 years are just the icing on the cake if even 2% of are unequivocally established.

I'm just as excited about these meds as anyone, especially since I've lost 25 pounds of fat on tirzepatide. I'm just skeptical of them being useful for musculoskeletal inflammation in the non-obese. Although just an anecdote of course, I haven't seen any benefit for my low-grade knee arthritis or chronic low back pain from tirzepatide.

 

[songsofpyramids]

Since statin drugs also reduce CRP, do you recommend them as a treatment for musculoskeletal inflammation? I certainly don't.

Statins main side effects are muscle-relatated side effects like muscle pain and even myopathy. So, no, I wouldn’t recommend a statin. Semaglutide does not have these complications. Recent research into semaglutide also show that it might have muscle preserving impact on the body via improved insulin sensitivity and reduced inflammation. It also appears not to impair muscle maintenance in any meaningful way.

Clinical effectiveness of semaglutide on weight loss, body composition, and muscle strength in Chinese adults - PubMed

In a real-world setting, semaglutide can reduce the weight and fat of obese patients while effectively maintaining muscle mass and muscle strength.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I would look into the research of this before rejecting it out of hand. My PCP has me on it at 172lbs around 15% bodyfat because it was by far the safest option for me to reduce CRP. In 3-4 weeks I will have bloodwork to see impact after 3 months. In terms of feels I would say it has fostered a situation where I feel less inflamed than I have felt in years, with a complete cessation of all the major symptoms that drove me to be willing to try such an experimental treatment. The cherry on top is a drastic reduction in ptsd related tinnitus that has been fucking haunting me for 18 years. Something I never would have dreamed glp1 could even help with.

They’ll have to pry this compound from my cold dead hands at this point.

Edit - I also want to say that initially I was very fucking skeptical of glp1 drugs, even cautioning my friends from using them. I now sing their praises to the mountain tops. I’m even trying to get my friend of 25 years, who has unfortunately become an alcoholic after a series of traumas, to hop on so maybe he can find some peace. Also didn’t see your post above so I see you’re just skeptical and not rejecting, so I’m sorry I said that above.

 

[CraneKraken]

Quick question: what kind of problems did the 20mg/week give you? Did you lose or continue losing at the 20mg, or were you at that dose for only a short period before you had to lower it? Curious, thanks!

I'm 6'1" and genetically I have an athletic build. I'm most comfortable and look best when I'm around 210 - 220lbs. Throughout my life my body fat has been low -under 10%- but I had an injury and some life circumstances last winter which contributed to me ballooning up to a very unhealthy 255lbs. So I got some Tirz with an order of oils and Clen. I titrated up rather quickly as I was so horrified with how out of shape I got. I was on 20mgs for maybe a week but it became too difficult for me to eat anything other than protein shakes. I was lifting again so I needed to eat a well rounded diet as well as lose the excess weight I gained. I just couldn't do that on 20mgs of Tirz. The acid reflux was also unbearable, even when all I was consuming was protein shakes. I found 15mgs more tolerable for me and I still got the weight loss benefits. I'm now back to a very lean 220lbs so I'm still using the Tirz but at a much lower dose and that's pretty much for the GH I'm using.

My current girlfriend has some thyroid issues -prescribed T3 for it- and I got her going on the Tirz. The most she's taken is 10mgs but she's lost 40lbs in about 5 months bouncing between 7.5 and 10mgs. She hasn't felt many side effects but does have periods where she doesn't feel pleasure in the things she once enjoyed, which can happen while on GLP's. Ghoul can go into much more detail regarding this side effect than I can. It's something to keep an eye on though.

 

[Scout23358]

I'm 6'1" and genetically I have an athletic build. I'm most comfortable and look best when I'm around 210 - 220lbs. Throughout my life my body fat has been low -under 10%- but I had an injury and some life circumstances last winter which contributed to me ballooning up to a very unhealthy 255lbs. So I got some Tirz with an order of oils and Clen. I titrated up rather quickly as I was so horrified with how out of shape I got. I was on 20mgs for maybe a week but it became too difficult for me to eat anything other than protein shakes. I was lifting again so I needed to eat a well rounded diet as well as lose the excess weight I gained. I just couldn't do that on 20mgs of Tirz. The acid reflux was also unbearable, even when all I was consuming was protein shakes. I found 15mgs more tolerable for me and I still got the weight loss benefits. I'm now back to a very lean 220lbs so I'm still using the Tirz but at a much lower dose and that's pretty much for the GH I'm using.

My current girlfriend has some thyroid issues -prescribed T3 for it- and I got her going on the Tirz. The most she's taken is 10mgs but she's lost 40lbs in about 5 months bouncing between 7.5 and 10mgs. She hasn't felt many side effects but does have periods where she doesn't feel pleasure in the things she once enjoyed, which can happen while on GLP's. Ghoul can go into much more detail regarding this side effect than I can. It's something to keep an eye on though.

Yeah, I'm on 10mg and that reflux and anhedonia are no joke. Especially the lack of pleasure/enjoyment.
I don't know how you handled 20mg. Must have been brutal. Nice results and good for you. Keep up the good work!