Main Reason Bush/Cheney Won

[black0ut]

Yeah we talked about this before Kayz, you're in a different situation than I am. I'm not arguing with people who's reasons are backed by personal gain... i'm arguing about those who's reglious agenda is their drive for voting Bush.

You take a different look at things than I do. I live in New York though, so different things apply to me.

 

[Kayz]

Yeah we talked about this before Kayz, you're in a different situation than I am. I'm not arguing with people who's reasons are backed by personal gain... i'm arguing about those who's reglious agenda is their drive for voting Bush.

You take a different look at things than I do. I live in New York though, so different things apply to me.

Very true. I agree with that.

 

[mrpg13]

That has zero to do with nothing. Who cares who authored it, Bush signed it. Bush made it an issue in his State of the Union address. Bush's father who made it illegal to begin with. Don't listen to the media, just look at the facts.

So if you don't believe the media, where are you getting your truth from? Bob Drugen and Rush Limbaugh? As someone said earlier, zelots on either side scare me.

So just because GWB is against steroids I shouldn't have voted for him???? You have to be joking. There are way more important issues in this world than my personal choice to use gear. Besides, it's not like we can't get it anyway.

 

[Fat Freddy]

...and I see an economy on the rebound gaining strenght, I see jobs being created after a recession compouned by the acts on 9/11, and I see a foreign policy in which we are finally standing up for ourselves and not allowing other countries to dictate our national security.

Except for Israel, of course. But that could open up an entirely new argument.

Based on just how bad the last four years have been from any non-partisan, realistic standpoint, I'd venture to say that you had your mind made up long before Bush's first term even began. Honestly, you sound like a Bush/Cheney '04 commercial.

I'm not trying to add fuel to anybody's futile fire. It's just an observation from a completely middle-of-the-road, unaffiliated nature-of-the-times voter.

 

[Kayz]

Except for Israel, of course. But that could open up an entirely new argument.

Based on just how bad the last four years have been from any non-partisan, realistic standpoint, I'd venture to say that you had your mind made up long before Bush's first term even began. Honestly, you sound like a Bush/Cheney '04 commercial.

I'm not trying to add fuel to anybody's futile fire. It's just an observation from a completely middle-of-the-road, unaffiliated nature-of-the-times voter.

Taht's just the thing though: it is a difference of opinion. I was actually a McCain supporter and voted for him during the primaries.

However, from my vantage point, we are doing pretty good. My family is better off financially, our business is doing better than it ever has, and we are finally fucking doing somethign about terrorism.

It is just a matter of perspective. For example, you say I sound like a Bush/Cheney commercial because I see things going pretty good. Well, I see your doom and gloom negativity as a Kerry commercial.

not trying to start a quarrel, but just making a point that it is a matter of opinion. My opinion is not wrong just because it differs from yours.

 

[Sensational]

Both Kerry and Bush presented the doom and gloom commercials...with mainly Dick Cheney doing the spouting for the Bush campaign. It is an old trick by Karl Rove, keep the main candidate positive while the veep ticket lashes out.

On the topic of christianity and politics, I do think alot of people vote based on faith. That being said I am a born again christian, and voted for Kerry. Why? That is the topic for another thread.

I do believe that most americans do not think through things thoroughly, and that is a bipartisan comment(meaning both right and left wing).

Why is that? I don't know...but it is dangerous...Hitler said in Mein Kompf "What good fortune for those in power that people do not think"~Sensational

 

[DaRooster]

We feel bad about sex, about success(money is the root of all evil) power, hell we even feel bad about feeling good.
What can you expect? We where told from our earliest days that we are "bad", we accept that we were born in sin. We have been taught to feel shame for being born less than perfect.

This alleged state of imperfection in which we are said to have come into this world is what our religiounists have the gall to call original sin. And it is original sin- but not ours. It is the first sin to be perpetualted upon us by a world which knows nothing of a God if it thinks that God would-or could-create ANYTHING imperfect.
Some religions have built upwhole theologies around this misconception. And that is what it is: a mis-conception. For anything God concieves- all that which God gives life- is perfect; a perfect reflection of perfection itself, made in the image and likness of God!
Yet in order to justify the idea of a punitive God, our religions needed to create something for God to be angry about. So that even those who lead exemplary lives somehow need to be "saved". If they don't need to be saved from themselves, then they need to be saved from thier own built-in imperfections. So (these religions say) you'd better do something about all this- and fast-or you'll go straight to HELL!!!!

This in the end may do nothing to mollify a weird, vindictive, angry God, but it does give life to weird, vindictive, angry religions. Thus do religions perpetuate themselves... Thats why the holy roman church has survived 2000 years... the power of fear.

 

[vikings]

My point was Both canidates do have a value system based on thier morals. I just don't think Bush should be the poster boy for Christian fundamentalists.
A few years ago it was considered liberal to think Women should vote or smoke cigerettes. Funny how liberal views change.

George Bush has countlessly lied to the American People and taken us to War including myself 1.5 yrs ago, and his father in 1991 during desert storm/shield, and his agenda is selfish and evil. When it comes to morals, I agree with many of you that morals are suppose to form our boundaries and give us fortitude. George Bush's agenda was to capture the vote and he did that by taking advantage of the "morals idea". I am not speaking on John Kerry's behalf so much either, but I believe that you simply judge people on their words and by what they do. George Bush is cynnical, arrogant, and extremely out of touch with people who aren't in the higher tax brackets.
Also, Blame the evangelicals for wanting everything from Abortion to gay rights in this country for being so important above other issues that could change the soveriegnty of this country. I am a full gospel preacher, and a practicing Christian, but the evangelical movement is also selfish and totally concerned about their agenda and wallets.

I do not believe that gays and abotion is the most important issues nor do I think gay marriage and abortion and stem cell research is so immoral. Note: I do not marry gays, nor do I recommend abortion, I am for stem cell research. These issues just drown out the most important aspects of making our country stronger and more soveriegn. What about the abuse of the Native Indian, the African American, not hand outs but civil rights and jurisdiction of humanity. The African American is still considered as a portion of a human being(3/5) according to the Constitution. Nation founded on Godly principles, yea right, To their own gratification and Agendas.

This country does need God and his goodness. All I can say for President Bush, this country, and its condition is that If God spares this country of severe judgment and breakdown, then he (God) owes sodom and gommorah an apology....
Another note this countires situation is not just the doing of any one leader but this country was and has become more demonic, and evil just as it was when FREEDOM TAKERS took it upon themselves to begin enslaving Africans, and there LAND.

Note: I am not partial to any race or colr of people because God see's no color, I can see things more visible according to the true history that we have archived. BUSH got in office due to a great racial divide, and the non-minorities(WHITES) that did vote for Kerry voted for him because they do recognize the lies and deciet that is continuing to ruin our country....

I am sure I will have many that will disagree but time will definitely reveal God's wisdom, and his judgment. Not only my opinion but als some facts included.......

Guys and gals , we have to put our selfish ways of looking at things aside and consider how the Almighty God envisions our lives , and how he planned them to be even for this country. Now that President Bush is in office I consider it an honor to be able to go to God and lift he and his family in prayer so that he can make the right, conscious, and helpful decisions, that is what we all need. Not just demos or repubs



peace

 

[vikings]

yo rooster , we can only get the stinch of Original sin removed by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. That is by accepting him as Lord and Savior of our existence. He became the blood sacrifice for what lambs , goats , and turtledoves couldn't any longer perform. He is the ultimate sacrifice for our state that the so called Adam put us in. Also, byt the cross he opened up clear lines betwwen we and God so that in any condition we could get a prayer through to be either vindicated or acknowledged.


That's the awesomeness behind our nature and the nature of Christ.



peace

rooster

 

[black0ut]

This is precisely what i was speaking about. Did you base your vote on this kind of stuff? The fact that Bush put religion in his decisions, where as Kerry was goign to handle everything on an equal plane? Do you know this stuff happened? Can you show me a video of all this? No, you read it in a book, and had it repeated to you every Sunday. You have faith in it, and that's the best you can have, faith, because you have no honest clue if it's real or not. I have faith in it, but I don't let the possibility rule my choices, and anyone who does is an absolute fool. You can show me a video of what's going on in Iran, or with the american money market, or for that matter ANYTHING that's going on today, and THAT will be what I make my choice on, what is PROVEN.

yo rooster , we can only get the stinch of Original sin removed by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. That is by accepting him as Lord and Savior of our existence. He became the blood sacrifice for what lambs , goats , and turtledoves couldn't any longer perform. He is the ultimate sacrifice for our state that the so called Adam put us in. Also, byt the cross he opened up clear lines betwwen we and God so that in any condition we could get a prayer through to be either vindicated or acknowledged.


That's the awesomeness behind our nature and the nature of Christ.



peace

rooster

 

[vikings]

Hey bro, you didn't understand the post if that is all you got, some of you all respond with gunz blazing and there is no need. I voted for John Kerry because of his optimisstic ability to create change for all Americans not just the rich ones!

Not at all true Blackout, faith is based on just that the unseen because everyone will not see for themselves but historical FACTS, and traditions , and accounts from a multitude of areas will explain most things you might be ignorant of, or error of. Just like you know that Napolean did what he did, kubai and Genghas Kahn had an empire, and The Roman empire existed, well why couldn't the many proven facts of Christianity be real. Hey blackout, Jesus said both in king James Scriptures and in the original ones that he came to be an offence to many, so I am not offende or surprised at your feelings. I actually agreed with your initial post but God has his place in all of existent lives. FACT bro, and one day you'll see clearer if you dont already. The gospel ws not friendly to everyone that is why they crucified him.


peace bro

 

[black0ut]

I do believe in god, and yes religion has a place in our daily lives. BUT, it doesn't have a place in politics. It's the church's job to enforce the rights and penalties of of religion, it's the president's job to enforce the rights and penalties of America. So many people have different religous beliefs, that to try to include all of them in a presidential choice would be insane.

Religion itself is a fantastic thing. Whether or not Jesus is the son of god, or was born from a virgin womb, makes no difference. The fact he created a system of beliefs that give people a sense of right and wrong DOES make him a savior. People question every decision they make, because just the idea of going to hell scares them. BUT, when it comes to America, the president should have to let go of religion when it comes to making decisions.. his agenda should have no hint of religious intent. So many ignorant americans voted because he is very religous, and doesn't believe that change is necesary with the evolving world.

Bush is already annoying me... The government should be able to invest our social security money? Kiss my ass President Bush, keep that money safe so when I'm able to collect it, it's there. Oh yeah, he was going to stop the "backdoor draft" he implemented in '01 once he was elected right? Yeah right, he's moved foward with plans to set up for an ACTUAL draft (even though it'll never happen). After the election, he spoke with ambassadors of Mexico and Canada asking that if it happened, for them to turn away people of draft age who were seeking entrance into their respective countries. Also this past week he spoke with some friends from home, asking if they'd like to be administrators of the draft board in respective states. Yeah, go BUSH!, this countries going to go far over the next 4 years

Hey bro, you didn't understand the post if that is all you got, some of you all respond with gunz blazing and there is no need. I voted for John Kerry because of his optimisstic ability to create change for all Americans not just the rich ones!

Not at all true Blackout, faith is based on just that the unseen because everyone will not see for themselves but historical FACTS, and traditions , and accounts from a multitude of areas will explain most things you might be ignorant of, or error of. Just like you know that Napolean did what he did, kubai and Genghas Kahn had an empire, and The Roman empire existed, well why couldn't the many proven facts of Christianity be real. Hey blackout, Jesus said both in king James Scriptures and in the original ones that he came to be an offence to many, so I am not offende or surprised at your feelings. I actually agreed with your initial post but God has his place in all of existent lives. FACT bro, and one day you'll see clearer if you dont already. The gospel ws not friendly to everyone that is why they crucified him.


peace bro

 

[Kayz]

The government should be able to invest our social security money? Kiss my ass President Bush, keep that money safe so when I'm able to collect it, it's there.

That's just the thing............it WILL NOT BE THERE WHEN YOU RETIRE!!!! That is the way SS is designed. Those of us paying in now, are supporting those collecting SS today!!!

If you can't invest your money better than the government, then send it to me...I'll invest it for you. I'm not being a smart ass, I'll honestly invest it for you and make you more than SS ever will.

 

[black0ut]

Well, I understand we pay for social security now, but SS works based on the idea that we pay for it now, and the people after us pay for it blah blah. Either way, it's guaranteed we will have a certain amount of money in there, because of the amount of workers now, and the amount expected to be there within 50 years. If the money is invested, it has the chance to multiply, and make it easier on everyone, BUT it also has the chance to fail. Now, if this president had made tons of investment choices with our tax dollars, and had a proven track record of high gains, i would back this, but I really don't need to state the obvious about the president. I just don't want my money to possibly be wasted. If it did fail, us workers would have to cover the debt and difference, and who knows how things would be in 30 years. I must admit, they're saying SS will be dried up in 20 years, but they said the same thing 20 years ago when my parents were dealing with it.

 

[vikings]

Kayz, blackout, I agree totally with you bro, but Blackout you have these evangelicals that have very selfish motives in terms of helping the President go along with their agenda, an they think because God dealt with Israel politically and in War times that he will deal with us the same.Maybe or maybe not, but they deem their issues to be so high but many of them are as prejudice as prejudice can be. That's right a divided leader, faith, and people.

I somewhat agree with the idea that God will deal with a nation of people, whether it be politics or lifestyles. The whole point is here is that this country needs Spiritual guidance on that level so we can make clearer , moral and precise decisions. The problem with our country is that we have Heads or leaders that mislead and represent us to such a degree it trickles downhill to the little mans desire to get over and decieve. So Bros, God is very much in this thing. I promise you both that I didn't always feel this way.

Remember this, During Israels reign when King David( israel president) sinned the way he did, It took NAthan the prophet( a type of religious leader or christian) To help him get on track with God. That entails too much for this thread. So the way our country has fallen in terms of morality, deceit, and respect, We will have to pay the piper at some point. Nobody can just keep kicking there own countrymen around, bullying other smaller countries, and lie to the American people. Lets go on, Racism, sexual immorality at its extreme, lost childern on drugs and excessive pornograghy. Something has got to happen

Just as God deals with everyone of us personally he also deals with us as a people, not a white and black people but humanity itself.

Blackout, once again, I do believe that our President should ultimately focus on mending bridges and fences sort of speak, and helping to better the Nation, not with a religious tone but with an instinctive and intuitive tone.


peace out guys

 

[black0ut]

I agree, when making a personal decision, thinking of god when choosing the right or wrong is a definate. It's when a president decides what people want, abortion allowed/banned, stem cell research, etc... based on the original principles of christianity that is unfair.

Kayz, blackout, I agree totally with you bro, but Blackout you have these evangelicals that have very selfish motives in terms of helping the President go along with their agenda, an they think because God dealt with Israel politically and in War times that he will deal with us the same.Maybe or maybe not, but they deem their issues to be so high but many of them are as prejudice as prejudice can be. That's right a divided leader, faith, and people.

I somewhat agree with the idea that God will deal with a nation of people, whether it be politics or lifestyles. The whole point is here is that this country needs Spiritual guidance on that level so we can make clearer , moral and precise decisions. The problem with our country is that we have Heads or leaders that mislead and represent us to such a degree it trickles downhill to the little mans desire to get over and decieve. So Bros, God is very much in this thing. I promise you both that I didn't always feel this way.

Remember this, During Israels reign when King David( israel president) sinned the way he did, It took NAthan the prophet( a type of religious leader or christian) To help him get on track with God. That entails too much for this thread. So the way our country has fallen in terms of morality, deceit, and respect, We will have to pay the piper at some point. Nobody can just keep kicking there own countrymen around, bullying other smaller countries, and lie to the American people. Lets go on, Racism, sexual immorality at its extreme, lost childern on drugs and excessive pornograghy. Something has got to happen

Just as God deals with everyone of us personally he also deals with us as a people, not a white and black people but humanity itself.

Blackout, once again, I do believe that our President should ultimately focus on mending bridges and fences sort of speak, and helping to better the Nation, not with a religious tone but with an instinctive and intuitive tone.


peace out guys

 

[vikings]

Blackout, I totally agree with you


unfair to the people, the Constitution was made for you and I

 

[Kayz]

Well, I understand we pay for social security now, but SS works based on the idea that we pay for it now, and the people after us pay for it blah blah. Either way, it's guaranteed we will have a certain amount of money in there, because of the amount of workers now, and the amount expected to be there within 50 years. If the money is invested, it has the chance to multiply, and make it easier on everyone, BUT it also has the chance to fail. Now, if this president had made tons of investment choices with our tax dollars, and had a proven track record of high gains, i would back this, but I really don't need to state the obvious about the president. I just don't want my money to possibly be wasted. If it did fail, us workers would have to cover the debt and difference, and who knows how things would be in 30 years. I must admit, they're saying SS will be dried up in 20 years, but they said the same thing 20 years ago when my parents were dealing with it.

But Bush is proposing a pseudo-IRA account in which YOU control a certain portion of your retirement funds that normally would have went into a failing SS system.

It would be YOUR responsibility to invest this money, not Bush's. At the age of 24, I'm all for that.

 

[vikings]

But Bush is proposing a pseudo-IRA account in which YOU control a certain portion of your retirement funds that normally would have went into a failing SS system.

It would be YOUR responsibility to invest this money, not Bush's. At the age of 24, I'm all for that.

Look Kayz, blackout and others

Personally I could welcome reform or change no problem , just point me in the right direction. But, what happens if we have another near fatal stock market crash or a crash itself, our market is the most unstable around the globe according to Wall street themselves.

I agree with you also Kayz I just smell a big bushrat

lol

 

[Kayz]

Look Kayz, blackout and others

Personally I could welcome reform or change no problem , just point me in the right direction. But, what happens if we have another near fatal stock market crash or a crash itself, our market is the most unstable around the globe according to Wall street themselves.

I agree with you also Kayz I just smell a big bushrat

lol

There are always inherent risks when it comes to significant reform. However, look at welfare reform under Clinton (the one thing he did do right IMO). Everyone said "oh my gosh, how can he put limits on the amount of time you can spend on welfare....he's gonna throw these needy people out on the street". But none of that happened. Taht was considered "radical" by liberal standards, and it has done a lot of good getting these people "out of the system". There is still mcuh to be done regarding welfare reform, but it was a start.

However, what is the alternative?? The status quo, which is do nothing and leave it alone??

It follows the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". But, SS is broken!!! Economists and analysts everywhere have stated repeatedly that SS will be bankrupt in a few decades....so how long do we wait???