Low test level questions

[DrMCM]

46 yo, 6'0'', 188lbs, BF~12%, good diet, good wo habits.

Frustrated with lack of gains in gym, started winny only cycle 10 days ago. (This was in another thread so please no debates on this cycle.) However, before I started this cycle, I had complete bloodwork done. I got that back today with some surprising results, as follows:

Testosterone, total 224 (241-827)
FSH 1.1 (1.4-18.1)
LH 1.3 (1.5-9.3)
DHT 19 (25-75)
Estradiol (extraction) 11 (10-50)
Prolactin 7 (2-18)
Cortisol 21.6 test done at 8 AM. High but in range.

I guess with those numbers I should be glad I make gains at all? Maybe these aren't low enough to be concerned about? I don't know what to think.

I did one cycle of Winstrol and Deca for 6 weeks and one cycle of Winny only for 6 weeks 20 years ago, with fantastic results. then stopped training for a few years and lost all those gains.

I took some otc andro stack something or other for 6 weeks last fall with no noticeable difference in strength, weight gain or libido.

I have had lifelong problems with what I always attributed to "performance anxiety". Loss of erection during sex, sometimes unable to get an erection. These problems did not occur allthe time, but enough to concern me. This usually occured in times of high anxiety (new girlfriend for example).

These days I don't have a strong libido, which I attributed to relationship problems, but maybe it is linked to the low test thing. My doctor gives me Viagra, which certainly helps the erection but not the drive, and he damn sure doesn't care about my lack of gains in the gym.

I know these issues will not be resolved here, but there are some bright people on this board and I would like some ideas to consider.

 

[Ronin_]

I'll bump this up for Swale as it's great you have a blood panel done there, as will I have done on Feb 5th.

From what I understand you are not primary hypogonadic as although your test levels are low, so is your LH and FSH, so measures to try and get these alot higher would probably be the first course of action - so nolvadex and clomid.

Swale will put you right though. In the meantime I would at the least follow his recommendations to use HCG twice a week on cycle to prevent teste shutdown, as, as you have already had low levels it will make things even harder to try and get back into a healthy range

 

[skywalk]

i'm no authority but might I suggest that you do a recovery cycle and see how your post-bloodwork test results come out.

day 1-10
femara 2.5mg ED
HCG 500iu ED

clomid for 3 weeks at: 150/100/50mg
OR better still instead of clomid,
use nolvadex at 40/40/20/20mg

it will be interesting to see how this works out for you.

Skywalk

 

[DrMCM]

Thanks for the ideas guys. Hopefully, a few more including Swale will weigh in here so I can pick a direction and go.

Any thoughts on whether this is a longterm situaton or brought on by the health store stuff I took last fall. I wish I had found this board before then.

Thanks again.

 

[ENDRO]

Wow your total numbers are lower then mine and my doctor did not hesitate to put me on test. I have to admit I was sick and very tired all the time so I did put the pressure on him to at least let me try it.

 

[SWALE]

I am going to leave this thread here, instread of moving it to the AAS Forum, because it is useful in making a couple of good points.

With your numbers, why on earth are you using an illegal steroid, instead of good, safe, effective, legal TRT?

Winstrol is not a substitute for testosterone. It will further suppress your HPTA, thus lowering endogenous production even more. This will also cause estrogen levels to drop too low.

DO NOT use femara, or any other aromatase inhibitor as "recovery". Your estrogen is definitely not elevated. Use of a SERM is another matter.

Your erectile issues probably are, as you have noted, emotionally driven. Combined with your hypogonadal state, it is no wonder things are not as you owuld like them to be.

 

[DrMCM]

Swale,

Thanks for your reply. I feel this should be left here as the real questions are HRT related, not steroid cycle related.

Why am I using AAS? The same reason everyone else here does-to promote muscle gains. Am I using this INSTEAD of HRT? Absolutely not. I had the labs run the day before I started the Winstrol using your post "The Labs I Run" as my guide. Had I known I was one click above being a female, I would have dealt with the low test issues and given that a chance to be reflected in my gym work before making a decision to use chemical enhancers.

I am certainly aware that Winstrol is no substitute for testosterone, and I did choose it because of its reported relatively high anabolic/low androgenic properties.

If you would prefer to do a workup through your website, I would be glad to do so. However, I feel readers could benefit from this discussion. Again, I had the labs done as a baseline and I was shocked my levels were so low. How many of us are wandering around in the same state?

 

[SWALE]

If you already had my panel done, then you are just about set.

At least half of all men are hypogonadal by the age of fifty.

Androgens are an important part of HRT medicine. You do need a physician who does this for a living.

 

[RubaHed2]

I am also 46 and have been on hrt at 400mg/month for 3 years. Of course after 3 years of almost continous cycles of test at 500-800mg/wk, under the table, I'm pushing it.
My levels were also about 210 on the bloodwork. It may have been the andro products I was using before that that brought my level down so low. I had never done test before 3 years ago. Whatever caused it, I'm on it for good now.
So now after working out 9 years, I went from 160-180 naturally and am 210 pounds and have been since on test.


RubaHed2