Long Term Lean Bulk Question

[nekojeeta]

I’m looking to start adding in another anabolic in the next 6-12 months and I’m looking for some advice.

Background:
I started focusing on my health ~1 year ago, after finding out that I had low test (hypogonadism), that I was prediabetic, and that the wife was pregnant.

Since then I’ve lost 80 lbs of fat, gained 15 lbs of muscle and I’m sitting at a little below 20% bodyfat based on my latest DEXA scan…

I’ve been on TRT the last 9 months and have my dose dialed in at 25mg a day (highest dose I can handle without needing an AI) and I’m taking 4.5iu’s of HGH a day (3ius IM before bed and 1.5 Subq upon waking up).

My diet is clean, I lift 3-4 days a week, and I do 45-60 mins of low impact cardio a day.

Goals:
Once I hit ~10-12% BF I’m thinking of adding in another compound. My goal isn’t really to do a cycle… but instead do a low dose lean bulk that I can basically do indefinitely as long as my bloodwork looks good.

I’m currently considering two approaches and I wanted to get some input as I’m mainly worried that starting mg amounts may not make sense (I have access to both compounds):

Option 1:
- Start adding in 5mg of DHB a day (and add some liver supplements).
- As my strength and muscle gains plateau add in another 5mg of DHB a day
- Keep doing this as long as needed until health markers start to decline (sounds like a liver GGT value of 40 would be the cut off point)
- Then start adding in MastE

Option 2:
- Skip the DHB and just start with MastE at 10mg a day and go up in 10mg a day increments as my strength and muscle gains plateau

I’m thinking that Option 2 may be safer overall, but in either case I’m not sure if a 5 or 10 mg daily dose is too small or not.

Thanks

 

[Bandern]

For your first secondary anabolic, I recommend the one that isn’t dhb

 

[verylargeshoes]

Goals:
Once I hit ~10-12% BF I’m thinking of adding in another compound. My goal isn’t really to do a cycle… but instead do a low dose lean bulk that I can basically do indefinitely as long as my bloodwork looks good.

Given your stated goal of taking some compound indefinitely, what decision process led you to select DHB?!? This is like my quest for a happy, stable relationship in my 20’s, when my dating pool was goth/industrial girls I met at the clubs.

Find yourself a nice, clean bottle of Primo to settle down with. Not only will she be kinder to your organs, she’ll probably reduce your E2 production, so you’ll have more headroom to take the best secondary compound of all: more test.

 

[ItCantBe]

I’m looking to start adding in another anabolic in the next 6-12 months and I’m looking for some advice.

Background:
I started focusing on my health ~1 year ago, after finding out that I had low test (hypogonadism), that I was prediabetic, and that the wife was pregnant.

Since then I’ve lost 80 lbs of fat, gained 15 lbs of muscle and I’m sitting at a little below 20% bodyfat based on my latest DEXA scan…

I’ve been on TRT the last 9 months and have my dose dialed in at 25mg a day (highest dose I can handle without needing an AI) and I’m taking 4.5iu’s of HGH a day (3ius IM before bed and 1.5 Subq upon waking up).

My diet is clean, I lift 3-4 days a week, and I do 45-60 mins of low impact cardio a day.

Goals:
Once I hit ~10-12% BF I’m thinking of adding in another compound. My goal isn’t really to do a cycle… but instead do a low dose lean bulk that I can basically do indefinitely as long as my bloodwork looks good.

I’m currently considering two approaches and I wanted to get some input as I’m mainly worried that starting mg amounts may not make sense (I have access to both compounds):

Option 1:
- Start adding in 5mg of DHB a day (and add some liver supplements).
- As my strength and muscle gains plateau add in another 5mg of DHB a day
- Keep doing this as long as needed until health markers start to decline (sounds like a liver GGT value of 40 would be the cut off point)
- Then start adding in MastE

Option 2:
- Skip the DHB and just start with MastE at 10mg a day and go up in 10mg a day increments as my strength and muscle gains plateau

I’m thinking that Option 2 may be safer overall, but in either case I’m not sure if a 5 or 10 mg daily dose is too small or not.

Thanks

DHB is not a dip your toes in type of compound, certainly not one you want to run long term. Some relatively low health impact optiona to look into. Mast E, Deca, Anavar, Primo is the most mild but also expensive.

 

[nekojeeta]

why out of curiosity if I’m just adding in at a small amount at first (5mg day) and tapering up?

 

[nekojeeta]

Given your stated goal of taking some compound indefinitely, what decision process led you to select DHB?!? This is like my quest for a happy, stable relationship in my 20’s, when my dating pool was goth/industrial girls I met at the clubs.

Find yourself a nice, clean bottle of Primo to settle down with. Not only will she be kinder to your organs, she’ll probably reduce your E2 production, so you’ll have more headroom to take the best secondary compound of all: more test.

I’m leaning towards just using the MastE…

The reason for the DHB is that everyone shits on MastE for not being very anabolic, so figured low dose DHB, which is more anabolic, might lead to better gains in the short/medium term, and for larger doses in the long term I want to stick to anabolic with a safer profile like MastE.

I have some primo on hand, but I’m pretty happy with my current estrogen levels/ratio and don’t really want to increase the Test base as I don’t need additional estrogen, DHT, etc.

 

[nekojeeta]

DHB is not a dip your toes in type of compound, certainly not one you want to run long term. Some relatively low health impact optiona to look into. Mast E, Deca, Anavar, Primo is the most mild but also expensive.

It seems like the big concern with DHB is the liver toxicity. So as long as I’m taking some liver protecting supps and getting regular bloodwork, is there really that much more risk (just trying to learn)

I’m leaning towards the MastE and it sounds like it may be even safer than Primo (they only argument I’ve seen for primo is more studies)

 

[dinfar1337]

I’m leaning towards just using the MastE…

The reason for the DHB is that everyone shits on MastE for not being very anabolic, so figured low dose DHB, which is more anabolic, might lead to better gains in the short/medium term, and for larger doses in the long term I want to stick to anabolic with a safer profile like MastE.

I have some primo on hand, but I’m pretty happy with my current estrogen levels/ratio and don’t really want to increase the Test base as I don’t need additional estrogen, DHT, etc.

why run mast e. i dont think u understand u could just run test at 1g and ai and have a very good lean gain bulk.

the drug amount is whatever, find whatever you need tailored for your problems.

if u deal with high estrogen incorporate eq,primo,ai
if u deal with bad mental incorporate mast.

all these drugs milligram by milligram is gonna grow you. but if u just want pure size for a lean bulk test is king just add ai to it when u get high enough.

 

[dinfar1337]

It seems like the big concern with DHB is the liver toxicity. So as long as I’m taking some liver protecting supps and getting regular bloodwork, is there really that much more risk (just trying to learn)

I’m leaning towards the MastE and it sounds like it may be even safer than Primo (they only argument I’ve seen for primo is more studies)

you can drink alot of water to get over a hangover, but if you walked into the street and got hit by a bus the hangover is the least of your worries tommorow.

liver support dosent work like that

 

[nekojeeta]

why run mast e. i dont think u understand u could just run test at 1g and ai and have a very good lean gain bulk.

the drug amount is whatever, find whatever you need tailored for your problems.

if u deal with high estrogen incorporate eq,primo,ai
if u deal with bad mental incorporate mast.

all these drugs milligram by milligram is gonna grow you. but if u just want pure size for a lean bulk test is king just add ai to it when u get high enough.

I don’t think running high Test is really the way to go imo as it’s a harsh compound. If you run it that high then you are just asking for bad sides (hair loss, acne, high estrogen, etc). Sure you can offset this with AIs, Accutane, Dutasteride, etc buts just doing more harm to your body.

 

[nekojeeta]

you can drink alot of water to get over a hangover, but if you walked into the street and got hit by a bus the hangover is the least of your worries tommorow.

liver support dosent work like that

I’ve been reading a ton and the only sides that I’m seeing people experience on DHB is 1) liver issues, and that seems to be people running high doses and no liver support; and 2) strong pip which seems to be mainly a concentration/brewing issue that you can take steps to avoid

Again leaning more towards just using MastE… but not seeing a lot of actual downsides to the DHB from reading through posts across multiple forums outside of the couple I mentioned above

 

[verylargeshoes]

The biggest issue here is your stated intent to run these compounds for a long time, perhaps constantly. People just don't do that with harsher compounds like DHB. Sane people don't. Maybe somebody here has and can tell you their story, but whether or not you're that resilient, who knows. We really ought to be debating that part of the plan, not whether the highly unusual thing you're doing is using DHB or something else. Decades of users have found cycling to be a good strategy, so when you don't do that, you're at higher risk for unhappy surprises.

Supplements are helpful, but they don't completely cancel out the stressful effects of the compound. Blood tests are not a perfect picture, either. I've heard stories of people on heavy cycles of harsh gear with good bloodwork who developed liver tumors, for example. Using less harsh compounds causes less damage. Taking breaks gives your body time to repair damage. Doing *neither* of those things seems unnecessarily self-destructive.

About the 5mg...if you're running enough DHB to make it worth the injection, you're running enough DHB to cause damage. If there were doses that were completely harmless but also usefully anabolic, we'd all be using those doses and blasting year-round.

You can always run the experiment -- it's your body. It will no doubt be interesting to see the results if you do.

 

[nekojeeta]

The biggest issue here is your stated intent to run these compounds for a long time, perhaps constantly. People just don't do that with harsher compounds like DHB. Sane people don't. Maybe somebody here has and can tell you their story, but whether or not you're that resilient, who knows. We really ought to be debating that part of the plan, not whether the highly unusual thing you're doing is using DHB or something else. Decades of users have found cycling to be a good strategy, so when you don't do that, you're at higher risk for unhappy surprises.

Supplements are helpful, but they don't completely cancel out the stressful effects of the compound. Blood tests are not a perfect picture, either. I've heard stories of people on heavy cycles of harsh gear with good bloodwork who developed liver tumors, for example. Using less harsh compounds causes less damage. Taking breaks gives your body time to repair damage. Doing *neither* of those things seems unnecessarily self-destructive.

About the 5mg...if you're running enough DHB to make it worth the injection, you're running enough DHB to cause damage. If there were doses that were completely harmless but also usefully anabolic, we'd all be using those doses and blasting year-round.

You can always run the experiment -- it's your body. It will no doubt be interesting to see the results if you do.

Totally fair - I see plenty of people running MastE/Primo/Test at low doses more or less indefinitely with good success

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has done this for DHB (it seem the vast majority are running it at 200mg+ a week)

 

[dinfar1337]

Totally fair - I see plenty of people running MastE/Primo/Test at low doses more or less indefinitely with good success

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has done this for DHB (it seem the vast majority are running it at 200mg+ a week)

you dont even wanna run indefiently. you can abuse the hell out of reduced myostatin gains as a newbie until those gains run out. which most people call "never grown as much as i did on my first cycle".

 

[Jeffholio5]

Test and eq at just high enough of a dose to control e2 as you up the test with proper lab monitoring would be my strategy

 

[nekojeeta]

you dont even wanna run indefiently. you can abuse the hell out of reduced myostatin gains as a newbie until those gains run out. which most people call "never grown as much as i did on my first cycle".

I’m not quite following - I get newbie gains can be more

I’m actually just trying to do my research now as I’m probably 6-12 months out from adding a second anabolic

 

[nekojeeta]

Test and eq at just high enough of a dose to control e2 as you up the test with proper lab monitoring would be my strategy

I guess, but Test can be harsh at higher doses with the DHT etc

 

[nekojeeta]

bro, what do you think dhb is? dihydrotestosterone - dihydroboldeone.

Just because it’s a dht derivative doesn’t mean it’s going to spike your dht and drastically increase your hair loss. That’s a common misconception and Test tends to be one of the harshest compounds for raising DHT and impacting your hair

 

[dinfar1337]

Just because it’s a dht derivative doesn’t mean it’s going to spike your dht and drastically increase your hair loss. That’s a common misconception and Test tends to be one of the harshest compounds for raising DHT and impacting your hair

i honestly dont know, i havent lost any hair yet 5 years in so havent really researched much in that area

 

[nekojeeta]

i honestly dont know, i havent lost any hair yet 5 years in so havent really researched much in that area

Totally fair - it’s mainly genetic but anything that raises your DHT, of which Test is one of the worst, will get have your hair falling out much earlier if you have the bald gene