Just started first cycle after doing research, thoughts?

[avoliath92]

Hi everyone,

33 years old and have been on 100mg of TRT for 2 years and just started my first cycle. I just said fuck it and just today went to 400mg/wk pinning every day with insulin needles and have also been pinning 2iu HGH every morning fasted. Will do labs in 6 weeks to see where E2, apob, etc is at. Have 60 capsules of 12.5mg of Aromasin on hand just in case. Did bloodwork as part of TRT and everything has been coming back amazing for the past 2 years every 6 months. Blood pressure has been 105/65ish in those ranges for the past 2 years, resting heart rate in low 60s.

I'm 6'2 178lbs and while my scale says 13.5 percent body fat I think I am closer to 12.5 (splitting hairs here but I am very lean, quad veins, arm/shoulder veins, etc). I have a very good workout routine and am incredibly consistent, get 8 hours of sleep every night, and have an incline treadmill at home that I use every single day minimum of 20 minutes and on rest days do it for about 60 minutes.

Have milk thistle, NAC, magnesium, vit C, vit D, multi, tadalafil 5mg every day, Finasteride (been taking this for years, full head of hair), dutasteride on the way just in case, minoxidil (starting liquid minox in 2 days), keto shampoo, fish oil, glycine. Diet is VERY on point and I use cronometer to hit all my macros and micros, eat the same food every single day save 1 day I go out with a date.

Just wanted to see if anyone is seeing anything glaringly wrong or things that you think I could add to this first cycle? Very eager to learn more as I know I have a LOT to learn.

 

[shredded.lyfe]

You're gonna need to get alot more aromasin

 

[avoliath92]

You're gonna need to get alot more aromasin

Really? I looked up and saw that depending on how much E2 one converts one can be fine with anywhere from 12.5mg twice weekly to 12.5mg EOD. I feel like that should be enough no? With even worst case scenario of needing it every other day that still leaves 17 weeks. Was thinking of doing a 20ish week blast if labs come back just fine.

 

[bananafeet]

You know that testosterone by itself causes hairloss? You will start balding again regardless of using dutasteride or finasteride if your free testosterone is high enough.

 

[avoliath92]

You know that testosterone by itself causes hairloss? You will start balding again regardless of using dutasteride or finasteride if your free testosterone is high enough.

My assumption was that if I don't have a genetic component to male pattern baldness and I am on finasteride/dut and taking minox the balding won't happen? Or at least will have a smaller chance.

This will be my first blast of just test and I won't ever add in any compounds. Assuming this goes well I will do AT MOST 1 blast a year and keep it shorter than this first one.

Or is it just that doing a blast at all will 100 percent lead to inevitable hair loss?

 

[bananafeet]

My assumption was that if I don't have a genetic component to male pattern baldness and I am on finasteride/dut and taking minox the balding won't happen? Or at least will have a smaller chance.

This will be my first blast of just test and I won't ever add in any compounds. Assuming this goes well I will do AT MOST 1 blast a year and keep it shorter than this first one.

Or is it just that doing a blast at all will 100 percent lead to inevitable hair loss?

The only reason why DHT causes MPB is because it's binds to the AR very strongly. Like 2-5x testosterone.

You increase your testosterone levels and you will start balding again. I assume you're not taking a drug "just in case".

Look at my hair it has hardly budged blasting because I'm not susceptible. Other people go bald in the 20s.

If you want to avoid it as much as possible keep the total androgen load low and maintain a good level of E2 (to keep SHBG relatively healthy).

You need to lift heavy ass weights to gain muscle that lasts off cycle anyway.

I can't say whether X mg will make you bald or not. We are all different...

 

[Billbo98]

Bro 6-2 178 coulda gained mass if you just ate more food. Didn’t need to hop on 400 Test. That said like mentioned id get more Asin and did you get baseline labs or just say fuck it to that too?

 

[Elektrobot]

my scale says 13.5 percent body fat

If you think a scale can magically sense your body fat percentage, you aren't ready for a cycle. Demonstrates a complete lack of competency in this arena.

ab veins = 10% and lower

Chest veins 14% and lower

If you can only see shoulder veins, you are 20%+

You are likely fatter than you think, and would benefit from dieting to a true 12% before suddenly abusing 400mg test a week.

if I don't have a genetic component to male pattern baldness

Balding from testosterone abuse isn't genetic, it's induced. You are injecting an androgen that will cause you to lose hair.



If you are using oral dut and fin and reducing dht conversion- you are going to drive up e2 conversion. That combined with high bodyfat is not a good plan.

But if you did your research you already know this.... right?

Any chance your research taught you what is wrong with your training and nutrition?


..... You are 6'2, 180 pounds, and fat because you are doing it wrong.

Fix the problems with your training and nutrition. 400mg of test isn't going to do what you think it will right now

 

[avoliath92]

The only reason why DHT causes MPB is because it's binds to the AR very strongly. Like 2-5x testosterone.

You increase your testosterone levels and you will start balding again. I assume you're not taking a drug "just in case".

Look at my hair it has hardly budged blasting because I'm not susceptible. Other people go bald in the 20s.

If you want to avoid it as much as possible keep the total androgen load low and maintain a good level of E2 (to keep SHBG relatively healthy).

You need to lift heavy ass weights to gain muscle that lasts off cycle anyway.

I can't say whether X mg will make you bald or not. We are all different...

Ah my bad on explaining. I've been on finasteride just in case for the past 4ish years. Low dose, 1mg a day.

Bro 6-2 178 coulda gained mass if you just ate more food. Didn’t need to hop on 400 Test. That said like mentioned id get more Asin and did you get baseline labs or just say fuck it to that too?

I put in my original post that I got baseline labs and that they all came back great.

If you think a scale can magically sense your body fat percentage, you aren't ready for a cycle. Demonstrates a complete lack of competency in this arena.

ab veins = 10% and lower

Chest veins 14% and lower

If you can only see shoulder veins, you are 20%+

You are likely fatter than you think, and would benefit from dieting to a true 12% before suddenly abusing 400mg test a week.





Balding from testosterone abuse isn't genetic, it's induced. You are injecting an androgen that will cause you to lose hair.



If you are using oral dut and fin and reducing dht conversion- you are going to drive up e2 conversion. That combined with high bodyfat is not a good plan.

But if you did your research you already know this.... right?

Any chance your research taught you what is wrong with your training and nutrition?


..... You are 6'2, 180 pounds, and fat because you are doing it wrong.

Fix the problems with your training and nutrition. 400mg of test isn't going to do what you think it will right now

While I definitely still have size I can put on I bulked up to 205 and then cut down to about 175ish. I wouldn't say I'm fat. (Had to cover up tattoo)

 

[bananafeet]

I don't think Finasteride is something you take "just in case".

But anyway bro up to you.

 

[avoliath92]

I don't think Finasteride is something you take "just in case".

But anyway bro up to you.

Ah gotcha. My derm told me people do that to be on the safe side as long as they aren't getting side effects.

But I appreciate the rest of the information you gave me!

 

[bananafeet]

Ah gotcha. My derm told me people do that to be on the safe side as long as they aren't getting side effects.

But I appreciate the rest of the information you gave me!

Yeah I'm not trying to be a prick but....

Like balding and steroids are kinda guaranteed. Look at an endocrinology book. Sweat glands (sebum), genitals, prostate and hair are major targets for androgen expression.

You have a good physique already. No guarantees you will look better on gear.

Will you be happier bald and jacked or with a head full of hair and lean?

Just something to think about. I think dutasteride is more benign than Finasteride due to the size of the molecule.

But that being said you need DHT for penis functionality and neurosteroids (produced by 3aHSD).

 

[avoliath92]

Yeah I'm not trying to be a prick but....

Like balding and steroids are kinda guaranteed. Look at an endocrinology book. Sweat glands (sebum), genitals, prostate and hair are major targets for androgen expression.

You have a good physique already. No guarantees you will look better on gear.

Will you be happier bald and jacked or with a head full of hair and lean?

Just something to think about. I think dutasteride is more benign than Finasteride due to the size of the molecule.

But that being said you need DHT for penis functionality and neurosteroids (produced by 3aHSD).

You're right, will research more heavily into this tomorrow! I might just make this my first and last blast cycle because yeah I wouldn't want to go down this route if hair loss is guaranteed with just test.

 

[Elektrobot]

Bless you for not being a fatty.

Everyone's musculature is different, but it looks like you could still lose a good bit from your midsection. Or maybe its the photo. Your abs just look smoothed over.

The risk / reward for using 400mg test may not net the outcome you think it will.

You should have checked your e2 and IGF before increasing your test and starting hgh

Without knowing you natty igf, there is no way to know if 2iu is shutting your natural production down for more or for less than you were already producing. You cant guess at these things.

What kind / level of research did you do?

How did you decide on 2iu hgh, and why in the morning?

HGH takes 2 hours IM / 3 hours subq to reach peak serum levels. It doesn't matter if you are fasted when you inject it. It matters if you are fasted for a long span of time after. Thats why the instructions for serostim say to take it before bed.


What changes did you make to your food plan?

What changes did you make to your training program?

 

[thejumpingsheep]

If you think a scale can magically sense your body fat percentage, you aren't ready for a cycle. Demonstrates a complete lack of competency in this arena.

ab veins = 10% and lower

Chest veins 14% and lower

If you can only see shoulder veins, you are 20%+

You are likely fatter than you think, and would benefit from dieting to a true 12% before suddenly abusing 400mg test a week.





Balding from testosterone abuse isn't genetic, it's induced. You are injecting an androgen that will cause you to lose hair.



If you are using oral dut and fin and reducing dht conversion- you are going to drive up e2 conversion. That combined with high bodyfat is not a good plan.

But if you did your research you already know this.... right?

Any chance your research taught you what is wrong with your training and nutrition?


..... You are 6'2, 180 pounds, and fat because you are doing it wrong.

Fix the problems with your training and nutrition. 400mg of test isn't going to do what you think it will right now

Man I wish the vein measures were true but I know they arent in my case... I have viens everywhere... abs, chest, shoulders, quads, and calves are scary. No way im 10% BF... 15% probably. 6-0 196lbs right now. Not very buff.

 

[Elektrobot]

Man I wish the vein measures were true but I know they arent in my case... I have viens everywhere... abs, chest, shoulders, quads, and calves are scary. No way im 10% BF... 15% probably. 6-0 196lbs right now. Not very buff.

I'd brag too

 

[thejumpingsheep]

I'd brag too

Honestly not bragging, id rather be 10% with no veins. Its not like they help with anything. I'm still old and insides all messed up no matter how I look.

 

[Billbo98]

Honestly not bragging, id rather be 10% with no veins. Its not like they help with anything. I'm still old and insides all messed up no matter how I look.

Yeah man I can be 20% + bodyfat and arms, legs and chest and delts still have prominent veins lmao. Genetics for sure.

 

[Slowww]

Probably one of the few first cycle posts that are actually reasonable. Regarding test always leading to hair loss— most of my friends who have been on steroids for years have normal & basically full heads of hair. A couple of us are in early thirties and some are in late thirties. I don’t think it is guaranteed. None of us do anything to protect from hair loss either. You adding those things may be overkill, especially for such a conservative cycle. i think starting at 2iu hgh is decent. Starting at replacement and titrating up if it seemed appropriate is an advisable way to go about enhancement with hgh to minimize one’s of side effects.
Regarding cardio protocol, 60 minutes on rest day sounds a bit funny. I don’t see the point of this on a day meant for resting.

 

[Cman90]

Probably one of the few first cycle posts that are actually reasonable. Regarding test always leading to hair loss— most of my friends who have been on steroids for years have normal & basically full heads of hair. A couple of us are in early thirties and some are in late thirties. I don’t think it is guaranteed. None of us do anything to protect from hair loss either. You adding those things may be overkill, especially for such a conservative cycle. i think starting at 2iu hgh is decent. Starting at replacement and titrating up if it seemed appropriate is an advisable way to go about enhancement with hgh to minimize one’s of side effects.
Regarding cardio protocol, 60 minutes on rest day sounds a bit funny. I don’t see the point of this on a day meant for resting.

Agreed. Out of all the retarded cycles I've seen posted here recently, I think this one is fine. Could maybe start at 300 test, which is 3x the androgenic load you are used to already. If you notice significant shedding of your hair or other negative sides, you can go back down to trt or implement ancillaries (RU is an option).

Given you are already on trt and are going to be monitoring blood work to mitigate sides, you don't have much to lose imo.

If you don't like the higher androgenic load, go back down. Plain and simple.