Is Meso Losing Its Edge?

[TRTBro]

you're insulting tons of good dudes literally just hanging out and showing each other their "stuff" (only chill with the "stuff's" permission, to be clear)

its obvious you dont like it, but getting so personal about it is so telling about where your obviously insecure mind is.

just say you're jealous and lonely next time and save everyone some time.

on a more real note, be careful insulting people's families. even online. i know that by putting family "out there" you subject them to that kind of attention, but seriously bro people can take that kind of stuff so much more seriously than you realize and so many people have been hurt irl for getting that personal online, even under the apparent protection of anonymity. i know the beginning of my message was a bit finger-waggy, but this last paragraph is nothing but a sincere offering of my perspective.

Bro literally agreed in his own words it was off topic and then continued to post again.

craigdt said:
"I will acknowledge it took the thread off topic and should have used better judgement."


Imagine posting garbage that has nothing to do with AAS, harm reduction, etc. and then trying to defend it in a thread about the forum losing its edge. The irony is insane.

I don't really care about porn (as I said before - from a new vendor once or twice is funny) but a random member posting it here, acknowledging it was off topic and continuing to post regardless is kind of whack.

 

[The Answ3r]

if you're going to invoke constitutional rights you should probably understand them first. freedom of speech in the US means the government can't censor you in most cases, it does not mean that forums cannot be moderated according to the editorial standards of the admins.

I wasn’t filing a Supreme Court brief. It was called sarcasm. You know… exaggeration for effect? Dramatic emphasis? Making a point by pushing it to the absurd?

I’m fully aware a private forum isn’t Congress. I wasn’t about to subpoena Millard.

It was a rhetorical flourish, not a constitutional crisis. But I appreciate the mini civics lecture. Very educational.

 

[hellerhiwater]

Bro literally agreed in his own words it was off topic and then continued to post again.

craigdt said:
"I will acknowledge it took the thread off topic and should have used better judgement."


Imagine posting garbage that has nothing to do with AAS, harm reduction, etc. and then trying to defend it in a thread about the forum losing its edge. The irony is insane.

I don't really care about porn (as I said before - from a new vendor once or twice is funny) but a random member posting it here, acknowledging it was off topic and continuing to post regardless is kind of whack.

Nice pivot to avoid engaging with ANYTHING I said lol

Didn’t mention the forum’s integrity, off or on topic, nothing. Just your weird af attitude and decision to make your opinions known in a personal way.

I can absolutely see your POV on the issue, and don’t even fully disagree. But you went about communicating it in a terrible way, and people who get as nasty as you as quick as you did will never be good additions to a community like this. But since I want any/everyone to come and contribute, I offered my two cents. I hope you stay and choose to not immediately start slinging mud next time something irks you.

 

[Dial It In]

Going to try and remain neutral and not be the pot calling the kettle black. Now I had an old account that would have a fancy 10 yr banner but I’ve long forgotten all of that one and often lurked and didn’t engage. Yes, Meso was a place you got ran rough shot over for saying dumb shit. It only took a little damn effort to spend time searching and looking for information but that escapes people. Why is that? Well you used to have the cat herders that explained your error and encourage you to search. Member intros were a must or you’d get eviscerated. Now you tell someone to do one you or search you are gate keeping or being a dick.

But what has changed with the edge? Well the info from 10,15, 20 years ago has changed and the science has changed. Feel like some lose that piece. But you can count on some guys with banners to come in and throw in that old school back in our day stuff and not accept that maybe something has changed and we’ve gotten smarter and want higher standards even if it is UG. I mean we can try and why not. I’m good with some stuff and ignorant in some things and I know that despite 20 years of use.

The pay to play definitely changed the landscape and that is a big piece in just the last 6 months. But what else is going on. This thread is a prime example. Threads get off topic, insults fly and people get feelings boo boos. Yeah I’ve thrown them off topic also. It’s a conscience effort to try and keep them on topic because man I want to comment on something that has no business in the thread. So as a result we now get moderation. But would the moderation be the same if we moved the topic or question at hand out of the thread in which it doesn’t belong? Possibly, but that is a question for the administrator. Yes some bans are a bit much for sure.

Maybe we’ve allowed this to become a place just to talk source shit. Used to be so much in here about diet, training and cycles in member created threads. Feel like many stopped out of getting beat down because their way is the wrong way. Yeah call out dumb cycles that are harmful but they will listen or don’t so just move on if they choose the later. Now the discussions are just in source threads. So what can we do? Can we shift it back? Sure, if we that care do it together. Ask them to move it or just don’t respond. If they push back just let it go. Try sending a DM letting them know that you are willing to help. I’ve made that offer. Some took it and some didn’t. Take a look at the member intros that have zero replies and take that opportunity to engage and get them ironed out of what we want this place to be is an option. Anyway, I’m rambling and it’s probably stupid but it’s gym time and the Halo is flowing.

 

[nullandvoid]

I'm particularly amused by the quiet, slow culling of posts. There's an obvious effort to make Meso into a rubber room with gentle caretakers for the idiots with $10.

 

[BALLISTIC]

I'm particularly amused by the quiet, slow culling of posts. There's an obvious effort to make Meso into a rubber room with gentle caretakers for the idiots with $10.

↑↑↑ My man.

 

[nullandvoid]

I mean, really... what have we all seen at this point ad nauseum... "SQUAWK... HARM REDUCTION, HARM REDUCTION" It's total bullshit. It's insulting to expect members to take that at face value after we've all seen the real reasons. It was also a bullshit move to make Ghoulalot a mod. This place has sunk to a new low.

 

[BALLISTIC]

I mean, really... what have we all seen at this point ad nauseum... "SQUAWK... HARM REDUCTION, HARM REDUCTION" It's total bullshit. It's insulting to expect members to take that at face value after we've all seen the real reasons. It was also a bullshit move to make Ghoulalot a mod. This place has sunk to a new low.

I agree mostly... I don’t actually know if he’s a MOD. Reasonable to believe, certainly.

I just don’t want to see this place become any more candy ass than it already has. Meso is essentially my only social media, if you will. It’s my first real forum outside of some hobby boards, and what set it apart was the toughness it took to stick around here.

That toughness was the filter. If you couldn’t handle blunt feedback, you either adapted or you left, and the quality of information reflected that.

A prime example of terrible is Eroids. I mean, if there was ever a collective of the dumbest people in AAS, that’s it, now joined by large parts of Reddit and TikTok. But that’s how it started there too... Moderation of feelings.
Then an inch turns into a mile. Then vendors with bad reviews can pay their way out of it, basically the BBB model.

If the mods actually care, and I want to believe they do sincerely, or at least to some degree, there’s a simple middle ground where they can still keep pay-to-play.

Keep the UG readable if you pay, but restrict commenting for 3 months minimal.
New members can still, find sources, Observe, Learn, Fail and Figure it out like the rest of us did. Half the BS in that subforum would disappear instantly. Also adjust the forum so that once a new member is accepted, they can't do anything till going through the new member section and creating a post... A template post should be used.

Once completed and if during that 3 month timeframe they contribute elsewhere on the forum, don’t act like children, and show they can engage without being trolling brats, then grant full UG access. Because anyone who reads can even see the vendors are tired of it as well.

*Call it a grow up phase*

There also needs to be acknowledgment that foul language isn’t some moral failing, and half the time it’s just sentence enhancement. It gets the message across stronger when necessary. Banter, sarcasm, even getting knocked down time after time builds character. “When weakness is protected from challenge, strength has no reason to exist, and soon, no place to survive.” BALLISTIC

Now if that direction ever turns into blatantly derogatory or racially charged dialogue, threats, targeted harassment based on religion, ethnicity, sexuality, disability, etc. Then yeah, we have a real problem.
That’s where the line is.

But I see people post all the time and someone immediately says, “it’s because you’re a fat ass.” Well… is it true?
Because the hard truth is better than being lied to. I respect brutal honesty. Are we going to put that in timeout next? What about telling a dude he’s got gyno (Properly phrased "bitch tits")? Or calling out lifestyle issues that are clearly contributing to his situation? But I keep hearing harm reduction. I keep hearing a bunch of people spew it out.

Hell there's a dude right here in this thread that I've communicated with and he was brutally honest with himself. We spoke in DMs and truth be told I'd shake his hand if I could. Mentally tough he is. Deserves to know it.

The line doesn’t have to be fine, it should be broad. Honest, even abrasive criticism is one thing. Actual discrimination or dehumanizing someone for immutable traits is another.

In a text-only environment, tone policing is subjective anyway. There’s no body language or vocal inflection here, and pretending otherwise just shits the culture toward fragility of incompetence.

 

[hellerhiwater]

I agree mostly... I don’t actually know if he’s a MOD. Reasonable to believe, certainly.

I just don’t want to see this place become any more candy ass than it already has. Meso is essentially my only social media, if you will. It’s my first real forum outside of some hobby boards, and what set it apart was the toughness it took to stick around here.

That toughness was the filter. If you couldn’t handle blunt feedback, you either adapted or you left, and the quality of information reflected that.

A prime example of terrible is Eroids. I mean, if there was ever a collective of the dumbest people in AAS, that’s it, now joined by large parts of Reddit and TikTok. But that’s how it started there too... Moderation of feelings.
Then an inch turns into a mile. Then vendors with bad reviews can pay their way out of it, basically the BBB model.

If the mods actually care, and I want to believe they do sincerely, or at least to some degree, there’s a simple middle ground where they can still keep pay-to-play.

Keep the UG readable if you pay, but restrict commenting for 3 months minimal.
New members can still, find sources, Observe, Learn, Fail and Figure it out like the rest of us did. Half the BS in that subforum would disappear instantly. Also adjust the forum so that once a new member is accepted, they can't do anything till going through the new member section and creating a post... A template post should be used.

Once completed and if during that 3 month timeframe they contribute elsewhere on the forum, don’t act like children, and show they can engage without being trolling brats, then grant full UG access. Because anyone who reads can even see the vendors are tired of it as well.

*Call it a grow up phase*

There also needs to be acknowledgment that foul language isn’t some moral failing, and half the time it’s just sentence enhancement. It gets the message across stronger when necessary. Banter, sarcasm, even getting knocked down time after time builds character. “When weakness is protected from challenge, strength has no reason to exist, and soon, no place to survive.” BALLISTIC

Now if that direction ever turns into blatantly derogatory or racially charged dialogue, threats, targeted harassment based on religion, ethnicity, sexuality, disability, etc. Then yeah, we have a real problem.
That’s where the line is.

But I see people post all the time and someone immediately says, “it’s because you’re a fat ass.” Well… is it true?
Because the hard truth is better than being lied to. I respect brutal honesty. Are we going to put that in timeout next? What about telling a dude he’s got gyno (Properly phrased "bitch tits")? Or calling out lifestyle issues that are clearly contributing to his situation? But I keep hearing harm reduction. I keep hearing a bunch of people spew it out.

Hell there's a dude right here in this thread that I've communicated with and he was brutally honest with himself. We spoke in DMs and truth be told I'd shake his hand if I could. Mentally tough he is. Deserves to know it.

The line doesn’t have to be fine, it should be broad. Honest, even abrasive criticism is one thing. Actual discrimination or dehumanizing someone for immutable traits is another.

In a text-only environment, tone policing is subjective anyway. There’s no body language or vocal inflection here, and pretending otherwise just shits the culture toward fragility of incompetence.

"your language is problematic and offensive and id like to hold space for anyone to come and share their feelings and how they may have been hurt by your violent rhetoric. i hope you have a better day."

this will soon be the response to telling 19 year olds they're dumb for wanting to try tren before they've even stepped foot in a gym.

 

[bananafeet]

You have to communicate with people in a language and at a level they understand.

Some people it's highfalutin language.
Some people it's forced politness with barely obscured anger.
Some people it's casually and simple.

Others need to be sworn at or physically beaten.

That's the human condition unfortunately.

 

[BALLISTIC]

You have to communicate with people in a language and at a level they understand.

Some people it's highfalutin language.
Some people it's forced politness with barely obscured anger.
Some people it's casually and simple.

Others need to be sworn at or physically beaten.

That's the human condition unfortunately.

To your point, there is proven psychological study that showed the fastest learning curve for humans and animals was.

PAIN FEAR AND VIOLENCE.

remarkable study that showed kindness is often utilized subconsciously in a way to manipulate. Once a human realizes the other is gentle they take advantage.

 

[bananafeet]

I just want to frame my comments with some historical nuance.

"Back in the day" ie one or two generations ago. It was socially acceptable to beat someone else's children.

In schools they had caning. They used Rattan palm vines that originally were used to punish slaves and they used to leaves the thorns in them.

Anywho that became less culturally acceptable as we adopted the thought that we could "educate" people into not being bad people.

This is essential a more female perspective as women are on the average more socially compliant. The male rationale is f**k around and find out. IE actions have concrete punishments or responses.

We also moved to a less individualistic society where we enlarged the state and reduced private liability. In a sense creating learned helplessness amoungst the people. This means you have professionals for everything with their own liability protection.

Professionals in violence and dispute became the police.

I think it's run it's course now because the age of prosperity is over and there is more inequality and with it more crime.

My own small state is looking to introduce Castle Doctrine which is basically authorised use of lethal violence (albiet in narrow and justified circumstances). Crazy times.

 

[SmallTitsIRL]

I just want to frame my comments with some historical nuance.

"Back in the day" ie one or two generations ago. It was socially acceptable to beat someone else's children.

In schools they had caning. They used Rattan palm vines that originally were used to punish slaves and they used to leaves the thorns in them.

Anywho that became less culturally acceptable as we adopted the thought that we could "educate" people into not being bad people.

This is essential a more female perspective as women are on the average more socially compliant. The male rationale is f**k around and find out. IE actions have concrete punishments or responses.

We also moved to a less individualistic society where we enlarged the state and reduced private liability. In a sense creating learned helplessness amoungst the people. This means you have professionals for everything with their own liability protection.

Professionals in violence and dispute became the police.

I think it's run it's course now because the age of prosperity is over and there is more inequality and with it more crime.

My own small state is looking to introduce Castle Doctrine which is basically authorised use of lethal violence (albiet in narrow and justified circumstances). Crazy times.

I assume most of the people on this thread were beaten as a child one way or another.

The ones constantly waiting to be spoonfed, not following the rules and complaining that they paid, thus they don't have to do a member introduction, had a yes mom/dad, it's very evident the different education people had based on their interactions, most of the time not being able to handle honesty and being straightforward

 

[BALLISTIC]

I assume most of the people on this thread were beaten as a child one way or another.

The ones constantly waiting to be spoonfed, not following the rules and complaining that they paid, thus they don't have to do a member introduction, had a yes mom/dad, it's very evident the different education people had based on their interactions, most of the time not being able to handle honesty and being straightforward

Agreed and of the age and maturity enough now to acknowledge I earned it each and every time. Dad said didn't do this. I did it anyway. Consequences.

Distinct memory...
My dad wasn't a heavy drinker but he would occasionally, and etched the glass bottles with a diamond razor blade. He knew I was age if curiosity. Well he obviously came home and noticed. In the calming demeanor he took out a low ball and put 4 fingers of whiskey in the glass. Sat me down and said..."your a man now, time to drink like one". Gave me 30s to slug it down.

Needles to say it was fun for a moment, until it wasn't, and I was water boarding myself at the toilet. Haha

No lie I didn't try alcohol again until 18 in the military. Not every lesson was violent, but the point was always made.

With that nothing to this day sounds like the snap of a leather belt.

 

[Billbo98]

I assume most of the people on this thread were beaten as a child one way or another.

The ones constantly waiting to be spoonfed, not following the rules and complaining that they paid, thus they don't have to do a member introduction, had a yes mom/dad, it's very evident the different education people had based on their interactions, most of the time not being able to handle honesty and being straightforward

Too many of these new gen soft broccoli’s grew up not being scared of their Mom or Dad and were never hit with a belt, spatula, wood spoon etc. They also never had to do hard things growing up and probably never played team sports because too busy trying to be a pro gamer or influencer. It all shows in their demeanor and way they handle conversations with others. Basic 101 human etiquette down the drain with most. Then they cry to MESO admins because we’re “mean”.

 

[SmallTitsIRL]

Agreed and of the age and maturity enough now to acknowledge I earned it each and every time. Dad said didn't do this. I did it anyway. Consequences.

Distinct memory...
My dad wasn't a heavy drinker but he would occasionally, and etched the glass bottles with a diamond razor blade. He knew I was age if curiosity. Well he obviously came home and noticed. In the calming demeanor he took out a low ball and put 4 fingers of whiskey in the glass. Sat me down and said..."your a man now, time to drink like one". Gave me 30s to slug it down.

Needles to say it was fun for a moment, until it wasn't, and I was water boarding myself at the toilet. Haha

No lie I didn't try alcohol again until 18 in the military. Not every lesson was violent, but the point was always made.

With that nothing to this day sounds like the snap of a leather belt.

I was raised in a home where honesty is everything. You do something stupid, you get called stupid.

I still remember this one time, I did some stupid shit, my father asked me why I did it, as I'm going to answer I get slapped and told "do not answer me", good old times when you didn't even know what child services were.

At the end of the day, we are all messed up differently.