Iran?

[ForemanRules]

It's so cute when children try to hold their end of an adult conversation. Well, it's cute for a while. Then it starts to get annoying.

I own a construction company with 20+ employees. I've bent over backwards to try to hire and keep Americans, but they're just too damned lazy. They expect to own 50% of the company before they should have to actually show up to work 4 days in a row. I pay illigeal immigrants the same fair wages that the Americans have been offered. The hispanics love their jobs, and they tell me I am the best boss they've ever had.

Can any of you explain the reason for the difference in attitudes?

While you're explaining, tell me this...You want the goverment to stop infringing on our rights and be less powerful, and at the same time they should start telling free business enterprises that they aren't allowed outside the country.

You bitch so much about the domestic injustices of America, and in the same breath try to sell foreign aid for shit hole providences and deserts half way around the world. No comprendo.

Yes......I would bet you pay them less than that job paid back in 1980, and the illegals you hire love anything......hell go to Mexico and see what NAFTA has done to boost the average persons personal income...one example of free trade and how it does nothing for the average person in that country..

 

[swing]

I don't know. My Enlish history ain't the greatest, but I do believe it wasn't until the middle of the 20th century that the sun set on the Brittish Empire. They were warring and imperializing well up into the 50's. I think they could give us a run for our money.

Wrong...the British empire was at its decline following WWI. They experienced conflicts with South Africa, India, the British Isles, and 3 other countries. The US on the other hand had more than 20 conflicts with different countries.

 

[swing]

Yes.....every book I read in school from grades 1-16 was extremly positive about America.

I like that...

 

[oldtimer]

Tell you what, regarding the whole food post, I know I sure as fuck don't give a good goddamn if people are starving. In fact, I can think of 30 people off the top of my head that I wish were starving to death. I don't like people. I'd rather most of them were dead. So, no, I don't give a shit about them.

But, most importantly, they DESERVE it. OH! Cruel, heartless bastard that I am. How can that be? I don't know, you tell me why someone too stupid to move out of the desert doesn't deserve to starve.

More to the point, read "I, Rigoberta Menchu". It's about a Guatemalan Indian and her life. At one point in the book, she straight says, "we don't have enough to eat. We know most of our children will die before they're even 7 years old, but it is our culture to have as many children as we can."

If that ain't the kind of stupidity that needs to be starved out of the world, I don't know what is.

Your point is correct (why should we help?), but saying they deserve to starve is incorrect in my book.

I know this much; it's not my business to feed people and keep them alive, it's God's. However, I won't say they don't deserve to live either.

 

[Grizzly]

Perhaps, I shouldn't say "deserve" as it may have too many bad connotations. But, if one persists in an endeavor that has nothing but bad consequences, yet still continues day after day, year after year, generation after generation in this endeavor, then the resultant misery is certainly earned, if not deserved.

 

[Grizzly]

Wrong...the British empire was at its decline following WWI. They experienced conflicts with South Africa, India, the British Isles, and 3 other countries. The US on the other hand had more than 20 conflicts with different countries.

In it's decline, but it was still ass-fucking India until '53(IIRC) and Hong Kong was just release, what?, like, 7 years ago? Apartheid was going strong well into the 80's. You think it's an accident that Africans sound like Britts and speak English as well?

 

[Grizzly]

I wish I made that much.......more like 50,000....

and the hard working people like teachers,.ect get paid shit.....

So you're still 7k above the average American and double me. You're still bourgieous! Plus, if you're only pulling in 50k, then you must live in a relatively small city with a relatively low cost of living. In the end, it's like making 65k in a "real" city.

Don't know about your area, but teachers start at about 38k around here....for 9 months of work. So, if they worked a whole year, they'd be starting at 50k. Teachers in my high school who had been there 20 years were making 75+....for 9 months of work. This doesn't even take into account the other means of making more money like coaching and whatnot. When all was said and done, ol' Mr. Hart was pulling 83k/yr. Man, he sure was taking it in the ass!

 

[Dionysus]

It's so cute when children try to hold their end of an adult conversation. Well, it's cute for a while. Then it starts to get annoying.

I own a construction company with 20+ employees. I've bent over backwards to try to hire and keep Americans, but they're just too damned lazy. They expect to own 50% of the company before they should have to actually show up to work 4 days in a row. I pay illigeal immigrants the same fair wages that the Americans have been offered. The hispanics love their jobs, and they tell me I am the best boss they've ever had.

Can any of you explain the reason for the difference in attitudes?

While you're explaining, tell me this...You want the goverment to stop infringing on our rights and be less powerful, and at the same time they should start telling free business enterprises that they aren't allowed outside the country.

You bitch so much about the domestic injustices of America, and in the same breath try to sell foreign aid for shit hole providences and deserts half way around the world. No comprendo.

The great day will be when the Mexicans that work for you finally start their own construction company, start underbidding you, put you right out of business, and you cant find a job because all the company hired friggin illegals.

LOL Just kidding, of course, we all know that could never happen... wink.

 

[Dionysus]

The US does support, while it should not.

I agree 1000000%

 

[Dionysus]

Foremand and Dionysus-

I think you both need to re-evaluate your motivations and, also, your devotion to your "causes". Foreman, as a cop, you make ~65,000/yr, which is 22,000/yr more than the average American and close to 40,000/yr more than I make. I think you're rich.

I think, at the least, that you need to donate 22,000/yr of your money to anyone who doesn't make 43k/yr because you shouldn't be making more than anybody else and I shouldn't be making less than anyone else.

You "need" it, you say? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that 4 bedroom houses, boats, motorcycles, cars, more than 2 pairs of pants, enough food to fuel bodybuilding endeavors, televisions, radios and any other number of things are necessities of life. Somehow Malaysians, Guatemalans, Africans, Belizians, Belarusians, Polishes, Arabs and any other number of people manage to survive without them.

Oh, I'm sorry, you meant that all of those are alright to own. It's only when one decides to buy an island that it is too extravagant. What about half an island? Is that OK? I mean, a whole island is too much, so half and island is just right, I'd guess.

And who shall we default to to decide what is enough and what is too much? Fuck, I think you make too much. You make triple what I do. Bourgieous motherfucker!


You two simply want to take from those who have more. You want to take from them and give to yourself.

This is the shit I'm talking about griz. The catch is you actually have to READ the articles from the two links. I realize this is work, however it'll make you gain 5lbs of lean mass.

http://www.ips-dc.org/projects/execexcess2001.htm

Now, I dont know you, but I will take a risk and assume you are smart enough to understand what you read there.

Here is another interesting link for you people to chew on. Pay particular attention to the amount of jobs being sent out of the country.

http://faireconomy.org/press/2004/EE2004_pr.html

If you people dont see something scarey-wrong with these figures, then ya need a check-up from the neck-up.

 

[Kayz]

I fully agree that no CEO is worth a $30 million bonus at the end of the year..especially at companies such as Delphi, Ford, and GM where they are reporting multi-billion dollar losses. I do believe that CEO's should make a substantial more amount of money than your average line-worker...that is just common sense. And what really kills me is when a CEO runs a big company into the ground even further and the board decides to buy out the remainder of the contract for $50 million (example: the female CEO of Hewlett Packard. She rean HP into the ground, and took home close to $50 million in a buyout just so she'd leave.) I don't understand how the shareholders could approve of that.

On the flip side, I think there are a lot of jobs that are not worthy of $23/hour, but that is what they are going for (see GM and Delphi). There are many many American workers who are WAAAAYYY overpaid for what they do.

 

[ForemanRules]

So you're still 7k above the average American and double me. You're still bourgieous! Plus, if you're only pulling in 50k, then you must live in a relatively small city with a relatively low cost of living. In the end, it's like making 65k in a "real" city.

Don't know about your area, but teachers start at about 38k around here....for 9 months of work. So, if they worked a whole year, they'd be starting at 50k. Teachers in my high school who had been there 20 years were making 75+....for 9 months of work. This doesn't even take into account the other means of making more money like coaching and whatnot. When all was said and done, ol' Mr. Hart was pulling 83k/yr. Man, he sure was taking it in the ass!

Im in AZ and no pay scale out here goes over 62,000 a year for cop ( my department tops off at 59,000) ....and it's a great area to live in....one of the biggest growing areas in the country.

Also I believe cops and Firemen should get paid well......who else is going to save your ass???? When you have to deal with the shit we do on a daily basis...and never know when you will be shot at, stabbed or burned alive...then you can get paid more.

 

[Kayz]

When you have to deal with the shit we do on a daily basis...and never know when you will be shot at, stabbed or burned alive...then you can get paid more.

I fully agree...and I also think cops should be allowed to do their damn job without the fear of a lawsuit hanging over their head all the time. These cities need to take the cuffs off the cops.

Likewise, an employer who has everything tied up in his business (house, cars, personal money) should make more since he has "more to lose."

 

[Grizzly]

Here is another interesting link for you people to chew on. Pay particular attention to the amount of jobs being sent out of the country.

http://faireconomy.org/press/2004/EE2004_pr.html

If you people dont see something scarey-wrong with these figures, then ya need a check-up from the neck-up.

Regardless of the numbers, the point of a business is not to provide you with a job. A man starts a business to make money. Period.

While there is certainly a code of ethics that should be followed, a businessman owes no one anything. Saying that our companies can not find their labor wherever they choose because the "owe" the American people something is akin to telling a business owner that he has to hire everyone who fills out an application. It is his "duty" to provide a job for those in need.

 

[Grizzly]

Im in AZ and no pay scale out here goes over 62,000 a year for cop ( my department tops off at 59,000) ....and it's a great area to live in....one of the biggest growing areas in the country.

Also I believe cops and Firemen should get paid well......who else is going to save your ass???? When you have to deal with the shit we do on a daily basis...and never know when you will be shot at, stabbed or burned alive...then you can get paid more.

Right, and no city in Arizona is very big, either. Just like I said.

News flash!!!!! EVERYONE thinks they should be paid well. EVERYONE can make a laundry list like you did about their job and why they should be paid better. On the other hand, not everyone is set for the rest of their life like a cop or a fireman.

 

[Grizzly]

Dionysus-

Do you realize that your argument boils down to, "We, the American people, need jobs. You, businessmen, have to give us jobs because we need them. Because we need them, you need to provide them."

I didn't realize that need entitled you to anything. I need a fucking blow job. Doesn't mean that the girl with the big titties in the office has to give it to me, eventhough she really should.

 

[ForemanRules]

Right, and no city in Arizona is very big, either. Just like I said.

News flash!!!!! EVERYONE thinks they should be paid well. EVERYONE can make a laundry list like you did about their job and why they should be paid better. On the other hand, not everyone is set for the rest of their life like a cop or a fireman.

Look up the top 10 biggest citys and then tell me whereI live is a small city ( I put a link for that info below) .....plus look up the average cops pay......if you think it is 65K think again......give me pay and a cost of living break down in all the places you think a cops pay is so great.

http://www.city-data.com/toplists.html


So #6 in America is a small city

Next time you wife is raped, you have an intruder in your home or your house is on fire call a store manager to come over and save you....LMAO

 

[Dionysus]

Dionysus-

Do you realize that your argument boils down to, "We, the American people, need jobs. You, businessmen, have to give us jobs because we need them. Because we need them, you need to provide them."

I didn't realize that need entitled you to anything. I need a fucking blow job. Doesn't mean that the girl with the big titties in the office has to give it to me, eventhough she really should.

mmmmmmm, no. Wrong again.

More like: The American business' that makes billions of dollars a year selling their products in America should in turn invest in the American economy by employing American workers at a rate determined to be the industry standard.

Fair?

In doing so we create an economic environment condusive to spending and saving.

However by foriegn outsourcing hundreds of thousands of jobs every year we are creating what will soon amount to mass unemployment and render into poverty the majority of the middle class.

...all stemming from corporate greed.

I understand the economics of business is to make money, however we have a Nation to run here also, and we must hold Big Business to a higher standard so that we secure a future for our children.

 

[Dionysus]

Look up the top 10 biggest citys and then tell me whereI live is a small city ( I put a link for that info below) .....plus look up the average cops pay......if you think it is 65K think again......give me pay and a cost of living break down in all the places you think a cops pay is so great.

http://www.city-data.com/toplists.html


So #6 in America is a small city

Next time you wife is raped, you have an intruder in your home or your house is on fire call a store manager to come over and save you....LMAO

LOL

 

[Grizzly]

Well, should I get the position with Chicago's department, it's 57k in 18 months. I don't remember the full top out, but it was in the 60's. Same with New York. Most departments I've seen start low to mid-forties and climb to high 50's/low 60's, all within 5-7 years. That's pretty friggin' good.

My bad about the city thing. I had forgotten that Phoenix was so big.