Iran?

[Dionysus]

You're arguing against a pervasive anti-Western philosophy, beefy, ol' buddy. Nothing the west, particularly the US, does is right. The only people who have a right to the opinion that they are superior and right are little brown militants who wish to remove reason as the guiding force of society and replace it with faith in an invisible being.(uhhhh, I may have went into a bit of an op/ed there, but whatever)

Point is, when Indians(with a dot not a feather) farm with friggin' oxen instead of a John Deere, they are celebrated for "embracing their culture" or whatever nonsense the hippies spout. But then, we, the producers, those smart enough to use technology to create greater yields, are vilified for having so much.

Fuck that! You want to farm like they did in the 13th century, then you eat like it too.

Interesting viewpoint.
John Deere operates 17 facilities in the US.
John Deere operates 58 facilities outside of the US.
Thus, like most big business, the bulk of their profits come from the international market.
Defacto: Globalization means that one day that little brown militants offspring will be your offsprings boss.
Unfortunately.
http://www.deere.com/en_US/deerecom/media/pdf/johndeere_worldwide/worldwide_map.pdf

 

[ForemanRules]

The World Trade Organization is a giant international bureaucracy whose goal is to help businesses by enforcing free trade: the freedom of transnationals to do business however they see fit. The WTO places this freedom above all other freedoms, including the freedom to:

eat
drink water
not eat certain things
treat the sick
protect the environment
grow your own crops
organize a trade union
maintain social services
govern
have a foreign policy

All of these freedoms are under attack by huge corporations working under the veil of free trade, that mysterious right that we are told must trump all others. (Today, that is; in their developing years, the United States, Britain, and all other industrialized nations heavily protected their industries.)

 

[Dionysus]

If we allow corporate greed to give away our right to the "American Dream", then we dont deserve it.
Only the strong survive.

 

[ForemanRules]

The World Development Movement (WDM) tackles the underlying causes of poverty. We lobby decision makers to change the policies that keep people poor. We research and promote positive alternatives. We work alongside people in the developing world who are standing up to injustice.

The world has the wealth and means to end poverty. Yet nearly half of the world's population live on less than £1.40 a day. And over 11 million children will die from poverty-related illness this year alone.

Policies of governments and companies are keeping people poor. Policies that ensure global trade benefits the rich, not the poor.The three richest men in the world are wealthier than the 48 poorest countries combined. Policies that give increasing power to multinational companies. For every £1 of aid going into poor countries, multinationals take 66p of profits out.

The powerful are exploiting the poor to make bigger and bigger profits. Unless we challenge them, we are allowing this injustice to continue. In rich countries like Britain, decisions are made which can make or break the lives of the poor. We can influence those decisions. That's why our action matters so much.

WDM campaigns against the root causes
of poverty

We lobby decision-makers to stop policies that hurt the world’s poor. We research and develop new, positive policy options that support sustainable development.

WDM challenges the powerful

We mobilise consumers, shareholders and governments to hold multinational companies accountable for abuses of power. We are lobbing for reform of the World Trade Organisation (WTO). We support people in the developing world who are standing up to injustice.

WDM changes agendas

After years of campaigning, debt cancellation is now on the international agenda. WDM’s High Court victory over the Government stopped British aid budgets being used to support the arms trade instead of the poor. These are just two examples of WDM's campaign successes.

Read our Annual Review for 2004

How WDM works
Founded in 1970, WDM is a democratic movement of individual supporters, campaigners and local groups. Much of our work is in partnership with other organisations in the UK and around the world.

WDM produces a range of campaign resources to inform
the public and lobby decision-makers. And we send our supporters and local groups regular mailings with campaign actions to take and our quarterly magazine Action.

WDM has an active network of local groups across the UK. We have offices, in London and Edinburgh, staffed by professional campaigners and volunteers. The direction of WDM's work is decided by our elected Council.

Two thirds of WDM's income is provided by donations from our supporters. We also receive funding from grant-making bodies and trusts. The World Development Movement Trust is WDM's associated charity that provides funds for WDM's research and education on the causes of poverty and possible solutions.

You can help win real and lasting change for the world's poorest people by supporting WDM. You'll be part of an active network of supporters, groups and campaigners, who all want a fairer world. We're a small organisation that gets big results. And we can only do it with the support of people like you.

 

[Dionysus]

So what your genius proposition must then logically be is for the gov't to forbid companies from moving operations overseas. That's a great idea! Downright capitalistic of you, guvnuh. Shit, you're such a greedy capitalist pig that you resemble a character right out of a Dickens novel.

I believe the governments first and foremost concerns should be AMERICA and jobs for AMERICANS.
Fuck the greedy corperate ga-zillionaires.


...oh, and how does that makes me a capitalist? A nationalist perhaps?

 

[Kayz]

All of the stupid brainwashed flag-waving dim-wits will have only themselves to thank for allowing our government to continue its pogrom of greed and blatant corruption.
Our so called "great" leaders are quickly selling us down the river through free trade agreements and globalization.

The US is rapidly becoming a consumer-only nation, with little or no production or exports.

All of our jobs are going to china, india and mexico. Just look at a few labels, everything is made in china.
Our domestic cars are even being outsourced. My GMC truck was made in canada.

.

So buy a Toyota...they are made in Kentucky and are a better quality car. If that doesn't suit your needs, buy a Honda...they are made in Ohio...and they too are of a higher quality.

Why is it that Toyota and Honda can make money in the states, but GM and Ford (the powerhouses of the Detroit auto era) post multi-billion dollar losses?? It is a combination of greedy execs, greedy union reps, and greedy union workers who feel they are ENTITLED to $24/hour because their great grandaddy got them a job after they dropped out of high school in the ninth grade.

The biggest reason GM and Ford are failing though is that they have relied on the same business model since 1960, which never took into account that one day there would be a global economy and they would be competing with other countries on US soil. GM never adapted to the environment and they have been left behind. For decades, Ford, GM, and Chrysler operated on the assumption that Americans would always "buy American", and that is no longer the case. Shame on them.

 

[swing]

So what your genius proposition must then logically be is for the gov't to forbid companies from moving operations overseas. That's a great idea! Downright capitalistic of you, guvnuh. Shit, you're such a greedy capitalist pig that you resemble a character right out of a Dickens novel.

Hell yeah! A significant number of corporations receive significant tax cuts, and what are they doing? They're closing shop on American soil, so they can move overseas. In short, they're receiving huge incentives to relocate abroad, leaving American workers in the cold.

 

[Kayz]

Interesting viewpoint.
John Deere operates 17 facilities in the US.
John Deere operates 58 facilities outside of the US.
Thus, like most big business, the bulk of their profits come from the international market.
Defacto: Globalization means that one day that little brown militants offspring will be your offsprings boss.
Unfortunately.
http://www.deere.com/en_US/deerecom/media/pdf/johndeere_worldwide/worldwide_map.pdf

...so go to college, do well, and make yourself so valuable to the company that they will not be able to afford to let you walk. Don't use a global economy as a crutch as to why you can't get ahead (and by "you", I mean people in general, not you specifically).

The global economy is upon us and it will never go away. Deal with it. As an American business owner, I feel that I have the right to do business with whom I please, where I please, and who I hire. I definitely do not feel OBLIGATED of hire Americans because I've had many American workers stab me in the fucking back. Shame on me for allowing it to happen, but I'd much rather pay 10 Mexicans $10 hour than 10 Americans $5 hour if I know for sure the job will get done right and on time. My peace of mind is worth that.

 

[Kayz]

If we allow corporate greed to give away our right to the "American Dream", then we dont deserve it.
Only the strong survive.

That is where you are wrong my friend. The "American Dream" is not an inherent RIGHT!!!! It is earned thru hard work, education, and dedication. Just because you are an American does not make you entitled to shit.

Who is the most educated demographic in the USA??? The Asians.

Who takes the most amount of pride in their jobs in the USA??? The Asians (although we could debate this, I dont' think American workers are even in the same league.)

Who are some of the hardest workers in the USA??? The Asians. (again, we could debate this, but the Americans don't stand a chance).

....and finally, what is the wealthiest demographic in the USA???? You guessed it ...... Asians!!!!

See a pattern here??

 

[Kayz]

Hell yeah! A significant number of corporations receive significant tax cuts, and what are they doing? They're closing shop on American soil, so they can move overseas. In short, they're receiving huge incentives to relocate abroad, leaving American workers in the cold.

I will tell you who is driving more jobs out of this country than anybody, and it has nothing to do with American businesses WANTING to leave the states to move overseas. It is the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

I worked very closely with the EPA on a daily basis and they are making it absolutely impossible to do business in this country.

I can cite business after business who has left this country as a direct result of being fed up with the ridiculous regulations of the EPA.

And dont' give me the whole "...if we didn't have the EPA, we'd ahve dirty water...blah blah blah."

The EPA is a little thiefdom that answers to NOONE because no politician will go against the EPA for fear of the other side labelling them "anti-environment". The EPA hands out fines on a daily basis that absolutley bankrupts companies...and I have been witness to this first hand. And I'm not talking about major health violations...I'm talking about errors on paper labels that could easily be changed.

Big business is fed up with the insane regulations and they are opening up shop in Mexico. My company dealt with this scenario first-hand about 4 years ago. Our supplier did not want to leave the US, but the EPA was requring them to dump over $40 million into one of their production plants to meet new requirements that were above and beyond what any company could accomplish in the short amount of time they were given. So, they laid off 195 workers, built a brand new state-of-the-art plant in Mexico for $4 million. We were receiving our product DELIVERED FROM MEXICO 23% LESS than what we were paying for them to be shipped from Michigan!!!!

 

[Dionysus]

That is where you are wrong my friend. The "American Dream" is not an inherent RIGHT!!!! It is earned thru hard work, education, and dedication. Just because you are an American does not make you entitled to shit.

Who is the most educated demographic in the USA??? The Asians.

Who takes the most amount of pride in their jobs in the USA??? The Asians (although we could debate this, I dont' think American workers are even in the same league.)

Who are some of the hardest workers in the USA??? The Asians. (again, we could debate this, but the Americans don't stand a chance).

....and finally, what is the wealthiest demographic in the USA???? You guessed it ...... Asians!!!!

See a pattern here??

Where did the Asians get their technology?
The Americans.

Also, Asia has one of the lowest gaps between a CEO's pay and the workers pay. A plus for the Asians.
America has one of the highest gaps, meaning a CEO could be earning tens of millions when his employees earn minimum wage and no benifits.

Anyway, You won't get an arguement from me, pal. I agree with you.
But just check once on the average standard of living in China. Its a far cry from what we are used to.
American unions fought long and hard to win better pay and better working conditions for their members. To throw it all away would be a crime. Unfortunately, some unions are not good. Others are. Its a mixed bag.

 

[Dionysus]

but I'd much rather pay 10 Mexicans $10 hour than 10 Americans $5 hour if I know for sure the job will get done right and on time. My peace of mind is worth that.

If you hire illegals then in my book you are a piece of shit scumbag. Sorry, no offense, that is my opinion.

Look once at the diseases and crime that these illegals bring with them over our borders. Look at the huge drain on the welfare system and on the Hospitals... Look at the gang problems that are frequently fueled by the children of illegals...
THESE PEOPLE DONT PAY TAX BUT THEY GET WELFARE AND FREE MEDICAL TREATMENT! Shit, I've even heard they can get social security.

My parents came from Germany with nothing, became citizens, LEARNED ENGLISH, started a profitable business that employs only AMERICANS, and managed to raise 4 successful children.

If you have a hard time managing American employees, move your business to Mexico, its a beautiful place, or better yet learn how to effectively manage people. We did, and I'm sure we are no better than you.


P.S. I mean no offense to any immigrants trying to do the right thing and find a better life. Just do it the right way. No excuses.

 

[Kayz]

Where did the Asians get their technology?
The Americans.
.

...and this is exactly my point. There is nothing better than American ingenuity and know-how. America has develop much of the finest technology this world has ever seen, but Americans are not the ones using it. How many American math majors are there?? How many Americans major in physics, mechanical engineering, materials engineering, electrical engineering, computer science???? Not very many, but foreigners are so thirsty for this education they will gladly leave every thing they know just to have a shot at the "American Dream". Meanwhile, American kids are busy playing video games, debating on Meso, and being fat and lazy....traits that a majority inherit from their parents!!!!

While the American Dream is not a right, it is laid at the feet of a vast majority of American youths. They are just too damn lazy and stupid to seize the opportunity and the world passes them by. 25 years later they are bitching that some "chink" became supervisor at the local mill and laid them off!!! It's always somebody's elses fault.

 

[Dionysus]

...and this is exactly my point. There is nothing better than American ingenuity and know-how. America has develop much of the finest technology this world has ever seen, but Americans are not the ones using it. How many American math majors are there?? How many Americans major in physics, mechanical engineering, materials engineering, electrical engineering, computer science???? Not very many, but foreigners are so thirsty for this education they will gladly leave every thing they know just to have a shot at the "American Dream". Meanwhile, American kids are busy playing video games, debating on Meso, and being fat and lazy....traits that a majority inherit from their parents!!!!

While the American Dream is not a right, it is laid at the feet of a vast majority of American youths. They are just too damn lazy and stupid to seize the opportunity and the world passes them by. 25 years later they are bitching that some "chink" became supervisor at the local mill and laid them off!!! It's always somebody's elses fault.

Well, I cant argue with that point, other than it is the responsability of the parents to raise their children properly, that means motivating them also.

 

[Kayz]

If you hire illegals then in my book you are a piece of shit scumbag. Sorry, no offense, that is my opinion.

Look once at the diseases and crime that these illegals bring with them over our borders. Look at the huge drain on the welfare system and on the Hospitals... Look at the gang problems that are frequently fueled by the children of illegals...
THESE PEOPLE DONT PAY TAX BUT THEY GET WELFARE AND FREE MEDICAL TREATMENT! Shit, I've even heard they can get social security.

My parents came from Germany with nothing, became citizens, LEARNED ENGLISH, started a profitable business that employs only AMERICANS, and managed to raise 4 successful children.

If you have a hard time managing American employees, move your business to Mexico, its a beautiful place, or better yet learn how to effectively manage people. We did, and I'm sure we are no better than you.

So then my businesses should suffer and my family should suffer because I'm morally obligated to hire Americans even if they are incapable and incompetent??? That is just fucking retarded. And if that makes me a piece of shit, then so be it. I'll say it again, I'd rather a hard-working Mexican than a free-loader like you who thinks the world owes him a career.

I will agree that illegals are a drain on the economy in many aspects, but I'm not promoting the hire of illegals....I'm promoting the hire of legal immigrants who have done it the right way and do pay taxes. I would not hire illegals....ever!!!! However, there are many black and white people who have diseases, commit crime, defraud social security, and commit gang violence. I dont' think illegals are responsible for all that....just take a look at the black communities.

My grandparents are from Germany as well. My grandpa was a tile and marble mason and raised 5 boys-one has a PhD in chemistry, one is an admiral in the coast guard, one retired a captain in the coast guard, one is a computer engineer, and one (my dad) is a self-made millionaire many times over by running several fantastically successful companies. My parents instilled the same work ethic in me and they raised 2 very successful boys.

I never said I have a hard time managing my employees. All I said is that I do not feel obligated to hire Americans just becuase they are an American. I will do what is best for my company, and if that means hiring an Asian or a legal Hispanic, then so be it. I currently run one of my families businesses and it too is extremely successful. So much so that we just invested $5 million in a new plant....in America!!!!

 

[Dionysus]

I will do what is best for my company, and if that means hiring an Asian or a legal Hispanic, then so be it.

Uh, I guess we are having a slight communication problem bubba. Let me clarify for you that a LEGAL asian or a LEGAL hispanic are both indeed AMERICANs.


pheww... just had to get that out...

Re-read what I wrote, if you hire legals then my post clearly does not apply to you.

Right?

 

[Kayz]

Maybe we are, but re-read my posts. I was never talking about illegals. I just simply stated that I'd rather hire Mexicans over Americans if I knew the job would get done quicker and better....and you called me a piece of shit and assumed I was speaking of illegals.

It was indeed a misunderstanding.

 

[Kayz]

...and just for the record, I don't employee a single Hispanic or Asian. My work force consists of about 60-70 employees. Off the top of my head, I'd say 20-25 of them are black...and the rest are white. I have 5 supervisors.....3 of them are black (and 2 of them are over the age of 60 and have been with the company since before I was born). I have a great employees whom do us a good job, so I've never had to look elsewhere. however, if there ever came a time (and I see it coming) when the decent workers in my area dried up, I would not hesitate to look elsewhere.

 

[ForemanRules]

...and just for the record, I don't employee a single Hispanic or Asian. My work force consists of about 60-70 employees. Off the top of my head, I'd say 20-25 of them are black...and the rest are white. I have 5 supervisors.....3 of them are black (and 2 of them are over the age of 60 and have been with the company since before I was born). I have a great employees whom do us a good job, so I've never had to look elsewhere. however, if there ever came a time (and I see it coming) when the decent workers in my area dried up, I would not hesitate to look elsewhere.

Spoken like a true sell out

 

[Dionysus]

So then my businesses should suffer and my family should suffer because I'm morally obligated to hire Americans even if they are incapable and incompetent???

I think you might be getting a bit dramatic. If you follow a typical Japanese business plan and pay your employees well, give them good benni's and treat them with equal respect, you'll never have a problem finding good Americans to work for you.

It boils down to proper ethics and the belief that the CEO ultimately is no more important than the worker.

The theory goes like so: The white collar worker relys on the blue collar worker to bulid the bridges, roads, farms, buildings, repair his car, furnace, work in his factories, etc.
The Blue collar worker in turn relys on the white collar worker for jobs, medical services, opportunities and so on.

Neither could exist without the other, thus both are equally important.

Now, while the High achievers should be duely compensated, it should not be at the expense of workers benni's and wages. When it does, it upsets the balance of life.

This I believe is something that our government has forgotten, or has chosen to ignore.

I believe in most cases it is plain ol' greed that leads companys to hire illegals...

And greed is wrong no matter how you try to justify it.