Iran?

[oldtimer]

They should allow everyone to have nukes. I mean think about it, if you had a small "nuke pistol". If someone pisses you off, don't just shoot a hole in his head; shoot a hole in his entire neighbouhood!

Joking aside, a country having nukes or not means nothing, we're in a stage where if a country fires one nuke, it's game over, it's a world war on steroids (no pun intended).

Having said the above, yeah I too hope that Iran doesn't develop nukes, they are right next door .

 

[Bob Smith]

If you want to talk about a country threatening global stability, I challenge any person to name a single country that has engaged in more global conflicts in the 20th century than our beloved country. Anyone up for the challenge?

Who is the first country that everyone calls when something goes wrong in the world? The United States. Who bitches when the US doesnt want to help? Everyone else in the world. Natural disaster in Indonesia, lets call the Americans and ask for money. Earthquake in Pakistan? Get the Americans on the phone. AIDS in Africa? Those Americans will help us. A lot of countries hate us, or at least dislike us, yet we are the first ones they run to when something happens to them.

To me, thats a bad problem to have. Most countries want our help when a problem arises, and they want our money when a disaster occurs. Id rather be much more selective in who we help militarily and much less involved financially.

 

[Beefy]

Whether or not I agree with our government's foreign policy, or if I like the current President, or if the economy is great, etc...I am an American. A citizen of the undeniably greatest country in the history of the world.

What happened to our (United States citizens) since of nationalism? Why do we even care what Iran or France or China thinks of us? Who gives a shit if we are bullies? That's for the rest of the world to worry about, since we are the only superpower.

It's really sad that we've got so many fools running around screaming about other countries' rights and how the U.S. sucks. Wake up and be greatful that you're a citizen of the United States of America.

 

[swing]

Whether or not I agree with our government's foreign policy, or if I like the current President, or if the economy is great, etc...I am an American. A citizen of the undeniably greatest country in the history of the world.

What happened to our (United States citizens) since of nationalism? Why do we even care what Iran or France or China thinks of us? Who gives a shit if we are bullies? That's for the rest of the world to worry about, since we are the only superpower.

It's really sad that we've got so many fools running around screaming about other countries' rights and how the U.S. sucks. Wake up and be greatful that you're a citizen of the United States of America.

I served in the military. However, my loyalty is first and foremost to truth and justice. If you do not care about your fellow human beings than you sir have some serious issues to overcome. I care how our government's foreign policies affect others, eventually it will come back to haunts us.

If the US hadn't interferred with Iran during the Shah's reign, or assisted Saddam in power we wouldn't be in this mess we are in now. But people like you do not believe in governmental responsibility. But you'll start crying when your children or grandchildren are killed because of today's governmental conduct.

 

[ForemanRules]

I served in the military. However, my loyalty is first and foremost to truth and justice. If you do not care about your fellow human beings than you sir have some serious issues to overcome. I care how our government's foreign policies affect others, eventually it will come back to haunts us.

If the US hadn't interferred with Iran during the Shah's reign, or assisted Saddam in power we wouldn't be in this mess we are in now. But people like you do not believe in governmental responsibility. But you'll start crying when your children or grandchildren are killed because of today's governmental conduct.

Great post!!!!!

 

[Kayz]

I served in the military. However, my loyalty is first and foremost to truth and justice. If you do not care about your fellow human beings than you sir have some serious issues to overcome. I care how our government's foreign policies affect others, eventually it will come back to haunts us.

If the US hadn't interferred with Iran during the Shah's reign, or assisted Saddam in power we wouldn't be in this mess we are in now. But people like you do not believe in governmental responsibility. But you'll start crying when your children or grandchildren are killed because of today's governmental conduct.

blah, blah, blah....and if Christopher Fucking Columbus hadn't set sail in 1492, it's likely none of us would live in this great country. We can play monday morning quarterback all day long, but that adds nothing to the debate.

Iran has called for the destruction of Israel, which is one of our strongest allies. Iran had better be fucking happy that the US is still working with the EU and the UN (which is a joke of an organization), because we are the only thing stopping Isreal from fucking annihilating Iran. Iran has called for the destruction of the western Zionists (HMMMMM.....I wander who that is).

I too agree that if a fight is inevitable, land the first blow....and make it decisive!! It is quite obvious to me that Iran will never get along with the US, most of Europe, nor Israel. "Peaceful negotiations" are a lost cause in most parts of the middle east because those regimes do not desire Peace. Look at N. Korea, Kim Jong Il rules thru fear and he runs a fantastic propaganda machine that has the citizens of N. Korea convinced that the US is coming to kill them in their sleep. These people are so afraid of what will happen to them that they NEED Kim Jong Il to protect them....they would not know what to do without him. Yet they are so sheltered from the real world that they do not have the capacity to reason for themselves that they just might be better off without him.

And I know that the flip side to all this is that the "US is the biggest terrorist state in the world....we kill more innocent people than any other country." Well we never asked to be the world police, but we are so live with it. We also do a lot of good for countries. Now I know that that does not make up for the innocent lives lost, but lets be reasonable. What is the alternative??? Leave the middle east altogether?? Leave Cuba??? Leave Africa??? Leave the Phillipines??? Leave Indonesia??? Sure, we can do that...but if our troops leave,......our money, food, medicine, doctors, etc. leave too. Would that go over well??? Probably not because the countries we speak of are 5000 years older than the US and they are so technologically inferior to the US, which is 230 years old, that it is downright frightening.

Hell, look at Palestine and Hamas. The US and the EU have already threatened sanctions and cutting off aid to Palestine and the Palestinians are fucking crying in their beers. All of a sudden Hamas wants to negotiate an aid package and they will abide by all international law.....yeah fucking right?????

...and if my son or grandson died in Iraq, I'd certainly be upset...but I'd be proud that he fought for his country and I would want his colleagues to finish the job so that he did not die in vain.

 

[swing]

You're talking about peace...name one single country in the 20th century that has warred with the global community more than the US...I challenge you! Peace is not installing and supporting corrupt regimes. The US is well aware of atrocities these dictators are committing, and what do we do? Give them more money as long as they fulfill our bidding. You have absolutely zero sense of humanity. Let the US withdraw our troops, medical supplies, money, etc leave. The only individuals benefitting are the dictators. I've travelled to more than 20 countries, and the OVERWHELMING majority of the populations have stated they want us out of their country. We're like parasites, everywhere we go we cause mayhem.

This country was great, and can become great again once we get our heads out of our butts. Our government is so detached from reality, that Rice is saying "we had no idea that the Palestinian people were so fed up with Fatah." Duh, dummy...where have you been the last 2 years? And, we did ask to become the global military police, this was the intentions since Theodore Roosevelt was in office. Power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And how in the hell is going to someone's crippled country, and picking a war with them "defending our country?" There was absolutely no aggression committed by Iraq, nor did they pose any threat to us.

We are on the same inevitable path of self-destruction as the former USSR. The same manner in which they were unable to defeat Afghanistan and Chechnya, is the same way we are unable to militarily defeat the insurgents in Iraq.

You can speak about attacking Iran all you want. This displays your lack of knowledge concerning the subject. It would not be in our best interest for Israel, nor ourselves to attack Iran. Why? Because Iran is predominately Shia. Guess what? So is Syria, Lebanon, and most importantly Iraq. If we have our hands full with the Sunni minority in Iraq, what do you think would happen if the Shia in Iraq begin attacking the troops. Not to mention Shia fighters from Lebanon, and elsewhere? A Pentagon report issued last week stated "the US Army is stretched to its breaking point." And you people want another war. You put on an Army uniform and go fight the battles!

 

[ForemanRules]

You're talking about peace...name one single country in the 20th century that has warred with the global community more than the US...I challenge you! Peace is not installing and supporting corrupt regimes. The US is well aware of atrocities these dictators are committing, and what do we do? Give them more money as long as they fulfill our bidding. You have absolutely zero sense of humanity. Let the US withdraw our troops, medical supplies, money, etc leave. The only individuals benefitting are the dictators. I've travelled to more than 20 countries, and the OVERWHELMING majority of the populations have stated they want us out of their country. We're like parasites, everywhere we go we cause mayhem.

This country was great, and can become great again once we get our heads out of our butts. Our government is so detached from reality, that Rice is saying "we had no idea that the Palestinian people were so fed up with Fatah." Duh, dummy...where have you been the last 2 years? And, we did ask to become the global military police, this was the intentions since Theodore Roosevelt was in office. Power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And how in the hell is going to someone's crippled country, and picking a war with them "defending our country?" There was absolutely no aggression committed by Iraq, nor did they pose any threat to us.

We are on the same inevitable path of self-destruction as the former USSR. The same manner in which they were unable to defeat Afghanistan and Chechnya, is the same way we are unable to militarily defeat the insurgents in Iraq.

You can speak about attacking Iran all you want. This displays your lack of knowledge concerning the subject. It would not be in our best interest for Israel, nor ourselves to attack Iran. Why? Because Iran is predominately Shia. Guess what? So is Syria, Lebanon, and most importantly Iraq. If we have our hands full with the Sunni minority in Iraq, what do you think would happen if the Shia in Iraq begin attacking the troops. Not to mention Shia fighters from Lebanon, and elsewhere? A Pentagon report issued last week stated "the US Army is stretched to its breaking point." And you people want another war. You put on an Army uniform and go fight the battles!

Great post....the only thing I disagree with is: that you said " This country was great, and can become great again "...read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States and then tell me when America was just and great???

 

[Kayz]

Great post....the only thing I disagree with is: that you said " This country was great, and can become great again "...read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States and then tell me when America was just and great???

LOL....you read one book and can say with a straight face that America is NOT just and great??? Wow. I too could do a google and find really long articles to support any point I make. I could also cite books that support my point. HOwever, you have yet to make a point or offer your own take/opinion...all you have done is criticized everyone else's opinions while offering no original thoughts. I'm interested in what YOU think...what should we do (if anything) with Iran??? How should we handle Palestine and Isreal???

Look, I'm not saying that America has never done bad things and killed/harmed innocent civilians, but to label this country as unjust is a little over the top IMO. It is very easy for people to point out the negative all the time, but difficult to admit that the US does more good for the world and it's other nations than any 2 countries combined. Everything is relative. It's this constant doom and gloom that makes me sick. Nothing in life is perfect, but you have to deal with things the way they are. Hell, this conversation would not even be permitted in many of the countries we speak of. Everyone on this board always says "..if you support the war, then you go over there a fight it." Well, if you don't like this country and feel that it has been unjust since it's creation, then leave!!!! You, Streisand, Penn, and Baldwin can hang out in a 3rd world country.

 

[Grizzly]

I don't know. My Enlish history ain't the greatest, but I do believe it wasn't until the middle of the 20th century that the sun set on the Brittish Empire. They were warring and imperializing well up into the 50's. I think they could give us a run for our money.

 

[Beefy]

I'm confused. Are any of the people posting in this thread living outside of the US? Are you from another country originally, and now you live here in America? I don't understand how someone could be a citizen of the most dominant nation ever and be pissed about how dominant their nation is.

How does that work? What would be your happy alternative to the US domination? Maybe life would be better if some how Iran dominated the globe as we do. Instead of forcing "free speech democratic" government down everyone's throat the world would have a towel wrapped around its head and be forced to pray facing east three times daily or else die.

And the US is in no way economically similar to the USSR. We are a capitalist based economy with free speech and free religion, unlike the USSR's communist dictatorship.

 

[Grizzly]

"Dear Editor:

As Iran removed UN seals at some of its atomic research sites and proceeded with its nuclear program, German newspapers reported that the United States is coordinating with NATO for a possible military action against Iran.

As the fatherland of Islamic totalitarianism, Iran should have been our main target in this war.

In taking military action, our goal should not be to bring Iranians the vote, but to destroy the Iranian regime and the cause it fights for. We must instill fear in every person who aids or fights for Islamic totalitarianism.

We have ignored the Iranian threat for far too long. When we did the same with Afghanistan and bin Laden, we lost the Twin Towers. We can't afford to keep appeasing Iran and risk losing New York.

Yaron Brook"

That about sums up my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Beefy]

I've travelled to more than 20 countries, and the OVERWHELMING majority of the populations have stated they want us out of their country. We're like parasites, everywhere we go we cause mayhem.

Power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

They want us out because we are using them to our benefit. We are there for our own interests. And why else should/would we be there? Did Rome conquer Gaul to benefit the Germanics? Maybe Caesar told a few cheifs the same tired line we tell everyone we occupy and use, "We're here to help."

Power does corrupt, but I am very thankful that I am a citizen of the power and not someone in another country at the mercy of the US.

Throughout history tribes, kingdoms, and nations have warred for control of the scarce resources available. This will never end. If/when the US is no longer dominant, someone else will be. The world will never exist in peace with everybody sharing.

But the reason you even own a computer and have access to the internet and sleep in a bed and drive a car and essentially live like a prince compared to most of the world is because the US dominates. If you feel so strongly about sharing, why don't you sell your computer, buy some rice, and send it to someone in Albania or Honduras or some other shit hole country that we've exploited like parasites to benefit from their inferiority.

 

[Grizzly]

They want us out because we are using them to our benefit. We are there for our own interests. And why else should/would we be there? Did Rome conquer Gaul to benefit the Germanics? Maybe Caesar told a few cheifs the same tired line we tell everyone we occupy and use, "We're here to help."

Power does corrupt, but I am very thankful that I am a citizen of the power and not someone in another country at the mercy of the US.

Throughout history tribes, kingdoms, and nations have warred for control of the scarce resources available. This will never end. If/when the US is no longer dominant, someone else will be. The world will never exist in peace with everybody sharing.

But the reason you even own a computer and have access to the internet and sleep in a bed and drive a car and essentially live like a prince compared to most of the world is because the US dominates. If you feel so strongly about sharing, why don't you sell your computer, buy some rice, and send it to someone in Albania or Honduras or some other shit hole country that we've exploited like parasites to benefit from their inferiority.

You're arguing against a pervasive anti-Western philosophy, beefy, ol' buddy. Nothing the west, particularly the US, does is right. The only people who have a right to the opinion that they are superior and right are little brown militants who wish to remove reason as the guiding force of society and replace it with faith in an invisible being.(uhhhh, I may have went into a bit of an op/ed there, but whatever)

Point is, when Indians(with a dot not a feather) farm with friggin' oxen instead of a John Deere, they are celebrated for "embracing their culture" or whatever nonsense the hippies spout. But then, we, the producers, those smart enough to use technology to create greater yields, are vilified for having so much.

Fuck that! You want to farm like they did in the 13th century, then you eat like it too.

 

[ForemanRules]

LOL....you read one book and can say with a straight face that America is NOT just and great??? Wow. I too could do a google and find really long articles to support any point I make. I could also cite books that support my point. HOwever, you have yet to make a point or offer your own take/opinion...all you have done is criticized everyone else's opinions while offering no original thoughts. I'm interested in what YOU think...what should we do (if anything) with Iran??? (I answered that question in my first post...go back and read it) How should we handle Palestine and Isreal???

Look, I'm not saying that America has never done bad things and killed/harmed innocent civilians, but to label this country as unjust is a little over the top IMO. It is very easy for people to point out the negative all the time, but difficult to admit that the US does more good for the world and it's other nations than any 2 countries combined. Everything is relative. It's this constant doom and gloom that makes me sick. Nothing in life is perfect, but you have to deal with things the way they are. Hell, this conversation would not even be permitted in many of the countries we speak of. Everyone on this board always says "..if you support the war, then you go over there a fight it." Well, if you don't like this country and feel that it has been unjust since it's creation, then leave!!!! You, Streisand, Penn, and Baldwin can hang out in a 3rd world country.

More like a few dozen books...the best way to be educated is to read from a varity of sources, if all a person did was read government approved history books then they don't know anything about American history......thats like watching Top Gun and thinking you know how to fly a jet...

I agree that most countrys have many dark and dirty things in their historys........but we are not talking about All countries here.

 

[Kayz]

More like a few dozen books...the best way to be educated is to read from a varity of sources, if all a person did was read government approved history books then they don't know anything about American history......thats like watching Top Gun and thinking you know how to fly a jet...

I agree that most countrys have many dark and dirty things in their historys........but we are not talking about All countries here.

I too read a great number of books on a wide variety of topics...both conservative and liberal. I agree that one must see both sides before forming a truly educated opinion. Have you ever read a book in which the US is looked upon favorably for the good things they do??

 

[ForemanRules]

I too read a great number of books on a wide variety of topics...both conservative and liberal. I agree that one must see both sides before forming a truly educated opinion. Have you ever read a book in which the US is looked upon favorably for the good things they do??

Yes.....every book I read in school from grades 1-16 was extremly positive about America.

 

[Dionysus]

All of the stupid brainwashed flag-waving dim-wits will have only themselves to thank for allowing our government to continue its pogrom of greed and blatant corruption.
Our so called "great" leaders are quickly selling us down the river through free trade agreements and globalization.

The US is rapidly becoming a consumer-only nation, with little or no production or exports.

All of our jobs are going to china, india and mexico. Just look at a few labels, everything is made in china.
Our domestic cars are even being outsourced. My GMC truck was made in canada.

Brazil is now the #1 exporter of food.

The neo-conservative push in our government wants to open our borders to mexico to fill [Quote from GWBush] "...jobs americans won't take."
That is total BULL@$#%, its more like jobs americans can't afford to take because we have to pay for climbing property tax, medical insurance, school tuitions, etc.

Guess what that will mean for the remaining few jobs we have... Do you really believe companys will pay a fair salary and medical benifits/pensions to americans when it can just pay a mexican 10$ an hour with no bennys?

Right...

As for Iran... Lets deal in reality people. Iran poses no real nuclear threat to the US. The only threat they hold over us is that they plan on selling their oil in Euros instead of US dollars. I dont expect many of you to know the far reaching implications of that, but trust me it will affect each and every one of YOU.

Saddam started selling oil in Euros right before we invaded Iraq.

As for other problems in the middle east, simple solution is stop supporting the biggest terrorist nation: Israel. They are no friend to us, brother, plus they have nukes, let them fight their own battles! Not one drop of american blood should ever be spilled over Israel. Period.



P.S. Iran was quoted saying they plan to start selling oil in euros in March, 2006. If I had to put up money, my bet would be shortly after that happens we attack.

 

[Grizzly]

All of the stupid brainwashed flag-waving dim-wits will have only themselves to thank for allowing our government to continue its pogrom of greed and blatant corruption.
Our so called "great" leaders are quickly selling us down the river through free trade agreements and globalization.

The US is rapidly becoming a consumer-only nation, with little or no production or exports.

All of our jobs are going to china, india and mexico. Just look at a few labels, everything is made in china.
Our domestic cars are even being outsourced. My GMC truck was made in canada.

So what your genius proposition must then logically be is for the gov't to forbid companies from moving operations overseas. That's a great idea! Downright capitalistic of you, guvnuh. Shit, you're such a greedy capitalist pig that you resemble a character right out of a Dickens novel.

 

[ForemanRules]

So what your genius proposition must then logically be is for the gov't to forbid companies from moving operations overseas. That's a great idea! Downright capitalistic of you, guvnuh. Shit, you're such a greedy capitalist pig that you resemble a character right out of a Dickens novel.

That would be a good start