MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Injection or Androgel? Which is better?
- Thread starter sime
- Start date
snipe
New Member
I think it's difficult to characterize one as better than another. Everybody reacts differently and each method has its pros and cons.
I passed on Androgel because transdermals are prone to be 5-Alpha reduced to DHT , something I wanted to avoid. But, this might not be a problem for you. Many have had good results.
Test. Cyp is the way I go and it has made a big difference both emotionally and physically. 100mgs/week sent my total T over 1,300. (Range= 260-1,000)
I passed on Androgel because transdermals are prone to be 5-Alpha reduced to DHT , something I wanted to avoid. But, this might not be a problem for you. Many have had good results.
Test. Cyp is the way I go and it has made a big difference both emotionally and physically. 100mgs/week sent my total T over 1,300. (Range= 260-1,000)
That's good advice, snipe.
However, the demonization of DHT does great injustice to this hormone responsible for "all things male", in favor of fatigue, timidity and erectile dysfunction.
When I am training other doctors on how to administer TRT, I always advise them to start their patients on Androgel (it is MUCH better than Testim, the other popular T gel) becasue they are more likely to cure ED with it than a dose of test cyp whihc would take them to the same total T level. Of course, it is the logistical favorite as well, by virtue of its ease of application.
BTW, your test cyp dose is too high. I would cut it back to 80mg per week.
However, the demonization of DHT does great injustice to this hormone responsible for "all things male", in favor of fatigue, timidity and erectile dysfunction.
When I am training other doctors on how to administer TRT, I always advise them to start their patients on Androgel (it is MUCH better than Testim, the other popular T gel) becasue they are more likely to cure ED with it than a dose of test cyp whihc would take them to the same total T level. Of course, it is the logistical favorite as well, by virtue of its ease of application.
BTW, your test cyp dose is too high. I would cut it back to 80mg per week.
Thanks for your replys guys. The Androgel gets my total testosterone level to the 500's. Basically I'm trying to get the highest, safest level of testosterone I can get from my doctor. Do you think that 500 is a good level when it comes to training and sexual purposes? Should it be higher? I'm 30 years old. By the way, my doctor says not to worry about estrogen because I'm on such a small dose. All replys would be greatly appreciated.SWALE said:
My history
Sime,
I've been on HRT since 2000 and work with one of the top HRT physicians in the country. I've personally tried just about everything and have found I prefer shots to the androgel, but...the key to shots is frequency of administration. In my case, I take 1/2 cc of 200mg testosterone every 5 days. This keeps me from having the peaks and troughs effects.
I have severe changes in my mental and memory functions when my T-level gets low. I literally can tell based upon abilities, when my T-level is lower then it should be.
I also believe that what is normal for one person may not be normal for another. So while there are published ranges of normal, just because you are somewhere in that range does not mean it is normal for you. You have to listen to your body and go by how you feel. I have to run at the top of the normal range to feel good and to not have any problems with memory and cognitive ability. I have another friend who runs toward the middle of the normal range, and yet he is perfectly happy at that level.
You DO NOT want to get your level to high or you get the adverse conditions, i.e. too much estrogen and it can shut down your libido...been there...done that.
As far as estrogen goes, my doc runs it along with t-levels and prolactin everytime he does a blood panel. I take arimidex 1mg MWF as my body tends to aromatize estrogen better than it is suppose to. If I don't take the arimidex, my levels are elevated above the normal range.
Anyways...my two cents...go by how you feel. Have your doctor try different levels until you determine which level works best for you. I am NOT a doctor, but have been on HRT long enough to know the ins and outs...just make sure you have a doctor familiar with HRT. Just because he can prescribe androgel does not make him an expert. Ask him...interview him...test his knowledge...I found over the years that the typical family practice physician has no real clue about HRT and thus you will find the best treatment with a doctor that has experience in treating the condition.
Good luck!
LDSlifter
The thing I hated about androgel for me was having to put it on every day. The fumes can be overwhelming. I also had a hard time getting my blood levels up while on androgel and frankly it is also very expensive if you do not have insurance.
Sime,
I've been on HRT since 2000 and work with one of the top HRT physicians in the country. I've personally tried just about everything and have found I prefer shots to the androgel, but...the key to shots is frequency of administration. In my case, I take 1/2 cc of 200mg testosterone every 5 days. This keeps me from having the peaks and troughs effects.
I have severe changes in my mental and memory functions when my T-level gets low. I literally can tell based upon abilities, when my T-level is lower then it should be.
I also believe that what is normal for one person may not be normal for another. So while there are published ranges of normal, just because you are somewhere in that range does not mean it is normal for you. You have to listen to your body and go by how you feel. I have to run at the top of the normal range to feel good and to not have any problems with memory and cognitive ability. I have another friend who runs toward the middle of the normal range, and yet he is perfectly happy at that level.
You DO NOT want to get your level to high or you get the adverse conditions, i.e. too much estrogen and it can shut down your libido...been there...done that.
As far as estrogen goes, my doc runs it along with t-levels and prolactin everytime he does a blood panel. I take arimidex 1mg MWF as my body tends to aromatize estrogen better than it is suppose to. If I don't take the arimidex, my levels are elevated above the normal range.
Anyways...my two cents...go by how you feel. Have your doctor try different levels until you determine which level works best for you. I am NOT a doctor, but have been on HRT long enough to know the ins and outs...just make sure you have a doctor familiar with HRT. Just because he can prescribe androgel does not make him an expert. Ask him...interview him...test his knowledge...I found over the years that the typical family practice physician has no real clue about HRT and thus you will find the best treatment with a doctor that has experience in treating the condition.
Good luck!
LDSlifter
The thing I hated about androgel for me was having to put it on every day. The fumes can be overwhelming. I also had a hard time getting my blood levels up while on androgel and frankly it is also very expensive if you do not have insurance.
snipe
New Member
SWALE- 1.300 was too high for my Doc's liking (I felt fine) but we cut back from 100 to 75mgs. Total T at 75 was 795. I'm currently at 85mgs and will retest in 8 weeks or so.
I agree that DHT is overly demonized but those of us whose hairline is priority tend to fixate on it. (Glaxo has a steady customer in me for Avodart.)
I'd advise others NOT to maintain subnormal DHT levels as I do.
I agree that DHT is overly demonized but those of us whose hairline is priority tend to fixate on it. (Glaxo has a steady customer in me for Avodart.)
I'd advise others NOT to maintain subnormal DHT levels as I do.
Sime--Where your optimized Total T may be different from that of others. It is a matter of what delivery system works best for you, where your DHT ends up, etc. This is why there can be no 'cookie-cutter' approach to TRT, and why I try my best to get inside all of my patient's heads as much as possible.
Also, EVERY male on TRT should have his Estradiol tested. I have seen quite a few guys with elevated E BEFORE they started TRT.
ldslifter--It looks to me like you are getting excellent medical care. You alos have a solid grasp of the concepts involved. May I ask who is providing it? Chances are I know of him.
Also, EVERY male on TRT should have his Estradiol tested. I have seen quite a few guys with elevated E BEFORE they started TRT.
ldslifter--It looks to me like you are getting excellent medical care. You alos have a solid grasp of the concepts involved. May I ask who is providing it? Chances are I know of him.
I too had a hard time getting my PCP to test estrogen levels. He kept telling me that it was a moot point as there was nothing that could be done even if it was high. I started with Swale after beginning with this quy as it was obvious to me that he was not up to speed. Unfortunately, when I eventually came clean with him that I was no longer using his medical advice and was simply sending my test results to Swale, he came unglued. (Not a good move on my part as I should have told him earlier).sime said:
Anyway, I found a new doctor and let him know that I wanted Swale to be in charge of my HRT. He was OK with this after a quick fax from Swale comfirmed this and now he does all my tests for me, handles all my general health needs, and faxes my bloodwork to Swale. It has worked out great.
BTW, I chose Test Cyp for a reason I rarely see mentioned on the boards. I have a 3 year old daughter and a son who will arrive March 26. I am hot natured and often go without a shirt around the house. I am very affectionate with my child (soon to be children) and hug her often. I did not want to take the chance, however remote, that any residual test would rub off me and enter her system. Just something to think of.
snipe
New Member
Wow, this blows my mind that a doctor would refuse to test for estrogen as jeaton's did. Then to state that it's moot because nothing can be done about it????!!!!!
I found my Doc through the Life Extension Foundation. Turned out she was on my insurance plan as well.
Before starting "real" TRT with Cyp. I tried things like DHEA & 4-AD. She was cool with these, just wanted to do labs to get quantitative results. She'll generally test for anything I request. No reason not to. I'm not saying she'll give me an Rx for just anything. She did balk when I wanted a 55 gallon drum of Upjohn Depo-Test.
I found my Doc through the Life Extension Foundation. Turned out she was on my insurance plan as well.
Before starting "real" TRT with Cyp. I tried things like DHEA & 4-AD. She was cool with these, just wanted to do labs to get quantitative results. She'll generally test for anything I request. No reason not to. I'm not saying she'll give me an Rx for just anything. She did balk when I wanted a 55 gallon drum of Upjohn Depo-Test.
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