If Democrats had their way....

[Phreezer]

IF democrats have their way??

This is a bit of an outrageous extreme isn't it?

What about when Republican's have their way?

Gas goes from a dollar a gallon to $1.87 and because of that crap bush signed with The oil companies, that price won't be coming down.
http://www.grandoldpetroleum.com/bushplan.html

Propane and Natural Gas costs have had a 150% increase along with an expected 300% over the next four years because of the laws Bush has passed for Big Energy. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1336960.stm

We get a National deficit that was proposed to be in the black when a Republican took office for the first time this century...and low and behold it's now BILLION's expected to be BILLIONS in the red in just four short years.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04027/266028.stm

Pollution standards, and clean water has been set back to the same levels it was in 1989 because Bush likes his "big energy" buddies. http://www.foe.org/camps/leg/ads/moneyp.pdf

And Bob.. What about his policy on immigration? We talked a little about this on the phone the other night..All he does is allow Big Business to make sweat shops here in the U.S. and keep wages too low for americans to be able to survive on.. Allowing Illlegals to come here and work is great for big business..it's great for income tax..but it plays hell on the American Blue Collar worker.. and it plays hell on every states welfare systems..

And we get to go to war with 2nd world countries who supposedly have "weapons of mass destruction" oh wait...they didn't have weapons of mass destruction after all.. Hmmm, then it comes to light that Bush had an agenda to remove Sadam from power even before Sep 11th... Interesting... and oh wait, what was I thinking..there was no personal agenda We just wanted to remove horrible tyranical dictators from power..hmmm..but wait a minute.. if that's the case.. Then how come North Korea is still allowed to operate? How about china? how about Cuba? Why don't we go and liberate Iran? ... Wait .. I know the answer.. because North Korea has nukes and can defend themselves... China would probably kick our ass.. or they would start a nucleor Holocost... Cuba and Iran don't realy have anything of interest to us...


And for the Morality stand point.. of those Republicans who vote republican because of their views on Abortion...Well, Abortion is still legal.. Partial birth abortion is still legal. They removed the Ten commandmants on a federal order from a state court house. and God has been removed from the pledge of allegiance..so tell me.. How is this man kept "morals" where they need to be?

I'm a republican who's voting democrat because I'm tired of Bush's big business..big energy.. and lies.. and what he's doing to this country financialy.

I could go on and on..but I'll stop with some of Georges finest quotes...

"Ariel Sharon of Israel is a Man of Peace". George W. Bush
"General Musharraf of Pakistan is a Democrat". George W. Bush
"The inhabitants of Greece are Greecians". George W. Bush
"The French don't have a word for `Entrepreneur`". George W. Bush
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country". George W.Bush
"If we dont succeed, we run the risk of failure". George W. Bush
"I have made good judgements in the past. I have made good judgements in the future". George W. Bush
"The future will be better tomorrow". George W. Bush
"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world". George W. Bush
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe, we are a part of Europe". George W. Bush
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls". George W. Bush
"For NASA, space is still a high priority". George W. Bush
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children". George W. Bush
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it". George W.Bush
"It's time that the human race enter the solar system". George W. Bush
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."...George W. Bush
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." ...George W. Bush to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93
"Public speaking is very easy." ...George W. Bush to reporters
"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican" ...George W. Bush
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." ...George W. Bush
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur." ...George W. Bush 9/22/97
"For NASA, space is still a high priority." ...George W. Bush, 9/5/93
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." ...George W. Bush, 9/18/95
"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that George Bush may or may not make."...George W. Bush
"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made."...Governor George W. Bush
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."...George W. Bush
"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system." ...George W. Bush
"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between mother and child." - Gov GWB
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." ...George W. Bush, Jr.
"Welcome to Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." ...Gov GW Bush, Jr., 8/11/94
"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." GW Bush, 9/15/95
"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy, but that could change." GWB 5/22/98
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 12/6/93
"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 11/30/96
"Natural gas is hemispheric. I like to call it hemispheric in nature because it is a product that we can find in our neighborhoods."Austin, Texas, Dec. 20, 2000
"It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is important. It's not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet."Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000
"Quotas are bad for America. It's not the way America is all about."
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future." ...Governor George W. Bush,Jr.
"The future will be better tomorrow." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/21/97
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." GW Bush, Jr. to Sam Donaldson
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
"Public speaking is very easy." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr. to reporters in 10/9
"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican" ...George W. Bush,
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." ...Gov G W. Bush
"When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in LA, my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame. ...George W. Bush, Jr.
"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it." ...Gov George W. Bush, Jr., 5/20/96
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/22/97
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/18/95
"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that George Bush may or may not make." ...Gov GW Bush, Jr.
"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made." ...Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." ...Gov George W. Bush, Jr.

 

[The-Juice-Man]

Socialists Fine Speeder $217,000

When socialism finally completes its ascent in the United States, here's what we have to look forward to: traffic fines of $217,000 for those who have the nerve to be successful.

That's how much P.C. Finland fined a millionaire under a system in which traffic fines are linked to income.

The fine against 27-year-old Jussi Salonojawas based on information cops got directly for the revenue office, the Helsinki newspaper Iltalehti reported reported Tuesday. It didn't say how fast he was going.

This is a great point you have brought up. Lord knows I hope it does not go this far. I have recently moved to the east coast and on the way driving my black m3 I recieved a ticket for 135mph. it is a bail of 350, that is not bad. If I had it based on income I would be fucked, that would be a mortgage on my rental house. ouch.

P.s. nice to see you bob and big louie. Still up for those late night chats about wendy's and politics?

 

[Bob Smith]

Im not even sure where to begin. Geez, I go away to have dinner for a couple hours and all hell breaks loose!

I disagree with a lot of Bush's spending policies, no doubt. We did go from being in the black to being in the red over the past 3-4 years. This is the culmination of many, many factors and not just specifically relating to GW. The downturn in the financial markets has played a nice roll and capital gains revenues arent supposed to return to 1999 levels till after 2010. That started way before GW took office.

I havent looked a great deal into the pollution control deals but have a general understanding of them. IMO, I really dont give a shit. I love the outdoors, the trees, clean water, and blue skies without pollution (at least in my area). We are trending towards a cleaner environment even if we do go back to whatever the laws were 10 or 12 years ago. Cleaner burning, more efficient cars are part of that. And dont give me that "well, what about SUVs" lameass retort. Corporate, passenger and cargo jets are all becoming much more efficient (and lower polluting) than they were even 10 years ago. This isnt because of some pollution control law passed by Congress, its becasue Pratt & Whitney, GE, Rolls Royce and other turbine manufacturers are now producing jets that run as much as 25% more efficient. More efficiency means lower costs to the airlines, cargo companies and private jet owners. Im sure that similar things are happening with military aircraft (which is, IIRC, the largest polluter in the US).

I dont even need to respond to any of the quotes Phreezer posted. I never claimed that GW was an eloquent speaker.

I disagree with Sens notion that tax cuts came at the wrong time. Tax cuts stimulate the economy, its pretty basic Econ 101. Greenspan has interest rates under control and plans on keeping them low. Oh, did you guys see his report on the economy? Its growing wonderfully! Job growth is always a laggard during a recovery/growth phase as companies find they can produce just as much goods or services with their reduced workforce. Greenspan said job growth will be quite high this year. In all realiuty though, we have an unemployment level of about 5.6%!! That is one of the absolute lowest numbers in the entire world and damn near full employment. Germany is pushing 10%, Canada, IIRC, is closer to 15%. Japan and the UK are about the same or a little bit lower than us. Whats Russia at? I think about 25% unemployment.

Bottom line for me...the govt is and has been way too big. With a reduction in entitlement programs (ie, move to workfare and not welfare) we would lower spending, put more people to work being productive and probably reduce the number of govt workers in those areas. End this new prescription drug plan, make tighter controls for supposed "disabled" people. I think the tax system should be totally revamped. Once all these superfluous spending programs are axed, we can lower our tax rates. I think we should either go to a flat tax or a very slight progressive tax, but with no deductions allowed at any tax level. This would eliminate tens or hundreds of thousands of IRS workers. Other govt programs could become more efficient if they were run to be efficient instead of run in a way to keep their budget increases every year. A move towards a true corporate structure focused on lower costs and more efficiency would save us taxpayers billions upon billions of dollars every year. All in all, I think govt spending could be cut between 30-40%. Just imagine what our tax rates would be like with that much lower of a budget? Maybe the highest tax bracket would be 15 or 18%.

 

[Bob Smith]

Hey dude, where ya been lately? Dont even get me started on Wendys or other junk food! Ive been craving pizza and Chinese for about the past 3 weeks.

 

[Phreezer]

I'm not asking for your proposed solution to the nations wows..ie..revamping the tax system.. I would just like to know why you want to vote for Bush.. And you can't say it's because of the democrats spending on welfare policies as a viable stance..because bush has allready spent more in the last year in Iraq alone, than all of the democratic wellfare plans combined over the last 3 years

btw, the polution has more to do with the amount of chemicals that Industries are now allowed to dump into rivers streams etc.. you know our Drinking water.. How about the future after the fact bush made these cuts..

a 49.9% cut in hydropower research*

a 53.7 % cut in solar energy research

a 48.2% cut in wind energy research
*
a 76% cut in federal grants to help localities deploy existing renewable technologies


So what makes an intelligent educated man think that Bush is doing a Good job in running the country?

 

[Bob Smith]

About the wind research. There is currently in the works the largest wind farm in the US (world?) somewhere north of where I am. Im not arguing that the cuts have been made, only that from my understanding, wind power is a relatively easy source of energy to understand and implement.

Now, the important question is....are these true cuts in spending, or are they simply reductions in proposed increase? People always say "so and so cut spending on education by 35%!!!! Thats an outrage!!" When in reality spending is still increasing, only the increase is reduced by that 35%. There is a huge difference here and its not just semantics.

 

[Phreezer]

do you just not want to answer my question??

Why are you standing behind bush over say Edwards?

 

[Bob Smith]

Because Edwards doesnt have a chance of winning. And I dont like Kerry at all. He flip-flops on his opinions as his focus groups change.

 

[Phreezer]

that's it? That's your only comment? I've asked three differant times to hear your reasoning for standing behind bush and all you can say is Kerry flip flops and edwards doesn't stand a chance?

I'm a little disappointed Bob. I didn't expect you to be someone to spin an answer away from a direct question..

 

[Bob Smith]

Besides not liking his opponents, I like his stance on taxes, abortion, faith-based organizations, and for having the balls to stick to his word. IMO, it really makes no difference if WMDs are found in Iraq, though I think that issue will be settled in the next 2-3 months.

First, Saddam violated, what was it, 14 UN resolutions. The UN is a bunch of pussies with no backbone. Bush decided that it was time to actually enforce one of those resolutions for a change. Plus, he acted on the intel that was available to all of the govt and friendly govts around the world. No intel is perfect, and maybe the intel on WMDs was way wrong, but thats not the point (at least not with this issue. It IS a major issue that needs to be remedied).

The CIA (and others) said that Iraq had WMDs and the labs to produce them. this is 100% fact. Now, whether it was 100% true a year ago, I guess we are in the process of helping out. But Saddam has poisoned tens of thousands of his own people with various chemical weapons and had documented stockpiles or VX, ricin, and a few other chem weapons. Where did they go? They didnt just disappear and if they were dismantled, why is there no documentation of that? That is a very important question.

Was that a little more direct?

 

[The-Juice-Man]

Bob

Hey dude, where ya been lately? Dont even get me started on Wendys or other junk food! Ive been craving pizza and Chinese for about the past 3 weeks.

hEY MY BROTHA.


I have had a ruff couple of weeks, my mother past away, she lived here in reno a short distance from me. Int hat time I recieved a promotion from work to maintain a up and coming warehouse for them. So I have moved further east and have been doing so the past few weeks. Man things have been crazy. The girl almost wife left me, because of the move and everything. It has been a really ruff two weeks. I hope all is well with my men. It is going to be hard to start over again in many other states away.

 

[bearze34]

..

a 49.9% cut in hydropower research*

a 53.7 % cut in solar energy research

a 48.2% cut in wind energy research
*
a 76% cut in federal grants to help localities deploy existing renewable technologies


So what makes an intelligent educated man think that Bush is doing a Good job in running the country?[/QUOTE]


First of all, I guess one would have to believe that these policies and expenditures have some benefit to make them a bad thing to cut. I wonder how many billions have been thrown down the toilet on solar, wind, etc. with little if any payout for the last 50 years or so. The only type of energy that is truly cost effective is nuclear power, which is used widely by the heroes of the left, France, Germany, Japan, etc. We always hear how we should be more like them until we discuss matters of substance.

I know that many believe that the war was bad, but the fact is we have had no more terrorist attacks since 9-11. You can believe that we wouldn't have had any even if a dove such as Howard Dean was in office if you wish but I do not.

Some deal with the oil companies causing gas to go up is more fodder for the laeft-wing newpapers. The fact is oil is more expensive because enviromental regulations make it more expensive to make gas and we require more gas all the time and there are less refineries every year due to the prohibitive cost of retrofitting them. If you want to thank someone you can thank the Sierra Club, NRDC and the other enviro-nazis.

To say that the pollution standards are worse in another fallacy. Just because you have a reg does not make it effective or necessary. Lets take the one that the left so loudly screamed about, the one that forced companies to upgrade to the most current technology when doing major maintenance or upgrades. For one to accept the notion that this is necessary you would have top accept the notion absolutely that newer or more current is necessarily better. This was a ridiculous law. All they have to do is change the permit requirements of whatever plant they feel is overpolluting and let them come up with a way to meet it. They can't really, especially in California, because they have cut the allowable emmisions so low that there isn't much more to cut. So, in order to look like they are doing something, they pass stupid laws like this one. Also, natural gas prices do not benefit oil companies at all. Just look at the costs to refine a barrel of crude oil and check out how much of that cost is energy and you will see what I mean. It is a matter of supply and demand. The other stuff is just hogwash.

Personally, I suppose I am socially liberal to some extent and financially conservative. I don't care if women have abortions, I don't care if gays get married and i don't care for guns. However, I don't want the govt. taking peoples guns away from them, I don't want to pay for other peoples abortions with my tax money and I don't think that welfare is a good thing unless it is for a short period of time and the person on it is either going to school or working as a condition of being on the dole. I know it has gooten much closer to that but it is not completely that way yet.

 

[Sensational]

Besides not liking his opponents, I like his stance on taxes, abortion, faith-based organizations, and for having the balls to stick to his word. IMO, it really makes no difference if WMDs are found in Iraq, though I think that issue will be settled in the next 2-3 months.

First, Saddam violated, what was it, 14 UN resolutions. The UN is a bunch of pussies with no backbone. Bush decided that it was time to actually enforce one of those resolutions for a change. Plus, he acted on the intel that was available to all of the govt and friendly govts around the world. No intel is perfect, and maybe the intel on WMDs was way wrong, but thats not the point (at least not with this issue. It IS a major issue that needs to be remedied).

The CIA (and others) said that Iraq had WMDs and the labs to produce them. this is 100% fact. Now, whether it was 100% true a year ago, I guess we are in the process of helping out. But Saddam has poisoned tens of thousands of his own people with various chemical weapons and had documented stockpiles or VX, ricin, and a few other chem weapons. Where did they go? They didnt just disappear and if they were dismantled, why is there no documentation of that? That is a very important question.

Was that a little more direct?

Regardless of stances, he has poisoned our relations with other countries and that is unacceptable in my opinion. Things that have transpired during his administration are unacceptable in my opinion(patriot act). Bush could lose the election if he doesn't get his credibility back. Which might happen, I also think it is awfully convenient that the investigation into intelligence won't be over until after the election~Sensational

 

[Bob Smith]

Regardless of stances, he has poisoned our relations with other countries and that is unacceptable in my opinion. Things that have transpired during his administration are unacceptable in my opinion(patriot act). Bush could lose the election if he doesn't get his credibility back. Which might happen, I also think it is awfully convenient that the investigation into intelligence won't be over until after the election~Sensational

The intelligence issue wasnt his fault. It was the same intel that Clinton got and Congress and all that. Why was it good intel when Clinton was in office, but not now?

I agree that the Patriot Act and the homeland security dept oversteps boundaries.

So relations have been spoiled with France, Russia and Germany. Why not look at the reasons for that. It was because all three of them had multi-billion dollar deals that would go sour if we went into Iraq. They were all in bed together in one big orgy. Well, too freakin bad if France loses money on the deal. Arabs never liked us anyways, so thats no change.

Bearz brought up an excellent point about nuclear power. IMO, it is the only way we should be moving towards. Unfortunately, there is a lot of people that think its dangerous, were all gonan die, blah blah blah. Im not a big fan of France, but they do get a very large percentage of their electricity from nuclear power. Why hasnt anyone bitched about all the glowing grapes or nuclear fallout over there? Its because its more of a myth that reality. Nucelar is cleaner burning, produces more energy, and we have enough fuel to last for God knows how long.

 

[Bob Smith]

Oh, and unless the economy takes a major crapper, I highly doubt that Bush will lose.

 

[bustafood]

Bush 2004

 

[consistent1]

That list of quotes has some classic material in it!

 

[KTCKSports]

Phreezer,

You need to read the Contract with America. It would help you understand some things.

K-

That list of quotes has some classic material in it!

 

[Manuel_Hung]

Phreezer,

You need to read the Contract with America. It would help you understand some things.

K-

I must say that I am an independent for the most part.....but can not see how an average american could endorse any policies of the current admin.

I love the moral stance the rebulicans try to use....like they are the only ones with moral convictions....gingrich left his terminally ill wife for his girl friend.....fuck him.....and he loves to bash gays and his daughter is a lezbo.

"He walked out in the spring of 1980.... By September, I went into the hospital for my third surgery. The two girls came to see me, and said, "Daddy is downstairs. Could he come up?" When he got there, he wanted to discuss the terms of the divorce while I was recovering from my surgery." - Jackie, his first wife. The hospital visit wasn't the end of it, either. Jackie had to take Newt to court to get him to contribute for bills, as utilities were about to be cut off.

We can also discuss the dems....but I will cut them some slack because they don't play the moral card every other minute.

I am an economist with the world bank in DC..... Bushes large deficits are going to seriously harm the economy.....market conditions dictate long term rates (not the fed)....large debt will drive up those rates hurting long term capital investment.

I went to the sub committee meeting on the hill when greenspan spoke to the senate fianace committee.....greenspan was a straight shooter like he always is.....he warned about the ballooning deficits and said there is nothing wrong with tax cuts, in fact he encoureges them....BUT THERE MUST BE A CORRESPONDING CUT IN EXPENDITURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even before the war....spending under his admin was at a all time high.....rebublicans love pork as much or more than the dems.....its all about votes guys! The lines are blurred now.....between both parties!

 

[thick]

Didn't know you were such an attack dog Phreezer. I cant wait to read the rest of this thread. Those were some pretty funny quotes.

that's it? That's your only comment? I've asked three differant times to hear your reasoning for standing behind bush and all you can say is Kerry flip flops and edwards doesn't stand a chance?

I'm a little disappointed Bob. I didn't expect you to be someone to spin an answer away from a direct question..