How World War III became possible

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How World War III became possible
A nuclear conflict with Russia is likelier than you think
by Max Fisher on June 29, 2015


It was in August 2014 that the real danger began, and that we heard the first warnings of war. That month, unmarked Russian troops covertly invaded eastern Ukraine, where the separatist conflict had grown out of its control. The Russian air force began harassing the neighboring Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, which are members of NATO. The US pledged that it would uphold its commitment to defend those countries as if they were American soil, and later staged military exercises a few hundred yards from Russia's border.

Both sides came to believe that the other had more drastic intentions. Moscow is convinced the West is bent on isolating, subjugating, or outright destroying Russia. One in three Russians now believe the US may invade. Western nations worry, with reason, that Russia could use the threat of war, or provoke an actual conflict, to fracture NATO and its commitment to defend Eastern Europe. This would break the status quo order that has peacefully unified Europe under Western leadership, and kept out Russian influence, for 25 years.

Europe today looks disturbingly similar to the Europe of just over 100 years ago, on the eve of World War I. It is a tangle of military commitments and defense pledges, some of them unclear and thus easier to trigger. Its leaders have given vague signals for what would and would not lead to war. Its political tensions have become military buildups. Its nations are teetering on an unstable balance of power, barely held together by a Cold War–era alliance that no longer quite applies.

If you take a walk around Washington or a Western European capital today, there is no feeling of looming catastrophe. The threats are too complex, with many moving pieces and overlapping layers of risk adding up to a larger danger that is less obvious. People can be forgiven for not seeing the cloud hanging over them, for feeling that all is well — even as in Eastern Europe they are digging in for war. But this complacency is itself part of the problem, making the threat more difficult to foresee, to manage, or, potentially, to avert.

"There’s a low nuclear threshold now that didn’t exist during the Cold War"
There is a growing chorus of political analysts, arms control experts, and government officials who are sounding the alarm, trying to call the world's attention to its drift toward disaster. The prospect of a major war, even a nuclear war, in Europe has become thinkable, they warn, even plausible.

What they describe is a threat that combines many of the hair-trigger dangers and world-ending stakes of the Cold War with the volatility and false calm that preceded World War I — a comparison I heard with disturbing frequency.

They described a number of ways that an unwanted but nonetheless major war, like that of 1914, could break out in the Eastern European borderlands. The stakes, they say, could not be higher: the post–World War II peace in Europe, the lives of thousands or millions of Eastern Europeans, or even, in a worst-case scenario that is remote but real, the nuclear devastation of the planet.

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8845913/russia-war
 
I'm more concerned with Iran and Korea. The Russians are playing cray cray right now.

Unless Putin invades the Baltic states, which are Nato, we will not incinerate the planet.

Korea will most likely be satisfied extorting the west. Iran will solidify it hold over the middle east.
 
Putin may pick off the Ukraine and Moldova. And we let him. He will not pick a fight with Nato.
 
We will not go to war with Russia over non-Nato countries. Putin will only go so far. If he invades the Ukraine, the west will completely cut off all ties with Russia. No banking. No selling oil or natural gas. The Russian economy would be shattered beyond repair in a month. Something to think about.
 
I should clarify that I meant the WHOLE SUBJECT not just that statement (not that anybody cares). Get in your car at the border in the Ukraine and you can be in Moscow in about 12 or 14 hours. It's only about 300 miles:)
 
Ongoing posturing by both sides. Exercises such as these allow the countries to examine strengths/weaknesses/resolve of its counterpart. As well a, to gain propaganda to promote the war machine funding.
I couldn't help but think of Orson Well's radio presentation of the War of the Worlds when reading the ops post. Informative and entertaining. Good one, @Censorboardsuck.

And no, I'm not that old. I wasn't around for the 1938 radio presentation.
 
"The US pledged that it would uphold its commitment todefend those countries as if they were American soil, and later staged military exercises a few hundred yards from Russia's border."

Bite my tongue on this subject:)

I should clarify that I meant the WHOLE SUBJECT not just that statement (not that anybody cares). Get in your car at the border in the Ukraine and you can be in Moscow in about 12 or 14 hours. It's only about 300 miles:)


That's it? I expected a more impassioned defense of Komrad Putin's treachery from you, Kawilt. That was a very lackluster response by any standard, and let's face it, Global Research would cease to exist if not for Kremlin's charity.

I noticed you did go straight for the quote about American oppugnancy while completely ignoring the preceding sentence apropos that of the Russians: "The Russian air force began harassing the neighboring Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, which are members of NATO."

You're nothing if not consistent, Kawilt.

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with the Ukrainian/Russian geography lesson. The article was discussing the Baltics.
 
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Yeah Russia is being strangled with sanctions and it ends up being the Russian people who feel it. Makes it very easy to use media propaganda in Russia to influence its people. Tighten the leash around a countries neck too tight and they might bite back. Not sure if Putin is just showing off or if he has a screw loose. Probably both.
 
That's it? I expected a more impassioned defense of Komrad Putin's treachery from you, Kawilt. That was a very lackluster response by any standard, and let's face it, Global Research would cease to exist if not for Kremlin's charity.

I noticed you did go straight for the quote about American oppugnancy while completely ignoring the preceding sentence apropos that of the Russians: "The Russian air force began harassing the neighboring Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, which are members of NATO."

You're nothing if not consistent, Kawilt.

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with the Ukrainian/Russian geography lesson. The article was discussing the Baltics.

I could care less about Putin or Russia, and why would you expect me to defend him or Russia? Just suggesting another reason that could make people a little nervous. The Baltic states are about the same driving time from Moscow as from the Ukraine, where I hear there having some little problems also.. By the way, I liked your post by Max Fisher. The whole situation can be very confusing. It's a bit difficult to tell who's where and doing what.
 
I could care less about Putin or Russia, and why would you expect me to defend him or Russia? Just suggesting another reason that could make people a little nervous. The Baltic states are about the same driving time from Moscow as from the Ukraine, where I hear there having some little problems also.. By the way, I liked your post by Max Fisher. The whole situation can be very confusing. It's a bit difficult to tell who's where and doing what.

I'm just yanking your chain, Kawilt. It's been too quiet around here lately. :eek:
 
What I'm worried about is this jade helm and them seein how to inact martial law. Then we will have a revolution on our hands and that will leave the door wide open for N Korea and Russia to easily attack us. Not to mention Isis planting ied's anywhere. Cause the military will be split some fighting with us the civilian population and the other half with obama. So we will have a big mess on our hands. The best thing for the govt to do is leave us alone and our guns. That is one major reason the U.S. Has never been invaded. That is why the japs didn't invade in wwII cause the emperor said there will be a gun behind every blade of grass.
 



SOVIETS CLOSE TO USING A-BOMB IN 1962 CRISIS, FORUM IS TOLD
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cold-war/sovietsbomb.htm

It was the most dangerous moment of the Cold War. At about 5 p.m. on Oct. 27, 1962, a Soviet submarine armed with a nuclear warhead found itself trapped and being bombarded by a US warship patrolling off Cuba

One of the Soviet captains gave the order to prepare to fire. But a cooler-headed officer persuaded him to wait for instructions from Moscow before unleashing a nuclear attack.

''We thought - that's it - the end,'' Vadim Orlov, a Soviet intelligence officer, was quoted as saying in recently declassified documents from the Cuban missile crisis.

The details on just how close the United States and the Soviet Union came to nuclear war emerged during a three-day conference sponsored by the private National Security Archive, Brown University, and the Cuban government marking the 40th anniversary of the crisis. Although the discovery that Soviet submarines were armed with nuclear weapons was revealed about a year ago, this was the first time key players in the 13-day crisis had sat down to analyze the implications of the Oct. 27 incident.

Participants in the meeting, which ends today with a tour of the missile site, include President Fidel Castro of Cuba and other top Cuban officials, former Kennedy administration officials, and former Soviet military officers, as well as scholars from all three countries.

Until recently, scholars believed that the United States had come within days of nuclear war. Kennedy sent a letter to the Soviet premier, Nikita Khrushchev, promising not to invade Cuba if the Soviets removed missiles from Cuba. Kennedy believed that if Khrushchev refused he had no choice but to order a full-scale attack on Cuba.

Only this weekend did many missile-crisis experts learn how much closer the world had come to nuclear war - and how Kennedy himself may not have been the most crucial figure in averting it.

''The lesson from this is that a guy called Vasili Arkhipov saved the world,'' said Thomas Blanton, director of the National Security Archive. He was referring to the Soviet captain who prevailed on his fellow officers not to fire the nuclear torpedo.

US destroyers under orders to enforce a naval quarantine off Cuba did not know that the submarines the Soviets had sent to protect their ships were carrying nuclear weapons. So the Americans began firing depth charges to force the submarines to the surface, a move the Soviets interpreted as the start of World War III.

''We're going to blast them now! We will die, but we will sink them all. We will not disgrace our navy,'' the Soviet intelligence report quotes the first Soviet captain as saying before his co-officer calmed him down.

Blanton said he became convinced of what went on in the submarine after he cross-referenced that version with newly released deck logs from the US destroyers. He confirmed Arkhipov's role after the former officer did not deny the version described in the intelligence report, which was declassified shortly before his death three years ago.

Conference participants pored over thousands of documents declassified since 1992, many of which shed new light on sensitive issues such as US efforts to remove Castro. Cuban officials used the documents in arguing that they had legitimate reasons to believe Washington intended to invade Cuba, and that Castro was justified in seeking Soviet protection.

''It's clear from all the documents that if subversive activity didn't work, the option was an armed invasion,'' said Esteban Morales, head of Cuba's Center for the Study of the United States.

Among key documents was a declassified Defense Department memo from 1961 describing a three-step plan for the ''US endeavor to cause the overthrow of the Castro government.'' The strategy was to stage intensive military exercises near Cuba to provoke a hostile reaction from Castro, which would give Washington the justification it needed to ''destroy Castro with speed, force and determination.''

Robert McNamara, Kennedy's defense secretary and a key conference participant, conceded Friday night that Cuba was justified in fearing an attack. ''If I were in Cuban or Soviet shoes, I would have thought so, too,'' he said. ''We as a superpower did not look through to the ends of our actions. That was a real weakness.''

Participants emphasized that any new knowledge should be used to help avoid future conflict, in particular a potential US war with Iraq. ''God willing, someone will be sitting down in Baghdad and talking about this moment in 40 years'' if a war is averted, said Christopher Kennedy Lawford, President Kennedy's nephew. Lawford, who played a US pilot in a film about the crisis, ''13 Days,'' was among several members of the film's team attending the conference.

The parallel between Kennedy's handling of the crisis and President Bush's deliberations over Iraq was a recurrent theme at the meeting, with many participants accusing Bush of ignoring history.

''There are lessons to be learned,'' said Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr., a former Kennedy aide and a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian. ''This was not only the most dangerous moment of the Cold War. It was the most dangerous moment in human history.''

Asked whether he thought the conference could play a role in influencing Bush against invading Iraq, Schlesinger said no.

''Kennedy chose quarantine as an alternative to military action,'' he said. ''Bush is committed to military action.''

This story ran on page A20 of the Boston Globe on 10/13/2002. © Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company.
 
What I'm worried about is this jade helm and them seein how to inact martial law. Then we will have a revolution on our hands and that will leave the door wide open for N Korea and Russia to easily attack us. Not to mention Isis planting ied's anywhere. Cause the military will be split some fighting with us the civilian population and the other half with obama. So we will have a big mess on our hands. The best thing for the govt to do is leave us alone and our guns. That is one major reason the U.S. Has never been invaded. That is why the japs didn't invade in wwII cause the emperor said there will be a gun behind every blade of grass.
I see the second amendment as protection against our government.

Japan had no business screwing with the US. That war was over before it started. They were massacred in battle.

Just in one campaign attacking several islands and bypassing strong fortifications, the Japanese lost over 130, 000 to 12, 000 American losses. That's how most of the war in the pacific went.
 
I see the second amendment as protection against our government.

Japan had no business screwing with the US. That war was over before it started. They were massacred in battle.

Just in one campaign attacking several islands and bypassing strong fortifications, the Japanese lost over 130, 000 to 12, 000 American losses. That's how most of the war in the pacific went.
I remember a quote of a Japanese general if I'm not mistaken. when asked why they wouldn't invade the United states he replied by saying "you cannot invade mainland United states, there is a rifle behind every blade of grass". Our second amendment is what makes us such a powerful nation.
 
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