Help me out with a client: Sudden weight gain in lower leg.

MrTexas2

Member
So, I have a guy. He is extremely serious about his diet and training. He goes to a TRT clinic (to run his labs) but I "supplement" his program. He was on their test, but now gets it much more cheaply. He is also on GH and his wife is on Zepbound. Lets just say he gets everything via this forum for about 10% what it would cost if he got it from the pharmacy/clinic. He trusts me and is excellent to work with. I want to help him as much as possible.

He is 53 and running 250 test and 150 deca/week with 3iu's of GH (from sources like Opti/Lobster/Sigma....all with excellent Janoshick results) 5 days a wek. His wife has been running Sigma sourced Zepbound, 5mg and has lost 23 lbs. He has been running everything for more than 12 weeks, except at week 8 swapped out the deca for Primobolin, 200 mgs/week.

He got labs. Most everything good, within range. His total test came back at 1350 (top of range 1100, so not a big deal) however his IGF-1 was just slightly above mid range. My advice would be to go 4 iu's maybe a touch more since he is not a good responder to GH (3 iu's 5 days a week puts me over the top of my range). His body/physique has improved dramatically in those 12 weeks.

However, he has suddenly developed pretty severe water retention in his lower leg. It presents like peripheral edema. I asked if he were diabetic and he said no. Nonetheless I am suggesting he get A01c labs.

It might also be a Kidney issue.

Since his IGF-1 was moderate I don't think the GH is causing the water retention....plus he was on it for 12 weeks before the water retention problem.

Since I was baffled, I told him to see a general practitioner (MD) who could diagnose the problem (and then maybe a specialist). However I also told him that most doctors are completely ignorant when it comes to HRT, so to just make sure his numbers stayed w/ in range. Then again maybe he should go off the GH and Primo and just do minimal TRT?

Any idea as to what might be going on is greatly appreciated. As mentioned, he might need to get some kidney labs.
 
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For him it evidently is a big deal.
Thanks. He was at 200 mg test/week for quite a while, a solid year.

He has been at 250 mgs/ week for at least 3 months. He injects test C 3 days a week.

So, pull him back to 200/week. That should bring him below 1100. I will take a look at the links you posted. I am still thinking the Kidneys are involved....I see that the article you posted was kidney related, I will give it a read.
 
Good excerpt:
"This is the first controlled study demonstrating that testosterone increases extracellular water ECW. Previous data concerning the effects of testosterone on plasma volume (19, 20) and urinary sodium excretion (18, 21) are limited and conflicting. The underlying mechanism is unknown, but several possibilities exist. Testosterone could act directly on the kidney, because androgen receptors are expressed in renal tubules (31). There is evidence that androgens stimulate the expression of the angiotensinogen gene in the kidney (32, 33). Therefore, androgens could activate the local renal RAAS to stimulate sodium and water retention through an autocrine or paracrine mechanism (34). The epithelial sodium channel plays an important role in the sodium balance, as demonstrated by genetic abnormalities in its activity, such as in Liddle's syndrome (35). It has recently been reported that androgens increase mRNA expression of the α-subunit of the epithelial sodium channel in a human renal cell line (36), providing a potential mechanism of sodium and water retention by testosterone.

Plasma aldosterone Aldo levels fell significantly during testosterone treatment
, whereas a modest fall, which failed to reach significance, occurred during GH treatment. During combined treatments, a significant fall in Aldo was also observed. The uniform trend toward a fall in Aldo levels observed with single and combined treatments suggests an adaptive response to ECW expansion. The observation that the fall in Aldo was greater in the presence of testosterone suggests that additional androgen-mediated mechanisms are probably involved. Androgen receptors have been identified in human adrenocortical cells and appear to exert an inhibitory influence. In vitro studies have demonstrated that testosterone reduced the proliferation of human adrenal adenoma and adrenocortical cancer cell lines (38). It is possible that testosterone directly suppresses Aldo biosynthesis or secretion, but this remains to be demonstrated.
More on aldosterone

The effects of testosterone on the volume and distribution of ECW could theoretically occur secondary to aromatization to estrogen in peripheral tissues. Estrogen may cause fluid retention through reduction of the plasma antidiuretic hormone (arginine vasopressin)-plasma osmolality set point (39, 40) or stimulating the synthesis of hepatic angiotensinogen (41), enhancing the overall activity of RAAS and leading to sodium retention. However, this postulate is not supported by the observation that urinary sodium excretion is increased during oral contraceptive use (42) or that the plasma renin concentration is reduced in women receiving estrogen treatment (43). Moreover, estrogen reduces the plasma renin concentration, the activity of angiotensin-converting enzyme, and the Aldo response to angiotensin II (44, 45). These actions of estrogen putatively generated from aromatization of androgens could explain the slight reduction in plasma Aldo levels in response to testosterone in our study." Source

I never had testosterone affect kidneys....maybe trenbolone.
 
So, I have a guy. He is extremely serious about his diet and training. He goes to a TRT clinic (to run his labs) but I "supplement" his program. He was on their test, but now gets it much more cheaply. He is also on GH and his wife is on Zepbound. Lets just say he gets everything via this forum for about 10% what it would cost if he got it from the pharmacy/clinic. He trusts me and is excellent to work with. I want to help him as much as possible.

He is 53 and running 250 test and 150 deca/week with 3iu's of GH (from sources like Opti/Lobster/Sigma....all with excellent Janoshick results) 5 days a wek. His wife has been running Sigma sourced Zepbound, 5mg and has lost 23 lbs. He has been running everything for more than 12 weeks, except at week 8 swapped out the deca for Primobolin, 200 mgs/week.

He got labs. Most everything good, within range. His total test came back at 1350 (top of range 1100, so not a big deal) however his IGF-1 was just slightly above mid range. My advice would be to go 4 iu's maybe a touch more since he is not a good responder to GH (3 iu's 5 days a week puts me over the top of my range). His body/physique has improved dramatically in those 12 weeks.

However, he has suddenly developed pretty severe water retention in his lower leg. It presents like peripheral edema. I asked if he were diabetic and he said no. Nonetheless I am suggesting he get A01c labs.

It might also be a Kidney issue.

Since his IGF-1 was moderate I don't think the GH is causing the water retention....plus he was on it for 12 weeks before the water retention problem.

Since I was baffled, I told him to see a general practitioner (MD) who could diagnose the problem (and then maybe a specialist). However I also told him that most doctors are completely ignorant when it comes to HRT, so to just make sure his numbers stayed w/ in range. Then again maybe he should go off the GH and Primo and just do minimal TRT?

Any idea as to what might be going on is greatly appreciated. As mentioned, he might need to get some kidney labs.
Diabetes wouldn't be the first thing that comes to my mind.

He would possibly benefit from:
Angiotensin receptor blockers,
Back off of the hgh
He should just do TRT. What are his goals?

How much does he weigh? Stats?


Drop down to 2iu of hgh
 
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Wow...crazy sides for only 200/mg/week.
I was extremely fit when I started TRT 120 mg/week. Very low BF. Lots of cardio. Still had lower leg edema for first few months. Not everyone cut out for high serum T levels out of the gate. When something fucks up, the body tells you.

You are genetic elite. Be careful with clients.
 
Sorry if you dont have account there. Behind email firewall.

 
 
I was extremely fit when I started TRT 120 mg/week. Very low BF. Lots of cardio. Still had lower leg edema for first few months. Not everyone cut out for high serum T levels out of the gate. When something fucks up, the body tells you.

You are genetic elite. Be careful with clients.
That is true, thank you for the wise advice. I am a cockroach. Many decades ago, before I started bodybuilding I could drink a whole bottle (quart) of whiskey and be OK the next day.

I have very mediocre genetics for bodybuilding, but was genetically gifted in the drug department. For my last show (at age 56) 800 test/600tren/600mast/week....100 mgs of Winstrol a day.

Having said that, my goal is to help people. I could not live with myself if I harmed someone.

Crazy thing is, this guy looks REALLY good. Walking around at under 10% b fat, has an upper body that could almost compete.
 
DOH....I just checked...this guy has been on 250 test and 3 iu GH for nearly 5 months, not 3. No wonder he looks so good, LOL.

Edema has been 4 days. But still to be safe I am going to drop him down to 200 mgs. What about the Primo? 180 mgs/week. I've never in 30 years seen any problems with real Primo.
 
I would pause the GH for 3 or 4 days then start back at 2iu and see if that helps the legs. Titrate back up slowly from there.
 
I would pause the GH for 3 or 4 days then start back at 2iu and see if that helps the legs. Titrate back up slowly from there.

His IGF-1 is not that high from 3 iu's 5 days a week....but yes maybe a bit of a cut back. I am having him cut his test back to 200...if no results then I will look at cutting the GH.

At 5 months he has run the GH long enough to see results so a short cut back won't hurt the way he looks at all.
 
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