HCG can PERMANANTLY desensitize the ledyig cells?

[Hcg69]

it is said that HCG can PERMANANTLY desensitize the ledyig cells in your testes, resulting in PRIMARY Hypogonadism,which is permanent and the only option would be TRT,which is not actualy an option when you want to have a child in the future.what do you think about this statement?

i feel that i have desenzitised my body to Hcg with around 4 doses of 5000ui,5 days apart each...i have stop any cycle for about 1 year and a half but still i had testicular athrophy and zero libido & low sperm count.but still 6 months ago my girlfriend got pregnant(accidentaly).so it is a proof that i am still fertile.i dont want to go on HRT,as i want to be fertile in the future.i will try to use Hcg 500ui/day or EOD with 20mg Nolva/day till something happenes(i hope).if not,i will quit and still i will not use TRT.i will use Proviron/Nolva,which still give me a chance to be fertile compared to TRT...

the problem now is that my body will not react to Hcg anymore...

 

[Michael Scally MD]

it is said that HCG can PERMANANTLY desensitize the ledyig cells in your testes, resulting in PRIMARY Hypogonadism,which is permanent and the only option would be TRT,which is not actualy an option when you want to have a child in the future.what do you think about this statement?

i feel that i have desenzitised my body to Hcg with around 4 doses of 5000ui,5 days apart each...i have stop any cycle for about 1 year and a half but still i had testicular athrophy and zero libido & low sperm count.but still 6 months ago my girlfriend got pregnant(accidentaly).so it is a proof that i am still fertile.i dont want to go on HRT,as i want to be fertile in the future.i will try to use Hcg 500ui/day or EOD with 20mg Nolva/day till something happenes(i hope).if not,i will quit and still i will not use TRT.i will use Proviron/Nolva,which still give me a chance to be fertile compared to TRT...

the problem now is that my body will not react to Hcg anymore...

This would be the FIRST (and ONLY) case ever reported in ALL of published literature. IT DOES NOT OCCUR!!!

 

[Hcg69]

thanks man for the prompt answer!like i have said-now i have zero libido,no morning erections,very low sperm count and my testicles are down but small.what should i do?i want to try 500ui ED + 20mg Tamo till something will happen(i hope).if my body would not react tp Hcg i dont know what to do more..

i hope i will have time to made T,Fsh and Lh levels...

 

[Michael Scally MD]

thanks man for the prompt answer!like i have said-now i have zero libido,no morning erections,very low sperm count and my testicles are down but small.what should i do?i want to try 500ui ED + 20mg Tamo till something will happen(i hope).if my body would not react tp Hcg i dont know what to do more..

i hope i will have time to made T,Fsh and Lh levels...

Laboratory studies! Otherwise, you are going at it blindly and will not solve anything.

 

[amar7]

This would be the FIRST (and ONLY) case ever reported in ALL of published literature. IT DOES NOT OCCUR!!!

thanks for that dr scally, from what i've read in the literature, I also expected this to be right, even though this leydig cell thing is wide myth spread among bodybuilders I guess.

the only thing that can cause a problem i think, is the rise in ostroegen, so the intake of aromasin should be necessary right?

 

[Kwirion]

it is said that HCG can PERMANANTLY desensitize the ledyig cells in your testes, resulting in PRIMARY Hypogonadism,which is permanent and the only option would be TRT,which is not actualy an option when you want to have a child in the future.what do you think about this statement?

i feel that i have desenzitised my body to Hcg with around 4 doses of 5000ui,5 days apart each...i have stop any cycle for about 1 year and a half but still i had testicular athrophy and zero libido & low sperm count.but still 6 months ago my girlfriend got pregnant(accidentaly).so it is a proof that i am still fertile.i dont want to go on HRT,as i want to be fertile in the future.i will try to use Hcg 500ui/day or EOD with 20mg Nolva/day till something happenes(i hope).if not,i will quit and still i will not use TRT.i will use Proviron/Nolva,which still give me a chance to be fertile compared to TRT...

the problem now is that my body will not react to Hcg anymore...

Don't panic! My dosage was 5000 UI of HCG e4d for one year (2008). In 2010 Clomid / Nolva restated my HPTA in perfect way...

More about SERM etc.: Steroids with Michael Scally, M.D. #1 - Clomid, Nolvadex, hCG, PCT and HPTA Normalization

 

[Hcg69]

Laboratory studies! Otherwise, you are going at it blindly and will not solve anything.

yes,i agree of course.but there is no possibility that my body have make permanent desenzation to Hcg?and it will not ever respond to this drug?

there are 2 camps-1 that thinks even you have use too much,you must take some time to regain some sensivity back and then try another treatment with Hcg and another that thinks if you have use too much there is no turning back,yours body will npt react anymore to any dosage of Hcg,yours testicle will not grow anymore and you will end up with primary hypogonadism...i hope it is not this way!

 

[Hcg69]

Don't panic! My dosage was 5000 UI of HCG e4d for one year (2008). In 2010 Clomid / Nolva restated my HPTA in perfect way...

More about SERM etc.: Steroids with Michael Scally, M.D. #1 - Clomid, Nolvadex, hCG, PCT and HPTA Normalization

why you have take such big doses for 1 year?and clomid after how much time have restated yours HPTA?thanks!

 

[cvictorg]

This would be the FIRST (and ONLY) case ever reported in ALL of published literature. IT DOES NOT OCCUR!!!

Indirect evidence of chronic Leydig cell desensitization in Klinefelter's syndrome
Indirect evidence of chronic Leydig cell desensitization in Klinefelter's syndrome -- Smals et al. 96 (4): 552 -- Acta Endocrinologica

Desensitization of mouse Leydig cells in vivo: evidence for the depletion of cellular cholesterol.
http://www.biolreprod.org/content/33/2/335.short

Adverse effects associated with persistent stimulation of Leydig cells with hCG in vitro.
Adverse effects associated with persistent stimula... [Mol Reprod Dev. 2009] - PubMed result

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Indirect evidence of chronic Leydig cell desensitization in Klinefelter's syndrome
Indirect evidence of chronic Leydig cell desensitization in Klinefelter's syndrome -- Smals et al. 96 (4): 552 -- Acta Endocrinologica

Desensitization of mouse Leydig cells in vivo: evidence for the depletion of cellular cholesterol.
http://www.biolreprod.org/content/33/2/335.short

Adverse effects associated with persistent stimulation of Leydig cells with hCG in vitro.
Adverse effects associated with persistent stimula... [Mol Reprod Dev. 2009] - PubMed result

What is your point? There has NEVER been a clinical case of hCG induced desensitization reported. In your cites, the Klinefelter's case*** (1981) has not been repeated and does not demonstrate desensitization (i.e., indirect as well as showing a similar response for one metabolite to controls); mouse Leydig cells (1985) - LMAO; and the last cite points out "in vitro" effect, far from a clinical effect. But, a good try. Keep looking - I have looked for years without success. I welcome the help!

***Note: Klinefelter's is far from what is spoken about! And even here the evidence does not exist. Also, this might confuse those that buy into this crap and are not as familiar as you are for this myth.

 

[LW64]

My own common sense (I hope!) view of it is if you're taking it for TRT, you only want just enough to get your free/bioavail T into the normal range AND keep your E2 from going wild. That makes 1500 IUs week a good starting point. Too much more and you'll go supra and very likely get too much E2, while if you go too low you wont get enough T production.

 

[Hcg69]

My own common sense (I hope!) view of it is if you're taking it for TRT, you only want just enough to get your free/bioavail T into the normal range AND keep your E2 from going wild. That makes 1500 IUs week a good starting point. Too much more and you'll go supra and very likely get too much E2, while if you go too low you wont get enough T production.

i am not interested on TRT!!i am interested only to make my body produce again testosterone,for in the future to be fertily and have a child.

 

[BBC3]

I don't even know what you guys are going on about?!? I solved this one a year ago... Hcg is not an LH mimic, but more of an LH agonist and with a curving return. It requires natural LH as a "key to operation", and once natty LH is below 1.0 in serum count, it no longer produces hardly any effect. There, tell em all you heard it here first at Captain Anecdotal's Place. Seriously, just my sincere thoughts. I have no doubt that the physical reaction derived from HCG administration reduces with experience and honestly that hypothesis odes not even answer that question. But really, who ever even said HCG is an effective way to stimulate testicular production of TT anyway? IF it were, do you not think it would be the primary form of TRT and not supplementation with testosterone? In my experience, it is worthless other than making one horney as a BAT for a day. On the other hand, it may very well be involved in the dropping or not dropping of an egg in women;s medically assisted insemenations. That is really why THAT is all that it is used for medically speaking. I am in agreement... IMHO.....

 

[LW64]

I was on HCG only for several months and it consistently raised my total T into the 600s and higher. I was in the 300s/400s and falling when I started using it. I couldnt get my E2 under control, so I stopped using it. I dont believe I've exhausted every possible protocol with it so I may try it again. I didnt see any loss of effectiveness with it over time. Then again, 7 months isnt that long so who knows? It didnt make me horny on a consistent basis but there was a four week interval when it made the PDE5s work like gangbusters and THAT did make me horny.

 

[Hcg69]

i had testicular athrophy for long tim after cycles..i know last time(1 year or more) i have made 4 shots with 5000ui each,5 days apart.and my body havent give any sign should i do it longer?i see in the prospect that doctors prescribe it for at least 4months.

i have start it monday with a 1250ui dose,and last night(thursday,3rd day) i have made 1 shot 500ui.no result till now!i am thinking of making 500ui/day but i dont know for how long?if i dont see any sign should i still continue?

unfortunely i havent done any blood test before the treatment.now when is the time to make blood test?after how much time after Hcg administration i can do it?or how?

thanks!

 

[BBC3]

I have not been able to find a whole lot of data, however I do suspect that HCG EVEN IN UNCONSTITUED form is extremely delicate, and more importantly temperature sensative. I seriously wonder if it survives the general postal routes it usually travels, or any potential radiation from inspection sources!?!? So consider that. Anyone finding any documentation on that please advise. I could be wrong so just a hunch.....

i had testicular athrophy for long tim after cycles..i know last time(1 year or more) i have made 4 shots with 5000ui each,5 days apart.and my body havent give any sign should i do it longer?i see in the prospect that doctors prescribe it for at least 4months.

i have start it monday with a 1250ui dose,and last night(thursday,3rd day) i have made 1 shot 500ui.no result till now!i am thinking of making 500ui/day but i dont know for how long?if i dont see any sign should i still continue?

unfortunely i havent done any blood test before the treatment.now when is the time to make blood test?after how much time after Hcg administration i can do it?or how?

thanks!

 

[Hcg69]

i was thinking about that also,but it is not the case now.an interesting thing is that since i have made my 1st shot a feel a little pain around my niples.which is the sign i think that the dose can be too large(1250ui) and it cause aromatization.but in the same time i take Nolvadex 20 mg and i have lower the dose to 500ui/day.

i have read in the prospect that if it is not mix,Hcg can be held,at the room temperature(maximum +25 Celsius degrees).after it is mix you must keep it in the refrigirator.

and another thing-if i have diluted with its normal vial,which is steril water and 0.09% salt,how long i can use it?i am thinking of using 1 vial of 5000ui in 10 days.it will last held in the refrigerator?i have read somewhere that only with bact.water but i cant get that..

 

[Hcg69]

„an increase in circulating levels of LH have been shown to induce down-regulation of LH-receptors in both rodent studies (14), as well as in human studies (15); since HCG mimics LH, you can expect it to do the same. This LH downregulation can cause an increase in steroidogenic cholesterol (the cholesterol earmarked by your body for conversion into testosterone). (16). Thus, after the initial HCG induced surge in testosterone is over, if you have used enough to downregulate your LH-receptors and increase estrogen too much, then more steroidogenic cholesterol is available. This is telling me that less is being converted to testosterone. In fact, rodent models suggest that if you take a dose large enough to cause a sharp increase of plasma testosterone, you will actually desensitize your Leydig cells to your next shot, and will possibly not experience any rise in testosterone from the second dose at all, or may only experience a very slight one at best (17.). Since this is due to LH-Receptor downregulation, and that occurs in human models too, it is pretty fair to assume that if your first dose of HCG is too large, your second won’t be very effective.”

 

[ZZG19]

„an increase in circulating levels of LH have been shown to induce down-regulation of LH-receptors in both rodent studies (14), as well as in human studies (15); since HCG mimics LH, you can expect it to do the same. This LH downregulation can cause an increase in steroidogenic cholesterol (the cholesterol earmarked by your body for conversion into testosterone). (16). Thus, after the initial HCG induced surge in testosterone is over, if you have used enough to downregulate your LH-receptors and increase estrogen too much, then more steroidogenic cholesterol is available. This is telling me that less is being converted to testosterone. In fact, rodent models suggest that if you take a dose large enough to cause a sharp increase of plasma testosterone, you will actually desensitize your Leydig cells to your next shot, and will possibly not experience any rise in testosterone from the second dose at all, or may only experience a very slight one at best (17.). Since this is due to LH-Receptor downregulation, and that occurs in human models too, it is pretty fair to assume that if your first dose of HCG is too large, your second won’t be very effective.”

Your body is pretty damn good at maintaining homeostasis (even if it decides that normal level is below what it should be). Everyone always talks about downregulation, but the opposite, upregulation, also occurs after a period of time in the prescence of very little LH. When they give people with prostate cancer GHRH agonists it downregulates the shit out of everything but after discontinuation receptors eventually upregulate and hormone levels return to normal.

 

[Hcg69]

Your body is pretty damn good at maintaining homeostasis (even if it decides that normal level is below what it should be). Everyone always talks about downregulation, but the opposite, upregulation, also occurs after a period of time in the prescence of very little LH. When they give people with prostate cancer GHRH agonists it downregulates the shit out of everything but after discontinuation receptors eventually upregulate and hormone levels return to normal.

so you are saying of you have make downregulation to yours Lh,if you give some time free od Hcg yours receptor will upregulate.if so,it is the same time like clen,efedrine,steroids etc and theirs receptors,no?