Freeboomboom
Banned
Wrong.
Some people just can’t read or watch a video over 30 sec. Typical TikTok generation.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
GH works better with higher estrogen?
- Thread starter isopropyl
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Some people just can’t read or watch a video over 30 sec. Typical TikTok generation.
Did a lot of research a few years ago, and I wont cite studies or use bloodwork beczuse 1. Im lazy and 2. Probably lost most of it.
But my conclusion was and still is : if you want high igf1, especizlly in the muscle : the recipe is : the highest estrogen you can handle without side effects + the highest amount of GH you can tolerate and or/afford + shitload of insulin + shitload of carbs. This while keeping your liver healthy, because this xombo is also a recipe for NAFLD. Pretty sure retatrutide added on that cocktail is the holy grail of gains. Well and tren because tren and hgh is synergistic. But well its tren. Even if it makes it even better, I wouldnt include it (or maybe 50 mg top/week)
But my conclusion was and still is : if you want high igf1, especizlly in the muscle : the recipe is : the highest estrogen you can handle without side effects + the highest amount of GH you can tolerate and or/afford + shitload of insulin + shitload of carbs. This while keeping your liver healthy, because this xombo is also a recipe for NAFLD. Pretty sure retatrutide added on that cocktail is the holy grail of gains. Well and tren because tren and hgh is synergistic. But well its tren. Even if it makes it even better, I wouldnt include it (or maybe 50 mg top/week)
Freeboomboom
Banned
But bro Ghoul said high e2 lowers igf bro Ghoul knows everything…
No he don’t.
You can tell them but they will still ignore it.
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Tbh, ghoul is probably the smartest guy on meso (despite his dumb behavior) but even when you're really good at what you're doing, you can be wrong sometimes. No ones perfect. But yeah, since he is mostly right about everything, that must be hard for him to admit when he's wrong (especially considering his arrogance).
ShutUpAndPump
New Member
Never used tiktok in my life,
Check your e2 troll, you seem a little too emotional
Well, I prefer my mood and/or emotions on high e2 rzther thzn low e2, but I guess it comes to personnal preferences. And thats just one feature of high e2, on a hezlth PoV, im pretty sure low e2 loses versus high e2.
Plus, even if its a "tabou" thing. When you've got symptoms of low e2, you're fucked. Only increasing your e2 can unfuck you. Even a potent dose of adderall cant pierce the soulless lethargic pos of an humain being i am at low E2.
High e2 ? Our pharmacopea has a lot of things that works to treat the symptoms (that doesnt involve lowering your e2).
Freeboomboom
Banned
I can agree he probably knows how to use Google and Chatgpt but i doubt any real life knowledge, didn’t he just start with gh? Probably not even close to a bodybuilder still in every thread giving everyone advice in everything and thats dangerous because he is wrong very often but his pride and need for dopamine to ”feel good” can harm others.
I saw him tell a guy who drop a vial mixed hgh on the floor its useless and janoshik already proved this years and years ago it does not even close to degrade a tiny tiny bit, complete bullshit.
I wouldn’t advice anyone to not double check everything he says.
Attachments
Janoshik was talking about purity/dimmer if I remember. Ghoul was more like "it increases agregates, agregates increases immunogecity and potential risk of getting neurodegenerative disease blabla" which, even if this field is still new and lack scientific consensus, is right, according to the few pappers we have. But yeah he is fearmongering too much for something that even if its true, is not THAT horrible.
So imo, no ones was wrong here.
Ghoul
Member
Listen you fucking retard, you're the one whose knowledge comes entirely from watching TikTok videos.
Women have GH levels 2 to 3 times higher than men, and IGF lower than men, UNTIL they reach menopause, then IGF increases because the IGF suppressive effects of estrogen are reduced.
Even women with pituitary tumors that cause elevated GH often still have normal IGF because estrogen suppresses IGF production. UNTIL they reach menapause, estrogen levels drop, IGF is no longer suppressed, and acromegaly symptoms begin to develop.
This has been know for 60 years.
Estrogen from ANY source suppresses IGF.
Frontiers | Interpreting growth hormone and IGF-I results using modern assays and reference ranges for the monitoring of treatment effectiveness in acromegaly
Standard treatment for acromegaly focuses on the achievement of target absolute levels of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor (IGF-I). The app...
www.frontiersin.org
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Freeboomboom
Banned
Dumbest kid on MESO.Listen you fucking retard, you're the one whose knowledge comes entirely from watching TikTok videos.
Women have GH levels 2 to 3 times higher than men, and IGF lower than men, UNTIL they reach menopause, then IGF increases because the IGF suppressive effects of estrogen are reduced.
Even women with pituitary tumors that cause elevated GH often still have normal IGF because estrogen suppresses IGF production. UNTIL the hit menapause, estrogen levels drop, IGF is no longer suppressed, and acromegaly symptoms begin to develop.
View attachment 343888
View attachment 343889
This has been know for 60 years.
Estrogen from ANY source suppresses IGF.
Frontiers | Interpreting growth hormone and IGF-I results using modern assays and reference ranges for the monitoring of treatment effectiveness in acromegaly
Standard treatment for acromegaly focuses on the achievement of target absolute levels of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor (IGF-I). The app...
Can never admit even when he is wrong.
Bloodwork dont lie, Ghoul does.
Everyone in this thread is against you on this, post whatever bullshit you want that won’t make the bullshit you believe the truth. Higher e2 in men taking test and gh will result in higher igf.
Ghoul
Member
Prove this claim, or let everyone see what a lying scumbag you are.
Want to rectify one thing : optimal isnt the highest e2 you can tolerate. Its a bit over the reference range. Thats high e2 according to Bw, but you can call if whatever you want. The thing is : high e2 : higher igf1, higher igfbp1, higher igfbp3. I think the one that binds the most of igf1 is igfbp3 (70-75%) rest is mostly igfbp1. Exogenous insulin will heavily decrease the latter, leaving a good portion of igf1 bound, but unbouding around 20% of igf1, which is a lot since an healthy adult has 95%+ of his igf1 bound.
Sorry for the mistake.
Sorry for the mistake.
Freeboomboom
Banned
Bitch run test and gh go do bloodwork, up the test dose and do bloodwork and see your igf increase.
You are probably not even going to the gym wannabe science kid.
There is a difference between total igf1 and free igf1. A quite dramatic one tbh.
People don't appreciate the details of reversible protein binding. Almost everyone still is confused on SHBG vs TT vs FT.
No way this will get worked out on a forum. Been watching this play out for last 7 years.
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
I remember what you are talking about. It was damaging the fragile peptide which can be confirmed by a specialized testing(NMR) he is avoiding.
The guy is a loser.
Thread is open and projects have started if anyone interested in building more momentum there. Spaceman donated to the first project! Thanks Spaceman.
Ghoul
Member
Lol, I never said a dropped vial was useless.
But integrity was never your strong point.
Freeboomboom
Banned
Listen you fucking retard, you're the one whose knowledge comes entirely from watching TikTok videos.
Women have GH levels 2 to 3 times higher than men, and IGF lower than men, UNTIL they reach menopause, then IGF increases because the IGF suppressive effects of estrogen are reduced.
Even women with pituitary tumors that cause elevated GH often still have normal IGF because estrogen suppresses IGF production. UNTIL they reach menapause, estrogen levels drop, IGF is no longer suppressed, and acromegaly symptoms begin to develop.
View attachment 343888
View attachment 343889
This has been know for 60 years.
Estrogen from ANY source suppresses IGF.
Frontiers | Interpreting growth hormone and IGF-I results using modern assays and reference ranges for the monitoring of treatment effectiveness in acromegaly
Standard treatment for acromegaly focuses on the achievement of target absolute levels of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor (IGF-I). The app...
Can’t stop laugh at this idiot trying to show evidence higher e2 in men taking test and gh will suppress igf by posting about women.
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
I never said it made it useless moron
I said you claimed it would damage it. Jesus Christ you are idiotic.
Post in thread 'Hgh vial fell down, throw away or still good?' Hgh vial fell down, throw away or still good?
You should really get off the computer sometime
