VZ12
New Member
No, I see it here: http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/Female_Hormone_Testing.php
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
First cycle, Please input
- Thread starter VZ12
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Boilermech
New Member
Ouch. It's on the front page of the site under the most requested tests. With no discount it's $62.99
Steve_Rogera
New Member
Found it. Thanks
VZ12
New Member
Will it show free test? etc.?
TexAg
New Member
X2
If you have properly dosed TC and you hit the weights hard you should put on 15-20 pounds easy. Dbol makes my liver numbers crazy, fuck orals. About the only one I would consider nowadays is Anavar which wouldn't be a bad substitute for the Dbol IMO.
VZ12
New Member
How much Dbol were you using/for how long?
TexAg
New Member
50mgs.. started Dbol and 500 mgs of Test E from day one. Got bloods at about 6 weeks and my liver numbers were all fucked up. Ended up getting multiple bloods from my doc because of that. Interestingly enough, my liver numbers would spike post workout. My AST numbers and ALT were both out of range. I didn't tell the doc what I was doing.. the doc attributed to post workout. This is what he sent me. Never touched orals again after that.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/
Ozzy619
New Member
You don't like tbol dude? I do like anavar the best but tbol is a close second as far as an oral goes.
You're going to hear a lot of differing opinions about adex, hcg dosages, what orals and how long to take. I agree that .25mgs eod is good, if sides get bad you can go up to .5mgs eod, just depends on you and how you feel. I also like to taper off everything including pct. There's a lot of opinions, gotta to find what works best for you. That's the beauty of a cycle log, you get alot of good feed back.
TexAg
New Member
If I could take orals without them throwing off my numbers i'd have no problem. I have never done Anavar or any orals for that matter after my Dbol experiment. I don't think Anavar fucks with your liver that much so that's why I would consider taking that in the future.
VZ12
New Member
Good advice.
4leafclover
New Member
If mass is what you are looking for running an AI during your entire cycle will cut some potential mass off from the table, as estrogen is needed in muscle building Llewellyn (2010). If you are cutting, then an AI daily might be worth it, as it reduces water retention and lower estrogen means less conversion to fat (a bi-product of high estrogen).
Time for an opposing viewpoint...
As for my opinion, I hardly run an AI on cycle, this is just what I was taught. I run 18 week cycles, and I use less than 4 pills on average for the entire cycle. Test ranges from 500-800 mg per week. At 500 mg, I rarely see any gyno sides, usually when I am stacking an oral and another compound, I almost never need an AI at all when on test only. When I do use an AI, I run it EoD for 1 week, then discontinue, .5 mg of Adex is my preference.
Time for an opposing viewpoint...
As for my opinion, I hardly run an AI on cycle, this is just what I was taught. I run 18 week cycles, and I use less than 4 pills on average for the entire cycle. Test ranges from 500-800 mg per week. At 500 mg, I rarely see any gyno sides, usually when I am stacking an oral and another compound, I almost never need an AI at all when on test only. When I do use an AI, I run it EoD for 1 week, then discontinue, .5 mg of Adex is my preference.
I don't think that Llewellyn was suggesting that high E2 is needed to add mass. I have slightly high E2 while running .25mg of adex EOD. As long as you are not crashing your E2, I think some AI is just fine. Better than gyno and backne.
4leafclover
New Member
Yes he did, he specifically states to not run an AI if mass is your goal, I'll find the page sometime today, but he did specifically state you dont' have to run an AI/SERM unless gyno was encountered.
4leafclover
New Member
HuckingFuge
New Member
For a guy on his first cycle, many of the sides from E2 might be mistaken for normal steroid sides. Once again, bloods should be done to determine how you aromatase the extra test.
I'd rather run a low dose AI, and see how bloods look, than skip the AI and wait till my skin breaks outs, my nips start hurting, and my prostate swells up.
Clover and Hucking, what kind of e2 levels do you guys get without AI's?
I'm sure I'd be 200+ if I skipped it. A small dose, .25 EOD of adex ,has me at 45, still plenty of e2 and minimal sides.
I'd rather run a low dose AI, and see how bloods look, than skip the AI and wait till my skin breaks outs, my nips start hurting, and my prostate swells up.
Clover and Hucking, what kind of e2 levels do you guys get without AI's?
I'm sure I'd be 200+ if I skipped it. A small dose, .25 EOD of adex ,has me at 45, still plenty of e2 and minimal sides.
4leafclover
New Member
45 isn't plenty when you are looking for optimal bulk, when your test ranges should be 5000+. You should have higher than the upper limit for males (200). 50 is the lower range, and 200 is the upper range in normal men. I don't see any sides at the 300 mark, the unit of measurement is pmol/l, unless the measurement you are referring to is pg/ml, then disregard my comments. Also, each body is different, I have a high tolerance to gyno (lower tolerance to nandralone compounds).
Its not hard to notice the onset, your nipple puffs out way before any gyno is present, you begin to itch, like a burning itch, this is also present before any gyno. Even if you get a lump, it is easily reversible with the AI or SERM, and a lump is not full blown gyno, just the first stage. You would not want to let it progress beyond this point, but from the time you get a lump you can still expect 1-2 weeks before actual gyno is developed, and it is still reversible at this point.
IMO it is far better to understand what is happening on a mind/body connection than it is to rob yourself of gains "just in case". If you don't learn to manage sides through self diagnosis, how can you hope to ever actually gauge sides from multiple compound stacks?
This is why it's so important (and recommended by most competent users of AAS) to get used to one compound at a time. So you can learn to recognize and manage the sides. You spend all this effort in diet and training, why throw away gains and important lessons by not utilizing every hormone level in your body to optimal potential.
I think I am beating a dead horse every-time I post this information, folks will just come on and recommend using an AI/SERM right out the gate with no actual foundation for this information, other than AI's and SERMS do prevent/retard gyno, but they ignore the potential harmful side-effects of a lack of estrogen.
Its not hard to notice the onset, your nipple puffs out way before any gyno is present, you begin to itch, like a burning itch, this is also present before any gyno. Even if you get a lump, it is easily reversible with the AI or SERM, and a lump is not full blown gyno, just the first stage. You would not want to let it progress beyond this point, but from the time you get a lump you can still expect 1-2 weeks before actual gyno is developed, and it is still reversible at this point.
IMO it is far better to understand what is happening on a mind/body connection than it is to rob yourself of gains "just in case". If you don't learn to manage sides through self diagnosis, how can you hope to ever actually gauge sides from multiple compound stacks?
This is why it's so important (and recommended by most competent users of AAS) to get used to one compound at a time. So you can learn to recognize and manage the sides. You spend all this effort in diet and training, why throw away gains and important lessons by not utilizing every hormone level in your body to optimal potential.
I think I am beating a dead horse every-time I post this information, folks will just come on and recommend using an AI/SERM right out the gate with no actual foundation for this information, other than AI's and SERMS do prevent/retard gyno, but they ignore the potential harmful side-effects of a lack of estrogen.
4leafclover
New Member
Also, your skin breaking out is not due to estrogen buildup, nor your prostate, those are other mechanisms related to steroids.
My current e2 level on cycle is 45 pg/ml with a reference range of <= 39 pg/ml
45 pg/ml = 165 pmol/l
My first cycle had me at 140 pg/ml, or 513 pmol/l
Both cycles with a test serum of 4300.
I did not have any major signs of high e2 at those high levels, just increased acne and bloat.
This was with a very small aromasin dose, of 3mg a day.
I'd still rather run a small dose of AI, and be on the look out for signs of low E2 until I do bloods.
The alternative is to be on the lookout for signs of high e2, which are more unpleasant than those of low e2.
IT does take some time to learn how your body reacts to E2 levels, but while learning I think a conservative dose of AI is a safe way to go.
45 pg/ml = 165 pmol/l
My first cycle had me at 140 pg/ml, or 513 pmol/l
Both cycles with a test serum of 4300.
I did not have any major signs of high e2 at those high levels, just increased acne and bloat.
This was with a very small aromasin dose, of 3mg a day.
I'd still rather run a small dose of AI, and be on the look out for signs of low E2 until I do bloods.
The alternative is to be on the lookout for signs of high e2, which are more unpleasant than those of low e2.
IT does take some time to learn how your body reacts to E2 levels, but while learning I think a conservative dose of AI is a safe way to go.
4leafclover
New Member
Acne is from androgens stimulating sebaceous glands in the skin to make more sebum. The higher the androgen use, the higher the chance of this.
Prostate enlargement has been linked to androgen increase as well, it correlates as best as can be told with increased androgen use.
Prostate enlargement has been linked to androgen increase as well, it correlates as best as can be told with increased androgen use.
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