did you guys adopt any training programs to prepare for a cycle?

[BBWfinesser]

kind of a newbie going into my second cycle, i was just curious, bc i gotta admit the first time i ran one i was not ready for how much more output i was capable of and had to scramble to adjust

 

[Sworder]

You don't need a program.

My working sets are 3-12 reps. I keep doing sets until I am "done." I do the exercises I feel give me the best connection with the muscle I am working.

That's it for me, that's how fancy I get and it works great. Do what works for you and as long as I get sore the next day I feel like I had a good work out.
Bodybuilders throughout time have been doing the same.

New age bodybuilders are all about selling a program.

 

[Eman]

It depends on your goals and how long you've been lifting.

If your goal is strength, at least partially, and you have encountered a bit of a stall - a program is a necessity.

I think you'll probably overall get more out of a program for hypertrophy also but if you're already getting results your happy with, don't fix what's not broken.

You also don't necessarily need to buy anything either. There are a lot of resources on the net that will give you an understanding of how to build your own programming. The nice thing about paid programs is that you tend to learn a lot about how to program yourself in the future by learning what works and doesn't.

 

[Sworder]

It depends on your goals and how long you've been lifting.

If your goal is strength, at least partially, and you have encountered a bit of a stall - a program is a necessity.

I think you'll probably overall get more out of a program for hypertrophy also but if you're already getting results your happy with, don't fix what's not broken.

Do you want to explain why a program is a necessity?

What can a person gain from a program that one cannot get otherwise?

I am asking respectfully, I know you won't have a response for those questions however so I don't mind you ignoring me. The more detail the better.

 

[Eman]

Do you want to explain why a program is a necessity?

For strength, you will be able to periodize your training to allow for strength gains over time. As I said, for a beginner it's not as necessary because you'll be able to gain strength for quite some time through linear periodization... Something you'd be doing by default.

What can a person gain from a program that one cannot get otherwise?

Failing to plan is a plan to fail. That's all a program is... It's a plan. Sure, go into the gym and do a few of these and a few of those... Most people will be fine with that but it's rarely optimal in the pursuit of actually getting better at something. Does any serious athlete just go to train and "wing it"? Typically not.

I am asking respectfully, I know you won't have a response for those questions however so I don't mind you ignoring me.

That would be a first.

 

[Sworder]

For strength, you will be able to periodize your training to allow for strength gains over time. As I said, for a beginner it's not as necessary because you'll be able to gain strength for quite some time through linear periodization... Something you'd be doing by default.

"Periodize?"
So you are saying that by spacing out the program you will gain more strength? By how many days? Is that the benefit?

Failing to plan is a plan to fail. That's all a program is... It's a plan. Sure, go into the gym and do a few of these and a few of those... Most people will be fine with that but it's rarely optimal in the pursuit of actually getting better at something. Does any serious athlete just go to train and "wing it"? Typically not.

A plan is different than a program. I described my plan, I forgot to mention I rotate the following chest/triceps/Back/biceps/legs. What could you improve with my plan to give me more gains in muscle or strength?

That would be a first.

It was just something I said

 

[Eman]

So you are saying that by spacing out the program you will gain more strength? By how many days? Is that the benefit?

No, I'm saying it's optimal to organize training by planning what stressor you place on the body and the frequency of the stressor. That's periodization.

A plan is different than a program. I described my plan, I forgot to mention I rotate the following chest/triceps/Back/biceps/legs. What could you improve with my plan to give me more gains in muscle or strength?

You tell me the difference then since you disagree. Tell me how a program isn't a plan.

You're giving me your training split... To be fair, that's a plan too but it's one piece of building a program and I'm not building you one because you don't need one, right?

Is your typical debate defense to play dumb?

 

[Test_Subject]

What I like to do is to periodize so that I gradually ramp up the intensity of my workouts to coincide with the effects of AAS.

For a 12 week training period I'll do the first four weeks at an intensity which matches my natty training then amp things up for the next four week block by adding sets, lowering rep ranges and using heavy weight.

For the last four week block I like to do maximal intensity with moderate weight and high volume, pushing to near failure with an emphasis on bar speed.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Make a split
choose some excercisew for each body part
use progressive overload
Week 1 Bench press 200lb 8 reps next training in week 2 you should be adding weight to the bar or more reps with the same weight
Thats apply with all excercises if you cant progress on one excercise you change it

Your last set on every excercise should always be to failrue or beyond (RP, Cluster,Drop sets etc)

number 1 rule progressive overload

Kinda like DC training Bloods and guts etc

 

[Sworder]

No, I'm saying it's optimal to organize training by planning what stressor you place on the body and the frequency of the stressor. That's periodization.

That's a really fancy way of saying a preset weight and "RxS."

That should limit growth if you are just setting the plan's boundaries so low.

You tell me the difference then since you disagree. Tell me how a program isn't a plan.

A program is something that can is more like "strategy" it's the near and also computing forward. A plan is more like a "tactic" which is like Right hook, left hook, uppercut.

You're giving me your training split... To be fair, that's a plan too but it's one piece of building a program and I'm not building you one because you don't need one, right?

I want to hear you explain it mainly. I am not going to try to convince you one way or another. But I wanted to hear your story.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

kind of a newbie going into my second cycle, i was just curious, bc i gotta admit the first time i ran one i was not ready for how much more output i was capable of and had to scramble to adjust

I think its possible that if you went out and studied for a decade and got a PhD in exercise science and intentionally forgot all that you learned and were perceptive enough and diligent enough in your own training experiments you may just finally be in a position to be satisfied with your knowledge.

 

[Eman]

That's a really fancy way of saying a preset weight and "RxS."

That should limit growth if you are just setting the plan's boundaries so low.

No. A part of periodization, whether it's linear, undulating, etc is that you're altering your frequency, volume and intensity until you overload and force adaptations.

This is mainly strength logic but it can be applied to hypertrophy also... The goal being that you get near or achieve modest overtraining before a deload. That's how you force adaptation and progress.

If you're thinking of a program that prescribed a set number of reps and sets with no RPE considered, no frequency/volume/intensity adjustments, etc... Well, you aren't looking at a very good program or just a very novice one. John Meadows for instance includes many of the concepts above including hypertrophy tactics like rest pause, supersets, etc that will also force adaptations.

 

[Sworder]

No. A part of periodization, whether it's linear, undulating, etc is that you're altering your frequency, volume and intensity until you overload and force adaptations.

Intensity? What does that have to do with anything? When you say intensity that refers to the duration of rest between sets? The only thing that will do is increase your HR. Studies have shown that "intensity" has nothing to do with results.

Until I overload? What is that?

Force adaptation?? What are you talking about? You use these words that I think Mac111 taught you and they don't mean anything...

This is mainly strength logic but it can be applied to hypertrophy also... The goal being that you get near or achieve modest overtraining before a deload. That's how you force adaptation and progress.

Overtraining? Oh even "MODEST" overtraining... There are different levels or something that doesn't even exist? Overtraining isn't a thing, it is basically if you are working out when you are sore. And only idiots do that..

Deload? Lol you are so full of yourself.

Force adaptation again? What is that?


Progress? I am getting plenty of progress doing things my way. Your program stuff sounds like a crock of sh!t

If you're thinking of a program that prescribed a set number of reps and sets with no RPE considered, no frequency/volume/intensity adjustments, etc... Well, you aren't looking at a very good program or just a very novice one. John Meadows for instance includes many of the concepts above including hypertrophy tactics like rest pause, supersets, etc that will also force adaptations.

Lol you are so full of sh!t and you are talking nonsense. Many of the things you suggest has studies proving that it doesn't work...

This program stuff you are talking about is all marketing man. Nobody has ever needed "a program" it's for noobs that don't know how to lift and these pompous morons like yourself are trying to sell some sort of snake oil.

Sorry about calling you a moron I don't know what other word to use. Both you and Mac use these words that you think mean something but it doesn't... You think that if you use big words people think you know something they don't.

You can't explain why a program is beneficial in 3 posts because it isn't. It's a huge crock of shit and it's been a trip listening to you.

 

[VaDImadi]

You don't need a program.

My working sets are 3-12 reps. I keep doing sets until I am "done." I do the exercises I feel give me the best connection with the muscle I am working.

That's it for me, that's how fancy I get and it works great. Do what works for you and as long as I get sore the next day I feel like I had a good work out.
Bodybuilders throughout time have been doing the same.

New age bodybuilders are all about selling a program.

I agree with all this

Currently i am on cycle, my first in about 3 years

Im doing 350mgs test E and 8iu hgh per day

I always put it all into the gym, by the time i leave i really do feel done, the next day comes however and i am rarely sore. If i am sore it is minor. Makes me think i could possibly not be doing enough

Im aware already there isnt direct correlation between soreness and results, and i am on a good amount of hgh, but still

How sore do you get?

 

[Sworder]

Im aware already there isnt direct correlation between soreness and results, and i am on a good amount of hgh, but still

Of course there is!
Soreness is the pain you get from your muscle fibers being broken. When they are repaired they are made stronger and bigger.

If you don't break any fibers you don't grow any muscles. That's basic gym 101.

Eman is on some bro-science stuff. There is no scientific evidence to support what he is saying.

 

[VaDImadi]

Of course there is!
Soreness is the pain you get from your muscle fibers being broken. When they are repaired they are made stronger and bigger.

If you don't break any fibers you don't grow any muscles. That's basic gym 101.

Eman is on some bro-science stuff. There is no scientific evidence to support what he is saying.

Even if you squat big numbers

If you did 500 bodyweight squats now in a row, stopping as needed, id bet you were sore as hell tomorrow

Soreness is related to doing something what your body isnt used to, doesnt mean you grow, as far as i recall

If you google, all articles, videos etc all seem to be in agreement that soreness does not mean muscle growth, same as lack of soreness does not mean lack of muscle growth

 

[Test_Subject]

Intensity? What does that have to do with anything? When you say intensity that refers to the duration of rest between sets? The only thing that will do is increase your HR. Studies have shown that "intensity" has nothing to do with results.

Until I overload? What is that?

Force adaptation?? What are you talking about? You use these words that I think Mac111 taught you and they don't mean anything...


Overtraining? Oh even "MODEST" overtraining... There are different levels or something that doesn't even exist? Overtraining isn't a thing, it is basically if you are working out when you are sore. And only idiots do that..

Deload? Lol you are so full of yourself.

Force adaptation again? What is that?


Progress? I am getting plenty of progress doing things my way. Your program stuff sounds like a crock of sh!t



Lol you are so full of sh!t and you are talking nonsense. Many of the things you suggest has studies proving that it doesn't work...

This program stuff you are talking about is all marketing man. Nobody has ever needed "a program" it's for noobs that don't know how to lift and these pompous morons like yourself are trying to sell some sort of snake oil.

Sorry about calling you a moron I don't know what other word to use. Both you and Mac use these words that you think mean something but it doesn't... You think that if you use big words people think you know something they don't.

You can't explain why a program is beneficial in 3 posts because it isn't. It's a huge crock of shit and it's been a trip listening to you.

Dude... Are you having a bad day or something? Because the you're arguing with some pretty fundamental training concepts.

 

[T&H]

Dude... Are you having a bad day or something? Because the you're arguing with some pretty fundamental training concepts.

The guy's a friggin idiot. I have to come in to every thread and say it because he posts in many threads just looking to disagree, argue, then turn it around on the other guy.

And lmao at his overtraining statement, he really is out there.

 

[Sworder]

Dude... Are you having a bad day or something? Because the you're arguing with some pretty fundamental training concepts.

Lol like that time in the frontloading thread? Haha, no. Again, I am so sorry about that.

Those fundamental concepts are not based on science.

If you want to talk about it we can. I want to break it down to know exactly where "the strength" gains from "a program" comes. There is no answer, you are just going to be spinning around and around like Eman does saying dumb terms.

A "program" isn't a thing in science, it's man made. It's BS!

Read my previous questions that I asked Eman, if you want to answer them go for it!

When you are reading this do you think Eman has a point? That he has a bunch of studies that supports what he says? Cuz that's not the truth!

The thing is, you guys LISTEN and ACCEPT "bro-science" as truth. Read text books and studies for your information and stop listening to "Emans" and "Mac111s" "information..."

Effects of Different Weight Training Exercise/Rest Intervals
Effects of Different Weight Training Exercise/Rest... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research
ABSTRACT: This study investigated the effects of a high volume 5-wk weight training program and different exercise/rest intervals on measures of power, high intensity exercise endurance (HIEE), and maximum strength. Subjects, 33 weight trained men (M age 20.4±3.5 yrs), were divided into 3 equal groups. The groups used the same exercises and set-and-repetition scheme. Rest intervals were 3 min for Gp 1, 1.5 min for Gp 2, and 0.5 min for Gp 3. Pre/post changes were analyzed using G × T ANOVA. Peak power, average peak power, and average total work, as measured during 15 five-sec cycle max-efforts rides and the 1-RM squat, increased significantly (N = 33, p < 0.05). The vertical jump and vertical jump power index did not show a statistically significant change. The 1-RM squat increased significantly more in Gp 1 (7%) than in Gp 3 (2%). Data suggest that, except for maximum strength, adaptations, to short-term, high-volume training may not be dependent on the length of rest intervals.

This study investigated the effects of a high volume 5-wk weight training program and different exercise/rest intervals on measures of power, high intensity exercise endurance (HIEE), and maximum strength. Subjects, 33 weight trained men (M age 20.4±3.5 yrs), were divided into 3 equal groups. The groups used the same exercises and set-and-repetition scheme. Rest intervals were 3 min for Gp 1, 1.5 min for Gp 2, and 0.5 min for Gp 3. Pre/post changes were analyzed using G × T ANOVA. Peak power, average peak power, and average total work, as measured during 15 five-sec cycle max-efforts rides and the 1-RM squat, increased significantly (N = 33, p < 0.05). The vertical jump and vertical jump power index did not show a statistically significant change. The 1-RM squat increased significantly more in Gp 1 (7%) than in Gp 3 (2%). Data suggest that, except for maximum strength, adaptations, to short-term, high-volume training may not be dependent on the length of rest intervals.

 

[Eman]

You can't explain why a program is beneficial in 3 posts because it isn't. It's a huge crock of shit and it's been a trip listening to you.

It's been a trip listening to you too, fella... These last few posts of yours have been emotional in the most cringeworthy way. I have no idea why you think I'm making things up - I think it's because you just don't follow... For instance, intensity has nothing to do with time between sets, it is the amount of weight you lifted. It's not like I'm making up these words - I'm just repeating vocabulary that would come out of any strength textbook.

You are very much deluded if you think that any accomplished strength athlete goes into the gym and just "wings it". I'll add all of this to the rest of the weird ass shit you post.